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Triton Sponge frames... titanium trials.

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
13 September 2007
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29 December 2007
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Sponge
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  1. But rather that ti will react with air at high temperatures. So you need
    to weld it in a sealed chamber with a different gas.
    But then at lower temps it is super stable. So there would be no need
    for paint. It doesn't corrode at all I think.🙂

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  2. Woow, this looks like the best trials frame ever :eek:
    Nice round crown and cool design.
    Plus strong and light at the same time.
    Nice work Sponge with this project, hope to see them soon on
    Municycle.com 🙂

    Peter M

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  3. Wow, that is a beautiful frame!

    Any chance of them making a 26"/29"/36" version? I'm definitely up for
    one if it can be produced.

    Ken

    --
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  4. So glad I didn't get an xtp!

    --
    wickedbob

    R.I.P JOHNNY HART[/B]
    [B]R.I.P MITCH HEDBERG

    Ducttape said:

    not gonna show you it tonight becasue I am going to play with it until I
    go to bed to get it just right....




    BEFORE YOU TYPE THAT SAYING I WAS EVIL CLICK
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  5. Awsome! they actualy rock! nice job sponge.
    I was wandering which hubs will fit on it?
    I'm gonna buy a new frame anyway soon as me old one is pretty much had
    it an is well wide, i'm really interested in buying one if you get more
    made for sale.

    leo

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  6. wow those look really nice this is almost the exact sort of frame i
    want. Man, too bad about that price though...... Do you know if they
    weigh more or less than an xtp?

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  7. feel the light said:

    So there would be no need for paint. It doesn't corrode at all I
    think.🙂

    Correct, no need for paint. Incorrect, it does corrode, just like
    aluminum and steel. However, for alu and ti, the corrosion forms what
    is called a "passivation layer"; only the top layer of the metal
    oxidizes, forming a hard, (mostly) clear protective layer, protecting
    the underlying metal. Anodization simply thickens this naturally
    occuring passivation layer through an electrochemical process.

    When steel corrodes, it forms pits on the surface and a thick layer of
    rust that flakes off. However, when mixed with chromium ("stainless
    steel"😉 the chromium forms this passivation layer for it, preventing
    rusting.

    --
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  8. I love it when good design meets good craftsmanship!

    When I first looked at the frame I thought the plate under the
    seat-tube might cause problems with creating compressed air/vacuum when
    inserting or removing the seatpost but then I realized it was a
    brainfart and that seatposts are hollow and it would be a non issue. I
    also realized that by removing that hollow space you likely just
    increased the lateral stiffness of the frame.

    That frame looks awesome! I don’t do much trials but if it came
    in a size suitable for a 26X3 GAZZ wheelset I would be very interested
    in getting one.

    Great work

    ERIC

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  9. sick...
    any idea on the weight compared to a KH or xtp?

    --
    torkerdx

    gordito8me said:

    it's like running across the highway at rush hour. Dangerous, stupid,
    but not really that fun.

    skianduniaddict said:

    never give 4 teenagers a camera... they go crazy

    johnfoss said:

    Yes, being old makes you stupid.


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  10. After hearing a few horror storyies from the bike industry, i dont quite
    trust Russian Ti.

    I'm verry intrested in the origin of these tubes

    --
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  11. What size bearing OD are the bearing holders for? I know you like
    Profiles so I'm assuming they're 40mm. great looking, I'm really
    looking forward to hearing how it actaully holds up.

    --
    maximus unius

    dunawan said:

    usually always


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  12. Oh man I want one.

    I would love it offered in RAW, no paint, just clear coat, or if Ti
    doesn't corrode at all, then no clear coat either.

    --
    Borgschulze

    'deviantART'
    (http://borgschulze.deviantart.com/)'Gravity'
    (http://videos.observedtrials.net/Gravity.wmv) is -not- the
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  13. Ti is weird stuff though. In the earliest days of using ti to make
    motorcycle headers, there was some great tragedies of art. It was a
    common practice with steel exhaust pipes to wrap them with an asbestos
    like insulator tape. This was done to prevent the cooling of the outer
    pipe from cooling the hot gas inside, which causes the gas to swirl
    around inside more and reduces flow, lowering power.
    But one of ti's quirks is it will not react with oxygen at reasonably
    low temps, and so it will look good forever. But around 800 something
    degrees (depending on the alloy), the ti suddenly oxidizes rapidly into
    a yellow powder !
    So until word of this became very common knowledge (never to wrap
    your ti exhaust pipes ), sometimes a race bike with a custom 10,000$+
    exhaust (they are coming down in price now) would teach it's owner an
    extremely costly lesson in chemistry. The pipes turn into dust !
    This is also why the ti frames of aircraft seem to disappear in
    intense fires, that couldn't melt steel. The alum turns into a white
    powder, and the ti frame into a yellow. So an entire aircraft really
    can just disappear, except for the steel or ceramic parts.
    And that is why it must be welded in a special atmosphere of inert
    gas, which is probably more expensive then the ti itself, making the
    fab setup.
    Gotta love that leftover Soviet cold war tech !🙂

    --
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  14. 1s^2 2s^2 2p^6 3s^2 3p^6 4s^2 3d^2(titanium) is so sexy.

    if a choice was this or the XTP, it'd definitely be this. if you decide
    to sell these frames to the public, you would have trouble keeping them
    in stock like feelthelight said.

    --
    zfreak220

    trials fund: $371.71/$228
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  15. Sponge said:

    Remember that topic I posted about crown ideas a while back? Well I'm
    sure quite a lot of you doubted that I'd ever get this done, but here's
    to prove the doubters wrong:

    [image:
    http://photofile.ru/photo/tritonbicycleco/2780243/64416070.jpg]

    [image:
    http://photofile.ru/photo/tritonbicycleco/2780243/64416077.jpg]

    [image:
    http://photofile.ru/photo/tritonbicycleco/2780243/64416072.jpg]

    [image:
    http://photofile.ru/photo/tritonbicycleco/2780243/64416079.jpg]

    [image:
    http://photofile.ru/photo/tritonbicycleco/2780243/64416082.jpg]

    OT4 Titanium, hand-made in the Triton factory in Russia. After I put
    forward my first design and after lots of small modifications after
    looking at and borrowing beneficial aspects from current frames on the
    market, I present to you the new Triton Sponge frame.

    Right now, I have no idea of retail price, but production models won't
    be made until these 2 have been given extensive testing and thrashing
    to see if it's up to the stresses of trials. I must emphasise that I
    myself am a trials rider and I designed this for trials (but also made
    it friendly for those who wanted to glide). The corners of the crown
    have been rounded so there is even less chance of getting leg-bash
    during sloppy sidehops. I've also included a small plate under the
    seattube neck so as to prevent grime and mud from burrowing itself into
    the frame's tubes.

    I know a lot of flatlanders will complain, but seriously, this wasn't
    designed for flat. It was designed for purely trials (but with a
    glide-able crown), I strongly wanted to avoid a simple round crown
    partly for aesthetic reasons and also because this crown design is one
    of the strongest I could go for considering the thickest tubing I could
    use was 1mm thick. A flat crown like on the Black domina or KH would
    not work well with 1mm thick tubing, hence I scrapped that idea a long
    time ago.

    The bearing holders look similar to those of the 2004 KH, as it would
    be so expensive to produce fully machined bearing holders (without any
    welds). I have put threads in the bottom half holders rather than those
    top half ones welded to the legs because, say if you strip threads
    somehow... (which is very hard to do with titanium compared to
    aluminium) then you wouldn't be totally screwed as you can just replace
    the bottom half holders. So this frame is therefore totally threadless,
    but incorporates a KH-style bearing holder system, (only reverse).

    I don't know the weights of these yet, but they are light for sure.

    Last of all, many thanks to Dmitry (a friend and Triton consultant),
    Michael (the engineer), and Andrei (the welder) for letting me
    materialise my ideas. 🙂

    I am expecting the retail price to be quite high, though I have no
    control over it. Definitely over £100 though, maybe similar price to
    the XTP... but to be honest, for a hand-made titanium frame, it really
    isn't too bad a price considering custom titanium bike frames can cost
    around £500-£1000!

    I'm not expecting or wanting this to be a mass-produced thing, just an
    option for the trials enthusiasts out there who want something quality.
    This is my contribution to the unicycle community, and I hope you share
    my interest and enthusiasm.

    Enjoy. 🙂

    NB: yes, it does look rather like the Quax alu frame! A pleasant
    surprise, when I first saw the frames.

    woow!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: I want one! how much in dolars??

    --
    UniDudeDX

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  16. I like Profiles yes, but I designed these for all the other hubs out
    there... i.e. Koxx, KH, Onza, Quax etc.. so it has 100mm spacing and
    42mm bearing slots.

    This frame was based around an ISIS hub, so it'll work with any hub
    that has 100mm bearing spacing an 42mm bearings (in theory). I can get
    them to work with my Profiles if i just wack a shim onto the bearings.
    To make this frame take 40mm bearings would be really silly indeed.

    right now, there will only be a trials frame.

    However regarding 'Russian Ti'... well, Triton is very credable in the
    biketrials world, they've made 26 and 20 inch biketrials frames none of
    which have broken in any form so far, plus they've made a few BMX
    frames too, none of which have failed either. So I'm pretty confident
    in Triton, plus they'll reweld it if anything does happen to go
    wrong... which is what these two here are for.

    --
    Sponge

    MSN: [email hidden] feel free to add🙂

    Quoted message said:

    *"Bikes are made to do trials, unis aren't."- Joe Hodges*

    Quoted message said:

    *"There is no reason to take skill level into account when making
    friends with someone."- Brandon Hoerres*


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  17. Although I admit I haven't spent the 20 minutes to do an online price
    search. My experience with motorcycles is that the metal is expensive,
    but the fabrication is really, really expensive. These welds look
    excellent IMHO. I can't imagine the Sponge would go to all this work in
    lay out and fabrication, and then somehow cut corners with crappy (is
    there such stuff ?) ti.
    The tech involved is actually quite old, being used in rockets,
    missiles and planes since at least the 50's I think. It's common on
    motorcycle parts for, high end racers, 20 years ago, and on mid range
    production parts (mostly exhaust and valves) for maybe the last 5 years
    or so.
    It's not so good for everything. It twists easier then steel, so you
    can't make transmission shafts or crankshafts out of it (steel would be
    lighter for the strength). But for connecting rods, it's the stuff
    (Carrillo, and other big buck after market race parts).
    If I were to hazard a dumb guess (I never let ignorance stop me), I
    would guess the big flaw in these, if they have any, is that the tube
    diameter is to small to be optimum for ti. When motorcycle axles switch
    the design from steel to ti, they use larger diameter. But Sponge is
    already into a serious testing phase. I will just guess that if there
    is a problem with ti frames, wider tubes may be better (to exploit the
    ti properties better).
    Consistently in motorcycle engineering , then you change the metal a
    part is made from, it becomes best to change it's shape.
    I am very excited about this project, the craftsmanship looks great,
    I bet the ti quality is just fine. It will be fun to see where Sponge
    goes with this.
    Now that I am remembering old cool stories, Joel Robert, world
    motocross champion riding Suzuki in 1971, used his own money to have a
    frame secretly made out of ti. Testing showed it sucked though. Light
    as hell , but flexed to much to handle well with a powerful motor. He
    used the same tube size as a cromoly frame, painted black. He wanted it
    to be his secret weapon. I doubt unis will be troubled by flex, but
    we'll see what sponge has to say later.
    A great historic time for unis!

    --
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  18. Borgschulze said:

    I would love it offered in RAW, no paint, just clear coat, or if Ti
    doesn't corrode at all, then no clear coat either.

    onelesscar said:

    Incorrect, it does corrode, just like aluminum and steel. However, for
    alu and ti, the corrosion forms what is called a "passivation layer";
    only the top layer of the metal oxidizes, forming a hard, (mostly)
    clear protective layer, protecting the underlying metal. Anodization
    simply thickens this naturally occuring passivation layer through an
    electrochemical process.

    Just anodize it.

    feel the light said:

    And that is why it must be welded in a special atmosphere of inert gas,
    which is probably more expensive then the ti itself, making the fab
    setup.

    And not just any inert atmosphere! Nitrogen is the typical "inert"
    atmosphere, but titanium will actually burn in nitrogen, forming
    titanium nitride.

    feel the light said:

    But one of ti's quirks is it will not react with oxygen at reasonably
    low temps, and so it will look good forever. But around 800 something
    degrees (depending on the alloy), the ti suddenly oxidizes rapidly into
    a yellow powder !

    Huh? Titanium oxidizes into a yellow powder? 800 F or C?

    Titanium dioxide is white...and burns at about 600 C.

    --
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  19. And hadn't bothered to do 20 minutes of internet research, I am more
    honest then I am good. But yeah, I betcha you can't wrap your ti
    headers or they will oxidize, and fast. Like one lap fast. Totally
    ruined by the heat. I heard yellow dust, but who knows what alloy in
    this story ? It's a special metal.
    In uni use, I am sure that the cool rainbow weld colors could be
    attained (I know a bit about ti jewelry)
    I was joking about how it would need to be made into a muffler to make
    the frame look like that.
    For sure, a broken ti frame will need to be re welded in an
    exceptional facility. I have no idea what gas they use to form the
    atmosphere for this welding. I am an expert mig welder ( a machine that
    puffs co2 argon around a welding wire to create a good atmosphere to
    allow steel to weld well). This is why ti welding is not done in normal
    shops. Mig welders, and other common welders will not work.A sealed
    chamber of some gas? is required.

    --
    feel the light
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  20. So far the frame looks realy nice. But for me the most important
    question is the weight because I dont care how strong it is as long as
    it is something like the nimbus frames. I think most people dont give
    much pressure on the frame.

    Is it possible to get the frame in long neck?

    --
    Lutz

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