Trying to find a clue......

NB said:

Hello,

I graduated from high school last year, and now I am off to find an apartment. I started adding up
the costs of living alone and I realized what an incredible hassle a car would be to maintain.

bicyclinglife.comPracticalCyclingOpen ↗

Hi Nick, Sounds like you've made an excellent decision! See if your local library has the book
"Effective Cycling" by John Forester. If you tell us where you are geographically perhaps someone
from this group can point you to local resources. If your city has a cycling advocacy group you can
find other like minded people, especially if there are bad cycling conditions in your city that you
need to collaboratively try to influence change.

You mention wanting to invest in a "really good bike". If you are cycling for transportation, you
may want to consider theft as a factor in buying a bike. Even with a good lock, if your bike looks
tempting to bike thieves they will be able to get it. Of course its always nice if your job allows
you to bring your bicycle inside the building.

Ideally when looking for an apartment, you can find something that will be close to where you
work, where you "play", and public transit as a bicycle backup. That makes it much easier to live
car-free. And somewhere that allows for good bicycle routes between where you live and places
you'd want to go. If you are cycling in conditions you don't like every day you won't want to keep
it up for long.

Here's a bicycle commuter link for Toronto, Canada - some of it is specific to Toronto but much of
its tips can be applied universally sunnybrook.utoronto.cacyclingOpen ↗

Good luck! Tanya

"NB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<JBega.219108$L1.41792@sccrnsc02>...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I graduated from high school last year, and now I am off to find an apartment. I started adding up
the costs of living alone and I realized what an incredible hassle a car would be to maintain. I
have had previous interest in cycling, but now its become an fiscal opportunity as well as one of
interest. I was looking around for a good primer on bicycles and cycling as a means of
transportation. I can't seem to have too much luck on my own. Can someone please point me in the
right direction? I am really starting to hope to just invest in a really good bike and use it as
my transportation.

TIA, Nick

Tanya Quinn <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Ideally when looking for an apartment, you can find something that will be close to where you
: work, where you "play", and public transit as a bicycle backup. That makes it much easier to live
: car-free. And somewhere that allows for good bicycle routes between where you live and places
: you'd want to go. If you are cycling in conditions you don't like every day you won't want to keep
: it up for long.

Funnily enough, apartments in places like that tend to be expensive :-)

Living a reasonable distance from everything could be a good choice, since then, where ever you go
with the bike you get a good exercise. At first you can use bike for the trip once a week and after
some years a dozen times a week.

Check out the other Usenet groups like rec.bicycles.misc.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

NB said:

Quoted message said:

I graduated from high school last year, and now I am off to find an apartment. I started adding
up the costs of living alone and I realized what an incredible hassle a car would be to maintain.
I have had previous interest in cycling, but now its become an fiscal opportunity as well as one
of interest. I was looking around for a good primer on bicycles and cycling as a means of
transportation. I can't seem to have too much luck on my own. Can someone please point me in the
right direction? I am really starting to hope to just invest in a really good bike and use it as
my transportation.

I have been a year-round transportational cyclist in southern Ontario, Canada for about 4 years.
I could fill pages with information, but perhaps you could post here or email me with what you
want to know.

Thanks to everyone who has given me input thus far, it has been really helpful! Someone asked where
I am located for more specific help. I live in Rockford, Il. Its Il's 2nd largest city, and it is
located in northern central Il. I have found one group online so far, the Blackhawk Bicycle and Ski
Club (BBSC).

Jay - After doing research on taking up cycling as a way of permanent transportation I have a few
things I feel unanswered....

Now that I want to make a serious investment into a bike and equipment, how do I figure out
which bike I should get? What websites are best for ordering and reviewing bikes/equipment?

How much of an advantage does one get by wearing cycling clothes? If I am going to travel medium
distances (10-30 miles) should I wear them then change into the appropriate clothes of my
destination? What do you other commuting cyclists do as far as clothing?

When riding on roads, what is the highest mph rated road that you would recommend riding on? Or
is it just anything other than highways? [I plan to start by taking longer trips in my city at
first, because I want to get used to road riding through neighborhood streets than jumping
straight to major roads.]

"Jay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NB said:

Quoted message said:

I graduated from high school last year, and now I am off to find an apartment. I started adding
up the costs of living alone and I realized

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an incredible hassle a car would be to maintain. I have had previous interest in cycling, but
now its become an fiscal opportunity as well

as one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of interest. I was looking around for a good primer on bicycles and

cycling

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as a means of transportation. I can't seem to have too much luck on my

own.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can someone please point me in the right direction? I am really

starting to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hope to just invest in a really good bike and use it as my

transportation.

Quoted message said:

I have been a year-round transportational cyclist in southern Ontario, Canada for about 4 years. I
could fill pages with information, but perhaps you could post here or email me with what you want
to know.

NB said:

Jay - After doing research on taking up cycling as a way of permanent transportation I have a few
things I feel unanswered....

Now that I want to make a serious investment into a bike and equipment,

My freshman year of college, I had a dormmate who was a serious cyclist and owned a very expensive
road bike. He wanted to ride it around campus as his primary transportation. He tried camouflaging
it with a plain paint job, but it looked like a very expensive road bike with a plain paint job. It
still stuck out among the beaters the rest of us were riding.

He ended up buying a beater for basic transportation around campus, and only took his expensive road
bike out for serious rides.

I recommend that you do likewise. Get a basic, solid, inexpensive bike. For basic transportation,
it's more important that it be reliable. Part of reliability is still being there--and still being
intact--when you come out of the store, or wherever it was you needed to go.

And don't forget transportation-oriented accessories like fenders, lights, an emergency kit, racks,
panniers, rain gear, etc.

Quoted message said:

How much of an advantage does one get by wearing cycling clothes? If I am going to travel
medium distances (10-30 miles) should I wear them then change into the appropriate clothes of
my destination? What do you other commuting cyclists do as far as clothing?

I wear normal streat clothes. For medium distances (i.e., my daily commute), I take the train and
ride to/from the station at each end. It's easy when there are bike racks on every train. Otherwise,
I'd need to invest in a folding bike that I could carry on board.

Quoted message said:

When riding on roads, what is the highest mph rated road that you would recommend riding on?
Or is it just anything other than highways? [I plan to start by taking longer trips in my city
at first, because I want to get used to road riding through neighborhood streets than jumping
straight to major roads.]

The speed limit isn't the only issue. There are expressways (speed limits of 45+ mph) with wide
shoulders that are nicer to ride on than city streets (speed limits of 25 mph) with no shoulder,
narrow lanes, and parallel parking right next to the outermost lane.

And sometimes you have no choice. Between the train station and my job are a major freeway and a
waterway. There are only a couple (relatively large) roads that cross these obstacles.
--
Darin McGrew, [email hidden], rahul.netmcgrewOpen ↗ Web Design Group,
[email hidden], htmlhelp.comhtmlhelp.comOpen ↗

"I can take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once."

Thanks once again... I have been looking at pretty expensive bikes and drooling, but I wasn't taking
in the reality that you mentioned with having a "too expensive" bike for the given environment.
Sorta put me back down to earth. Which reminded me to ask something else:

What do you recommend as far as security goes? What lock/chain systems work and which ones don't?

"Darin McGrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NB said:

Jay - After doing research on taking up cycling as a way of permanent transportation I have a
few things I feel unanswered....

Now that I want to make a serious investment into a bike and

equipment,

Quoted message said:

My freshman year of college, I had a dormmate who was a serious cyclist

and

Quoted message said:

owned a very expensive road bike. He wanted to ride it around campus as

his

Quoted message said:

primary transportation. He tried camouflaging it with a plain paint job, but it looked like a very
expensive road bike with a plain paint job. It still stuck out among the beaters the rest of us
were riding.

He ended up buying a beater for basic transportation around campus, and only took his expensive
road bike out for serious rides.

I recommend that you do likewise. Get a basic, solid, inexpensive bike.

For

Quoted message said:

basic transportation, it's more important that it be reliable. Part of reliability is still being
there--and still being intact--when you come

out

Quoted message said:

of the store, or wherever it was you needed to go.

And don't forget transportation-oriented accessories like fenders, lights, an emergency kit,
racks, panniers, rain gear, etc.

Quoted message said:

How much of an advantage does one get by wearing cycling clothes? If

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am going to travel medium distances (10-30 miles) should I wear them

then

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change into the appropriate clothes of my destination? What do you other commuting cyclists do
as far as clothing?

I wear normal streat clothes. For medium distances (i.e., my daily commute), I take the train and
ride to/from the station at each end. It's easy when there are bike racks on every train.
Otherwise, I'd need to invest in a folding bike that I could carry on board.

Quoted message said:

When riding on roads, what is the highest mph rated road that you

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recommend riding on? Or is it just anything other than highways? [I plan

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

start by taking longer trips in my city at first, because I want to get

used

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to road riding through neighborhood streets than jumping straight to

major

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

roads.]

The speed limit isn't the only issue. There are expressways (speed limits of 45+ mph) with wide
shoulders that are nicer to ride on than city

streets

Quoted message said:

(speed limits of 25 mph) with no shoulder, narrow lanes, and parallel parking right next to the
outermost lane.

And sometimes you have no choice. Between the train station and my job are a major freeway and a
waterway. There are only a couple (relatively large) roads that cross these obstacles.
--
Darin McGrew, [email hidden], rahul.netmcgrewOpen ↗ Web Design Group,
[email hidden], htmlhelp.comhtmlhelp.comOpen ↗

"I can take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at

once."

Quoted message said:

Now that I want to make a serious investment into a bike and equipment, how do I figure out
which bike I should get? What websites are best for ordering and reviewing bikes/equipment?

It depends on how far you plan on commuting, what the road conditions are like where you commute,
what else you want to use the bike for (off roading, touring, etc. - though you may want a separate
"fun" bike), and especially the conditions you have for securing the bike. Above all you want
something comfortable. But you really don't need to make a big investment. Many people commute on
cheap beater bikes picked up second hand. I commute on a basic mountain bike I purchased used four
years ago and replaced the tires with wide slick tires. I personally would not feel comfortable
using a racing bicycle for a commuting bicycle because the roads I ride tend to have curb cuts,
potholes, and streetcar tracks. Having wider tires is also nice for winter road conditions.

Quoted message said:

How much of an advantage does one get by wearing cycling clothes? If I am going to travel
medium distances (10-30 miles) should I wear them then change into the appropriate clothes of
my destination? What do you other commuting cyclists do as far as clothing?

In terms of speed? For commuting in the city not much. I find the biggest bottleneck in terms of
timing is traffic lights. But its important to be comfortable in what you are riding in, and it
depends on how much you sweat and the appropriate dress code where you are going. When I worked
about 8 km/5 miles from my house (mostly flat) and casual dress code I would wear whatever I would
wear to work. My new job is 16 km/10 miles uphill (I sweat) with business casual dress, so I wear
comfy cycling clothes and bring my clothes in my backpack, and change just inside the building at
the washroom. There's no shower but I bring deodorant with me and can sponge off a bit in the
washroom cubicle. For cycling clothes, it doesn't need to be fancy. In the summer I wear spandex
shorts, and in the other seasons I wear lycra pants with nylon fronts to stop the wind and for any
mud. A good windbreaker/waterproof jacket is a necessity for the rain as well. For running errands I
always wear whatever since speed is not of big concern.

Quoted message said:

When riding on roads, what is the highest mph rated road that you would recommend riding on?
Or is it just anything other than highways? [I plan to start by taking longer trips in my city
at first, because I want to get used to road riding through neighborhood streets than jumping
straight to major roads.]

I'm most comfortable with roads that may have higher speed limits but are reasonably busy in terms
of traffic so congestion keeps the speed not very much higher than the bicycle. Its easiest to ride
with the least speed differential, espeically when the roads are narrow. However with nice wide
roads and paved shoulders its pleasant to ride on 80km/h/ 50 mph roads. Neighbourhood streets for
bike commuting tend to have the problem of a lot of stop signs and speed bumps and other traffic
calming measures (which also slows you down on the bicycle). My favourite streets to ride on are
lesser used wider roads with stoplights often parallel to the main road. It will probably take a
while to find the optimum routes.

But that's the fun of it too - you don't have to take the same route every day. Sometimes a route is
better on a particular day. The route I ride to work is reasonably quiet during the early morning
but a real zoo of parallel parking and shopping in the evening or weekend, so I take a different
route then. There are a few ways I have of getting home - I'll go through the ravines during the
summer when I have time to spare because its relaxing, if its night time (be sure to get lights for
your bike to be seen after dark!) I like a particular street that has a great view of the city, if
I'm feeling traffic avoidant I'll take a much longer route that goes on almost all trails.

Happy cycling! Tanya

NB said:

What do you recommend as far as security goes? What lock/chain systems work and which ones don't?

Have you heard the 40# rule? A bike and its lock together will weigh 40#. Thus, a 40# bike needs no
lock, a 35# bike needs a 5# lock, and a 20# bike needs a 20# lock. :-)

Seriously, it depends on where you're leaving your bike, and how attractive your bike is to thieves.

I have a heavy steel cable and a big padlock, but I haven't used them for a couple years because I
park my bike in a secure storage room at work and in the garage at home.

If you're really concerned about your bike being stolen, the best advice I've heard is to use two
different kinds of locks. All bike locks can be broken easily with the right tools, but if you have
two different kinds of lock, then a potential thief would need two different tools.

And don't forget to lock (or take with you) anything with a quick release: wheels, seat, etc.

PS: Please don't quote the entire message below your response. See
cs.tut.fibrox.htmlOpen ↗
--
Darin McGrew, [email hidden], rahul.netmcgrewOpen ↗ Web Design Group,
[email hidden], htmlhelp.comhtmlhelp.comOpen ↗

"You learn nothing new the third time a mule kicks you in the head."

Many thanks on all of the responses so far! I really appreciate it!

And now for more questions......

-Are there any panniers that can be unattached from the bike and used as a backpack or as a
sling-pack? I really need to get one, I just really don't like the idea of leaving it and the things
inside it at a bike rack.

-Any advice on whether to get a road bike or a comfort bike as means of transportation? The comfort
is obviously more comfortable while the road bike seems a lot more efficient. There are more pros
and cons of either choice, and I'm wondering if anyone can give some first hand experiance to help
out. I've considered getting some beater of a comfort bike then later deciding to invest in a road
bike for more serious trips but I just don't know if I can assume I will really need it later (and
if I don't then I should have invested in a better comfort bike). Any hints to cure this conundrum?
And are the tires on the comfort bike more like road or mtb tires?

-Does this Vandeman character realize by arguing like a child on these groups that he is only
hurting his cause? Which makes all the effort he puts forth come across as blatant masturbation of
self-righteousness. Sorta reminds me of this -
carcino.gen.nz463c5922Open ↗ And participating in his banter is an utter
waste of time, responding to him will not help getting him to leave. The only reason I mention all
this is because I constantly get excited when I see there are more unread messages in this group,
only to find it is just a false alarm compliments of another Mike-based flame war.

Anyway, TIA for any more help. All of you that have responded have definitely steered me in a better
direction and already helped me avoid making some stupid future mistakes.

Peace, Nick

NB said:

-Are there any panniers that can be unattached from the bike and used as a backpack or as a
sling-pack? I really need to get one, I just really don't like the idea of leaving it and the
things inside it at a bike rack.

try a "rack duffel" or "rack trunk". many of them have removeable shoulder straps.

see nashbar.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗

for one like the one i got from nashbar.

*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***

"NB" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

-Are there any panniers that can be unattached from the bike and used as a backpack or as a
sling-pack? I really need to get one, I just really don't like the idea of leaving it and the
things inside it at a bike rack.

Jandd has a duffel rack pack and a commuter briefcase pannier that might interest you, both with a
shoulder strap:

jandd.comdetail.aspOpen ↗

jandd.comdetail.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

-Does this Vandeman character realize by arguing like a child on these

<snip>

Adding the following to my score file has made rec.bicycles.soc readable:

[rec\.bicycles] Score:: =-9999 From: [email hidden] Xref: alt\.mountain-bike

-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
newsfeed.comnewsfeed.comOpen ↗ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== 100,000 Groups! - 19 Servers! - Unlimited Download! =-----

"NB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Many thanks on all of the responses so far! I really appreciate it!

And now for more questions......

-Are there any panniers that can be unattached from the bike and used as a backpack or as a
sling-pack? I really need to get one, I just really don't like the idea of leaving it and the
things inside it at a bike rack.

Peace, Nick

Cyclesmith (the cycling luggage dept. of Mountainsmith) used to make a backpack/pannier. It required
attachment of a mounting frame to your rear rack, then the bag clipped onto this frame, which stayed
on your rack. I've heard that this attachment system was sub-optimal. Shoulder straps were hidden
behind the back panel. Nice bags, typical Mountainsmith high quality. Maybe $150/pair as of 4-5
years ago. Not sure if these are made anymore.

Cheers,

Eric

And once more I will say - Thank you for all your input!

But I really would appreciate any hints, suggestions, opinions, etc on whether to get a road or a
comfort bike... here is the question from my previous post:

.-Any advice on whether to get a road bike or a comfort bike as means of .transportation? The
comfort is obviously more comfortable while the road .bike seems a lot more efficient. There are
more pros and cons of either .choice, and I'm wondering if anyone can give some first hand
experiance to .help out. I've considered getting some beater of a comfort bike then later .deciding
to invest in a road bike for more serious trips but I just don't .know if I can assume I will really
need it later (and if I don't then I .should have invested in a better comfort bike). Any hints to
cure this .conundrum? And are the tires on the comfort bike more like road or mtb .tires?

TIA

Peace, Nick

"NB" <[email hidden]> wrote in news😄Ksia.329840$6b3.1528149 @rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net:

Quoted message said:

.-Any advice on whether to get a road bike or a comfort bike as means of .transportation? The
comfort is obviously more comfortable while the road .bike seems a lot more efficient.

If you're talking about short distances (5 miles or less), the performance benefits of a road bike
will generally be negated by traffic lights. Your comment about "serious rides later" is something
you have to decide for yourself.

Ken

NB said:

But I really would appreciate any hints, suggestions, opinions, etc on whether to get a road or a
comfort bike

get a reasonably priced mountain bike in the $300-400 range from a bike shop, not walmart, where
they can't put forks on forward. have them replace the knobby tires with inverse tread "city" tires,
which are much more efficient. the fatter tires are much less prone to flats from broken glass than
skinny road bike tires.

learn to gear down and spin up. ride a lot. you'll feel better for it.

Nick,

I have a Trek 7700 comfort/hybrid bike. It allows me to ride in a more upright position and has 700c
wheels and gearing more like a road bike than a mountain bike. Therefore, I am relatively efficient
on the road but get to have a suspension system on the front forks and suspension seat post. I have
put about 1,100 miles on this bike and loved every minute of it. I am also going to start commuting
on the bike and am having more robust wheels built for the venture. I will ride about 20 miles a day
while commuting.

I am a heavy rider at 220 lbs and leaning over that mid life pooch on a road bike was not for me. I
also liked the gearing and shifting mechanism on the bike. The Trek 7700 is a bit more expensive but
I think they have similar models a bit cheaper.

The key here is to go ride a lot of bikes of both types and think seriously about what you plan to
do with the bike. If you are going to put panniers on the bike then a comfort may be better suited
depending on how much weight you plan to carry. Some road bikes have shorter chainstays and your
feet will hit the panniers when riding. Check this with any bike before buying. Fatter tires are ok
as long as not too fat. This is a personal opinion so please don't flame me on it. I had 700x38c
tires on the bike and am chainging down to
700x32c. It is not a huge difference but I like to run at 100+ psi in my tires to increase rolling
efficiency. If you are a heavy rider then larger tires may be more appropriate for you.

I am a novice and by no means an expert in this area. I am just passing on my experiences and
personal preferences.

Good luck and let us know what you get.

Bill

NB said:

And once more I will say - Thank you for all your input!

But I really would appreciate any hints, suggestions, opinions, etc on whether to get a road or a
comfort bike... here is the question from my previous post:

.-Any advice on whether to get a road bike or a comfort bike as means of .transportation? The
comfort is obviously more comfortable while the road .bike seems a lot more efficient. There are
more pros and cons of either .choice, and I'm wondering if anyone can give some first hand
experiance to .help out. I've considered getting some beater of a comfort bike then later .deciding
to invest in a road bike for more serious trips but I just don't .know if I can assume I will
really need it later (and if I don't then I .should have invested in a better comfort bike). Any
hints to cure this .conundrum? And are the tires on the comfort bike more like road or mtb .tires?

TIA

Peace, Nick