tricky; club insurance

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

At our AGM last week the old chestnut about TPL was brought up ; it
seems there is a club rule that members (but only competing members,
whatever that means; competing in a TT / RR or for AUK points?) but
also all members over 18 must be covered by TPL ergo be members of CTC
or BC. We know that BC (like AUK) only covers events organised under
its auspices. What I'm getting at is; "does a cycling club out on a
club run need to have third party liabilty for a ride on the public
highway?", unless we were all wearing club kit how would they know?
thoughts please

Why on earth should we be? We have a right to cycle on the public highway.
If we choose to do that with our friends we still have a right to do it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,;
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(,_....----''' (,..--''

MartinM said:

At our AGM last week the old chestnut about TPL was brought up ; it
seems there is a club rule that members (but only competing members,
whatever that means; competing in a TT / RR or for AUK points?) but
also all members over 18 must be covered by TPL ergo be members of CTC
or BC. We know that BC (like AUK) only covers events organised under
its auspices. What I'm getting at is; "does a cycling club out on a
club run need to have third party liabilty for a ride on the public
highway?", unless we were all wearing club kit how would they know?
thoughts please

I thought being a member of BC covered /you as individuals/ like CTC
for any riding you do. Though I am out of date as to what level. IIUC
it does depend on which level you are at though, gold silver and
bronze have differing benefits.

As for whether a club needs insurance for a club run that /is/ rather
tricky....
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Simon Brooke said:

If we choose to do that with our friends we still have a right to do it.

If a cycling club is affiliated to British Cycling, it is covered by
BC's Third Party Liability cover

"BENEFITS: THIRD PARTY PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE
All Clubs, Teams and Associations in England other than school clubs
(unless the extra £20 for liability cover is paid) are automatically
covered for Public Liability Insurance, with an indemnity limit of
£10,000,000. The policy indemnifies the club / team in respect of its
legal liability for accidental loss or damage to Third Party Property
or accidental bodily injury or death to Third Party Persons.
For more details on the extent of cover and over exclusions please
contact membership services or download a copy from
www.britishcycling.org.uk."

Likewise, any individuals who are Silver or Gold BC members are also
covered for Third Party Liability (Silver membership is £32/year [well
spent in my opinion]). Bronze membership does not come with TPL.
Quoting again from BC website "This essential member insurance covers
non-competitive, social, leisure and utility cycling and also
competitive cycling in events held under the auspices of British
Cycling."

A recent incident springs to mind when thinking about this topic:
http://www.londondynamo.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=516
the jist of it is that while on a group ride in Richmond Park, one of
the London Dynamo riders clipped another and ended up veering into the
path of an oncoming car. In this case, the rider came off very much
the worse and ended up in a coma.

But just suppose that the car driver had swerved to avoid the cyclist
and ended up striking a tree leaving them with head injuries that would
require medical assistance for the rest of their lives. Could the
driver sue the individual or the group of riders as a whole, and where
would this leave them if none of them had suitable third party cover?
Food for thought.

Cheers
Bronzie

MartinM said:

At our AGM last week the old chestnut about TPL was brought up ; it
seems there is a club rule that members (but only competing members,
whatever that means; competing in a TT / RR or for AUK points?) but
also all members over 18 must be covered by TPL ergo be members of CTC
or BC. We know that BC (like AUK) only covers events organised under
its auspices. What I'm getting at is; "does a cycling club out on a
club run need to have third party liabilty for a ride on the public
highway?", unless we were all wearing club kit how would they know?
thoughts please

My club has an additional subscripton to pay for affiliated CTC
insurance for those member who do not have their own CTC membership.

Bronzie said:

If a cycling club is affiliated to British Cycling, it is covered by
BC's Third Party Liability cover

yes we were discussing this last night, we are and we are. That's good;
can save on CTC membership next year (I know , I know)

in message <[email hidden]>, Bronzie

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

If we choose to do that with our friends we still have a right to do it.

If a cycling club is affiliated to British Cycling, it is covered by
BC's Third Party Liability cover

"BENEFITS: THIRD PARTY PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE
All Clubs, Teams and Associations in England other than school clubs
(unless the extra £20 for liability cover is paid) are automatically
covered for Public Liability Insurance, with an indemnity limit of
£10,000,000. The policy indemnifies the club / team in respect of its
legal liability for accidental loss or damage to Third Party Property
or accidental bodily injury or death to Third Party Persons.
For more details on the extent of cover and over exclusions please
contact membership services or download a copy from
www.britishcycling.org.uk."

Well, ours is, and I'm glad it is; but at the same time I'm damned if I see
why it should be required of us.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
;; languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their
;; pockets for new vocabulary -- James D. Nicoll

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

Bronzie said:

If a cycling club is affiliated to British Cycling, it is covered by
BC's Third Party Liability cover

yes we were discussing this last night, we are and we are. That's good;
can save on CTC membership next year (I know , I know)

As far as I understand it our BC affiliation only covers us when competing
in a BC recognised event or on organised club activities.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

At our AGM last week the old chestnut about TPL was brought up ;

snip loads about getting insurance for 'Club Runs'.

Quoted message said:

Why on earth should we be? We have a right to cycle on the public highway.
If we choose to do that with our friends we still have a right to do it.

Although there is only a slight chance of a claim against the Club as an
whole, it is enough of a risk to warrant the insurance premium, or as
another poster has pointed out, the BCF insurance should cover it.

Typically, usual Saturday/Sunday Club runs are organised well in
advance, and, being as they are organised, the Club must take some
responsibility for the members interests.
If it is truly a gathering of fellow cyclists, with no Club ties, then
insurance would be up to the individual.

As the Club is involved, they must demonstrate a duty of care to the
members/riders. If it can be shown that the Club did not show enough
forethought to their run, and for example, a new member fell off the
side of a mountain, because he didnt know the road, and no-one had
warned him of the danger, then if there were no insurance cover, and a
claim was made against the Club, any fees awarded would have to be paid
by the members (being as it is rare for their to be a 'rich' cycling
club).For big claims this would mean bankruptcy for many club members.
In real life, this scenario would be very rare,and possibly has never
happened, but the risk is there, so the easiest reponse is for a Club to
acquire relevant insurance.
(I also hate the 'claim culture' currently prevalent, but think it is
prudent to be covered for such eventualities)
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Simon Brooke said:

As far as I understand it our BC affiliation only covers us when competing
in a BC recognised event or on organised club activities.

which presumably a club run is? I wasn't advocating expecting to be
covered as a private rider by my club insurance; I'd like to belong to
CTC but with membership of 2 caving and 2 cycling clubs (AUK being one)
all renewable in January (which is the month after Xmas BTW) something
has to give ;-(
I was riding on Sunday with a club member who now lives in Switzerland;
TPI (in the form of a fee and smaller sticker on the frame) is
compulsory for bikes there.

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

As far as I understand it our BC affiliation only covers us when
competing in a BC recognised event or on organised club activities.

which presumably a club run is?

Yes, certainly.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I can't work yanks out......
;; Why do they frown upon sex yet relish violence?
;; Deep Fried Lettuce

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

As far as I understand it our BC affiliation only covers us when
competing in a BC recognised event or on organised club activities.

which presumably a club run is?

Yes, certainly.

there's a further twist ; apparently it only covers non club members on
a club event; club members need gold or silver individual membership ;-(