Tri bike for training ?

Jimmy said:

Hi All,

Just wondering what bike people ride for training and if anyone rides a
different bike for training and racing ie: a road bike v's a tri bike.
I'm riding a cervelo p3, which has a fairly steep seat angle and I'm
planning to join a group for training pretty soon and so I'm not sure
how appropriate the cervelo is for group riding (given its sensitive
handling). Anyone have any views ? Also, is it sensible to train on a
road bike which is different to the tri bike geometry and thus maybe
recruiting different muscles ?

Thanks,

Jimmy

The answer is that there are probably people out there riding every
combination of bikes you can imagine. Personally I have one bike for
both training and racing. It's a road bike with tri bars on and the
only change I make is switching my heavy duty training tires for
something a little quicker on race day.

I know people who have 2 or 3 bikes for different purposes - road bike
for group rides, number 1 tri bike for races, number 2 tri bike for
solo training rides, etc. Great if you can afford it and feel the
need, but plenty of people do very well with only one bike in the
garage.

I go on group rides with people who turn up on tri bikes with pretty
sensitive handling and they cope fine although some riders will give
them a pretty wide berth. On specificity issues if you did train on a
road bike you'd want to still get plenty of sessions on the tri
geometry before racing. But then you'd want to do plenty of sessions
on that bike to get used to solo riding anyway.

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

As it should be. A group I used to ride with regularly was about half
road racers and half triathletes. The entire group would "school"
anyone who thought they could ride on the aerobars in the paceline.
No problem when they got to the front though (except that the drafting
advantage for the rider in the second slot would shrink
dramatically... I always ended up behind a tiny, strong triathlete who
liked to pull a long way... grrrrrr). ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

If you have a tri group, it is expected that you have tri bars and that
you will be riding in the tri position, and there is no problem.

Jimmy wrote:
Hi Jimmy,

Quoted message said:

Also, is it sensible to train on a
road bike which is different to the tri bike geometry and thus maybe
recruiting different muscles ?

*My opinion*

If you are only doing short tri's it probably won't matter, and you
wouldn't even need the cervelo.

If you are participating in longer tri's then it is a good idea to
practice what you will be doing on race day during training.

I never found a good seat position last year and I paid for it during my
race. Even a slight change in your seat position isn't a good idea a
month before a longer tri. I definitely felt the difference during seat
changes. Even if it felt better with the new position my other muscles
were not as strong as they were in the positions that I trained in the
most. Therefore, I would suggest getting the seat right (or bike choice
in your situation), early in the year and save all major changes for
early in the year, while keeping any bike and other gear similar as you
get closer to race date. This will also help you in your upper body area
as well because you will be able to hold the tri position a lot longer
if you are practicing the tri position in training.

However, it is ok to change bikes for purpose of cross training or
riding with your friends or the occasional hard biking session with a
road bike group.

Triathlete said:

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

If you have a tri group, it is expected that you have tri bars and that
you will be riding in the tri position, and there is no problem.

Assuming you AND the entire group of riders know precisely what you're
all doing. But if there's just ONE dingbat in the group, you could
end up losing enough skin to recover an atlas.

Watching the Olympic triathons in Sydney reinforced this for me.
World class athletes - dead easy course - pure carnage.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Triathlete said:

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

If you have a tri group, it is expected that you have tri bars and that
you will be riding in the tri position, and there is no problem.

Assuming you AND the entire group of riders know precisely what you're
all doing. But if there's just ONE dingbat in the group, you could
end up losing enough skin to recover an atlas.

Watching the Olympic triathons in Sydney reinforced this for me.
World class athletes - dead easy course - pure carnage.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

This is the same reason why I believe we should have either drafting and
non drafting races, or just non drafting races. A choice is nice, but
then so should the choice of bike if this is the case.

At this time in my life, I love triathlon as a non draft race for my own
"racing" so I wouldn't want to see it go. I love my tri group and their
tri bars and their acceptance of it all.

Triathlete said:

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

If you have a tri group, it is expected that you have tri bars and that
you will be riding in the tri position, and there is no problem.

Actually, it's a great opportunity to practise your legal drafting -
dead on the 7m spacing, you'll notice how much draft you get anyway. Our
group used to have a rule that if we were under 7m spacing, no tri bars
unless you're on the front.

Tam

Triathlete said:

Alexander Edward Petkus said:

Bikes with tri bars are not very appropriate for group rides, they are a
lot harder to control and depending on your brake/shifting set-up can be
downright dangerous in a paceline I guess if everyone else in your group
uses them then go for it but otherwise in my experience it is frowned upon.

If you have a tri group, it is expected that you have tri bars and that
you will be riding in the tri position, and there is no problem.

Actually, it's a great opportunity to practise your legal drafting -
dead on the 7m spacing, you'll notice how much draft you get anyway. Our
group used to have a rule that if we were under 7m spacing, no tri bars
unless you're on the front.

Tam

Thank you all for your comments - I pretty much had the same feeling
that a tri bike was not going to be appropriate for a roadie group.

I'm still really curious about the geometry issue - If I decide to ride
a lot with the roadie group on my road bike will I be training
different muscles than on my tri bike (73º v's 78º seat angle). The
next question I have is how do I configure my road bike so that I can
minimize any differences.

Thanks,

Jimmy

Jimmy said:

Thank you all for your comments - I pretty much had the same feeling
that a tri bike was not going to be appropriate for a roadie group.

Well hold on...

I was going to contribute earlier, but ran short on time, besides I
didn't want to start a flame war...

I regularly ride my Cannondale tri bike, which is fully kitted out with
Syntace C2 bars, Spinergy x-rev wheels, profile aero cage behind the
saddle etc. with road bike groups. I think the thing to say is that
generally they will feel uncomfortable if you ride with them, and will
feel especially uncomfortable if you use the aero bars.

Its up to you to prove you are safe, you can ride with a group, and
generally that means no aero bars. A co-triathlete once asked me while
out on a big roadie ride, 40+ people, is it ok if I use his tri bars,
my response without thinking was, sure, if you'd turn up to an orgy
without condoms!

The points the same. You might know you are safe, the others don't. You
might think you are safe, every ride is a test, unless you arrive back
safely you are not safe. You might think they are safe, but unless
you've ridden with each any everyone before, and you know they are
safe, then its not an acceptable risk.

Group riding is a relatively safe activity if everyone concentrates and
follows a few basic rules. It only takes a stone kicked up by a lead
rider, and a couple of people behind not paying attention to cause a
ripple effect that brings down half a dozen(err thats six) people
towards the back.

If you are not able to reach your brakes quickly enough becuase you are
on the tri bars, you might be one. Group crashes are often more painful
than solo ones, theres a lot of extra metal flying around in a group
pile up, even if your top end group does ride mostly carbon bikes...

Worse crime of all is if some road debris, a hole, or other reason
comes up ahead that you'd normally dealt with no problem, but becuase
you didn't see it until right on top, wobble slightly becuase you are
on your tri bars, you bring down people behind you.

So, go ride your tri bike in the roadie group. If its a B or B+ or
faster ride, hang off the back by 5ft-7ft, you probably will anyway,
still don't use your tri bars. Watch the group ahead. See what they do,
how they react etc. If you are a strong rider, go on the front, but
make sure you can stay there for at least 1/2 mile, or however long the
group normally take pulls from the front. There is nothing worse than
some tri geek on a new bike who comes belting past, then can't hold the
speed for more than about 100ft...

Make sure all your moves are calm and measured, always look around
before pulling out or in, don't use your breaks unless you have to,
keep your cycling going, even easy rather than idleing...

and heck enjoy it. There is nothing more invigorating than getting out
with a good B+ roadie group, averaging along at 22MPH, then after a
while people start to crank up the speed, all of sudden you are doing
25MPH, 27MPH and it feels great, heck it feels easy... when you get to
the next set of lights having kept with the group you feel fantastic,
you've never cycled so fast, so far.

Then you remember, it was a group ride. DRAFTING SUCKS! Long live real
triathlon

Jimmy said:

Hi All,

Just wondering what bike people ride for training and if anyone rides a
different bike for training and racing ie: a road bike v's a tri bike.
I'm riding a cervelo p3, which has a fairly steep seat angle and I'm
planning to join a group for training pretty soon and so I'm not sure
how appropriate the cervelo is for group riding (given its sensitive
handling). Anyone have any views ? Also, is it sensible to train on a
road bike which is different to the tri bike geometry and thus maybe
recruiting different muscles ?

Thanks,

Jimmy

I have a multi sport bike that i race on and a road bike i train on,I
ride my tri bike 2 times a week,one short time trial and usually a
brick on Saturday.I use my road bike for a long ride on Sunday and one
short ride during the week,
The Alabama Tri-man
http://www.tri-mansworldmailboxofficesupply.com/