trekking poles

Janice White1 said:

Now for the question. Do the spring loaded ones help. I
have been told they tend to give a false impression of the
ground surface when you least expect it so that would be a
bad point for me with a knee that sometimes gives way.

I'd say that's a bit over-dramatic, to be honest. When I've
used them I haven't really had any problems, but having said
that I didn't really see any useful point either. The stated
reason is to absorb shocks which would otherwise transfer to
your arms, but I find if you use them efficiently there
isn't any shock loading so you're just paying extra for
something that you don't need and is one more moving part to
go wrong. For comparsion purposes on a gear test I once
spent a 10 hour day on the hill across varied terrain with a
rigid pole in one hand and the antishock version of the same
in the other. I couldn't tell any comfort difference at all
at the end of it. If you do bang your poles into the ground
while holding the grip tight rather than let them swing into
place holding loosely on the strap you might get a problem,
but I don't and I don't. IMHO it's better to save your money
and get your technique sorted (it doesn't take long).

See personal.dundee.ac.ukpoles.htmOpen ↗ for
some tips on usage.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Janice White1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct newsgroup to make
this enquiry but hopefully someone will come back to me. I
am not really an avid walker due to a dodgy knee. At the
moment I use

two

Quoted message said:

old walking sticks or pick up any likely aid along the
way. I have heard

that

Quoted message said:

trekking poles would be a lot better so I am in the
process of buying

them.

Quoted message said:

Now for the question. Do the spring loaded ones help. I
have been told

they

Quoted message said:

tend to give a false impression of the ground surface when
you least

expect it

Quoted message said:

so that would be a bad point for me with a knee that
sometimes gives way. Any help would be appreciated. Jan

I've tried the static ones and the spring loaded ones and I
much prefer the spring loaded ones.

I used to have a dodgy knee, but a combination of cycling
and the use of spring loaded poles now means that my knee is
no longer dodgy!

The vast majority of people who claim the spring loaded ones
offer no advantage over static ones haven't actually tried
the spring loaded ones, although one prolific user of this
newsgroup claims to have conducted a straw poll of sprung
pole users while he was out walking (as you do)

I bought a pair of Leki sprung poles with the medical
grip and found they were a great help. As I said, I no
longer need them

Pete

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last few
years. I find that it does'nt make any difference for me on
walkable terrain. However, when descending 1000 metres or
so, with a heavy rucksack and with terrain that is
frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre at a time,
the sprung loaded ones are much better for the arms.

Janice White1 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040528044706.00101.00000014@mb-
m22.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct newsgroup to make
this enquiry but hopefully someone will come back to me. I
am not really an avid walker due to a dodgy knee. At the
moment I use

two

Quoted message said:

old walking sticks or pick up any likely aid along the
way. I have heard

that

Quoted message said:

trekking poles would be a lot better so I am in the
process of buying

them.

Quoted message said:

Now for the question. Do the spring loaded ones help. I
have been told

they

Quoted message said:

tend to give a false impression of the ground surface when
you least

expect it

Quoted message said:

so that would be a bad point for me with a knee that
sometimes gives way. Any help would be appreciated. Jan

I agree with Pete. I had a pair of anti-shock poles for
years, which I really liked (I left them on the ground when
packing the car at Drumochter, if anyone found them about a
year ago!). I replaced them with the cheaper, non anti-shock
ones and have found no difference worth speaking about. As
you're concerned about a pole 'giving way' (which it
sometimes does when leaning heavily on it coming down steep
ground - although in a controlled way), then save your money
and get the static ones.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Janice White1 said:

Now for the question. Do the spring loaded ones help. I
have been told

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tend to give a false impression of the ground surface
when you least

expect it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so that would be a bad point for me with a knee that
sometimes gives

way.

Quoted message said:

I'd say that's a bit over-dramatic, to be honest. When
I've used them I haven't really had any problems, but
having said that I didn't really see any useful point
either. The stated reason is to absorb shocks which would
otherwise transfer to your arms, but I find if you use
them efficiently there isn't any shock loading so you're
just paying extra for something that you don't need and is
one more moving part to go wrong. For comparsion purposes
on a gear test I once spent a 10 hour day on the hill
across varied terrain with a rigid pole in one hand and
the antishock version of the same in the other. I couldn't
tell any comfort difference at all at the end of it. If
you do bang your poles into the ground while holding the
grip tight rather than let them swing into place holding
loosely on the strap you might get a problem, but I don't
and I don't. IMHO it's better to save your money and get
your technique sorted (it doesn't take long).

See personal.dundee.ac.ukpoles.htmOpen ↗
for some tips on usage.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Following Pete's advice, I'd recommend you consider the Gipron poles from
Rock and Run.
rockrun.comtype.htmlOpen ↗

I've had a pair for several years and found them superb
value and rock solid. As an MS sufferer I lean on them
pretty heavily and as long as the locks are properly
adjusted there's no slippage.

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've tried the static ones and the spring loaded ones and
I much prefer the spring loaded ones.

That's fair comment - but could you elaborate on your
reasons so we can decide whether we are likely to share your
preference? And in what situations have you compared them -
terrain, river crossings, steep ground, load carried, etc.
Peoples' reasons for using poles also vary - helping with a
medical condition, preventing one, stability on difficult
terrain, help on ascents/descents, spreading the load on the
flat, photo monopod, dog deterrent, something to hold (not
joking), etc.

Quoted message said:

I used to have a dodgy knee, but a combination of cycling
and the use of spring loaded poles now means that my knee
is no longer dodgy!

Ecellent news! Having tried both types of pole, how do you
attribute improvements in your knees to sprung poles as
against any benefits the fixed ones might convey?

Quoted message said:

The vast majority of people who claim the spring loaded
ones offer no advantage over static ones haven't actually
tried the spring loaded ones, although one prolific user
of this newsgroup claims to have conducted a straw poll of
sprung pole users while he was out walking (as you do)

You sound sceptical but I can believe him. I had many such
conversations on the hill when I started using poles -
mostly initiated by others. As to "no advantage", many
contributors on the topic *may* not have experience of both,
but they give specific reasons for their choice which helps
the rest of us.

Quoted message said:

I bought a pair of Leki sprung poles with the medical grip
and found they were a great help. As I said, I no longer
need them

You did. But can you explain why people who use poles for
other reasons might share your preference?

Stuart

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The vast majority of people who claim the spring loaded
ones offer no advantage over static ones haven't actually
tried the spring loaded ones, although one prolific user
of this newsgroup claims to have conducted a straw poll of
sprung pole users while he was out walking (as you do)

My girlfriend's got a spring loaded pole which she
invariably forgets and leaves under the stairs. As I
remember I was hard pushed to tell the difference between
having the springy bit on or locked off. But then I haven't
been on a "How to use your walking poles in an efficient and
environmentally friendly way" course at my local outdoor
education centre and maybe it's a [censored] one anyway.

Pete said:

The vast majority of people who claim the spring loaded
ones offer no advantage over static ones haven't actually
tried the spring loaded ones,

I suppose I'll have to answer this then. I have spring
loaded ones which I can lock into a static position, so I've
tried them both ways. I find that I always prefer them in
the locked position, no matter what the situation.

I don't like the way the poles "give" when I place them on a
solid object like a rock and then lean my weight onto them.
When fine balance is important (such as when crossing a
river via rocks) a "bouncy" pole does not inspire
confidence.

When using the poles to help pull me up a steep hill, the
sprung poles seems to waste effort, since part of the effort
is used compressing the spring (reminds me of using a
bullworker).

Sometimes the lock slips so the poles revert to "bouncy"
mode and it always irritates me when that happens.
Fortunately the springs on my poles are harder than others
I've tried so they aren't very bouncy but I still don't like
the springs even so.

Paul
--
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photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

ann said:

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last few
years. I find that it does'nt make any difference for me
on walkable terrain. However, when descending 1000 metres
or so, with a heavy rucksack and with terrain that is
frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre at a time,
the sprung loaded ones are much better for the arms.

Are you seriously suggesting that you choose descent routes
which require you to *jump* a metre or so at a time, with a
heavy rucksack? I'm flabbergasted! I have never been forced
to do such a thing.

Probably the worst descents I can think of have been from
Tryfan. Once on the south face, which required a lot of
backward downclimbing, really good fun actually! Another
time down an exceedingly steep gully on the west face in
order to beat the fading light. Really knackered up my
knee that one.

Another was from Moel Lefn (North of Moel Hebog) which was
exceedingly painfull in the knees in spite of trekking pole
assistance.

The last one I can think of was an abnormal descent from
near Devil's Kitchen (in the Glyders) in which I literally
put my life in my hands as my brother indicated where I
should place my feet (how the hell he got down I will never
know) and luckily his suggestions seemed to be valid (I'm
sure I descended an overhang).

None of these required *jumping* anywhere.

Oh, I've just remembered another one, a seriously insane
descent of a tree'd cliff face next to Sgwd Einion Gam with
a rather fit friend. We used the trees as aids in our
descent and it was only possible through linking hands
between rock and tree handholds. One of those "can't believe
I ever did that scenarios". Yet we survived. And without any
*jumping!*

I guess that my point is this. I've descended some very
steep slopes in my time and I have *never* had to resort to
*jumping*. Either you have a very peculiar method of descent
or you just don't understand the basics of climbing, you
know that "three points in contact at all times" stuff?

I've never had to *bang* my poles and I don't anticipate
ever having to do so. When it gets that steep I'll put
my poles aways and use my hands. All a matter of
technique I guess.

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

I don't have much experience of the UK paths that you refer
to, as most of my walking is in the Pyrenees on paths
leading to peaks. Such paths were never `made` for walking
on, rather they are the easiest routes that allow you to
gain altitude. They are paths in the sense that they exist
as the usual dots on the walking paths and are labelled as
paths in the key. But a lot of the time you find yourself
hoping between very large stones, often on very steep
slopes. three points of contact is where the sticks come in,
so long as you know that the sticks lock properly and won't
collapse that is.

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ann said:

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last few
years. I find that it does'nt make any difference for me
on walkable terrain. However, when descending 1000
metres or so, with a heavy rucksack and with terrain
that is frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre
at a time, the sprung loaded ones are much better for
the arms.

Are you seriously suggesting that you choose descent
routes which require you to *jump* a metre or so at a
time, with a heavy rucksack? I'm flabbergasted! I have
never been forced to do such a thing.

Probably the worst descents I can think of have been from
Tryfan. Once on the south face, which required a lot of
backward downclimbing, really good fun actually! Another
time down an exceedingly steep gully on the west face in
order to beat the fading light. Really knackered up my
knee that one.

Another was from Moel Lefn (North of Moel Hebog) which was
exceedingly painfull in the knees in spite of trekking
pole assistance.

The last one I can think of was an abnormal descent from
near Devil's Kitchen (in the Glyders) in which I literally
put my life in my hands as my brother indicated where I
should place my feet (how the hell he got down I will
never know) and luckily his suggestions seemed to be valid
(I'm sure I descended an overhang).

None of these required *jumping* anywhere.

Oh, I've just remembered another one, a seriously insane
descent of a tree'd cliff face next to Sgwd Einion Gam
with a rather fit friend. We used the trees as aids in our
descent and it was only possible through linking hands
between rock and tree handholds. One of those "can't
believe I ever did that scenarios". Yet we survived. And
without any *jumping!*

I guess that my point is this. I've descended some very
steep slopes in my time and I have *never* had to resort
to *jumping*. Either you have a very peculiar method of
descent or you just don't understand the basics of
climbing, you know that "three points in contact at all
times" stuff?

I've never had to *bang* my poles and I don't anticipate
ever having to do so. When it gets that steep I'll put
my poles aways and use my hands. All a matter of
technique I guess.

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

ann said:

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last few
years. I find that it does'nt make any difference for me
on walkable terrain. However, when descending 1000 metres
or so, with a heavy rucksack and with terrain that is
frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre at a time,
the sprung loaded ones are much better for the arms.

Are you seriously suggesting that you choose descent routes
which require you to *jump* a metre or so at a time, with a
heavy rucksack? I'm flabbergasted! I have never been forced
to do such a thing.

I hesitated, but that seems to me the ideal way to finish
off your knee joints before you are 40!
--
Gordon

ann said:

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last few
years. I find that it does'nt make any difference for me
on walkable terrain. However, when descending 1000 metres
or so, with a heavy rucksack and with terrain that is
frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre at a time,
the sprung loaded ones are much better for the arms.

Jumping a metre with a heavy rucksack? It's a parachute you
want, not a stick..

Bernie

Pete said:

The vast majority of people who claim the spring loaded
ones offer no advantage over static ones haven't actually
tried the spring loaded ones,

Sorry, been there, done that, T shirt awaited from
printers... ;-)

Quoted message said:

although one prolific user of this newsgroup claims to
have conducted a straw poll of sprung pole users while he
was out walking (as you do)

Every time I've stopped and asked someone who claimed to
prefer the sprung ones were better, they were (IMHO) using
them rather inefficiently, picking them up with a hard grip
from the fist and pushing them down, rather than letting
them swing into place and loading them progressively through
the strap. If you do the former, sprung would be better I'd
think, but it's a case of "Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do
this!"; "Then don't do that"...

Quoted message said:

I bought a pair of Leki sprung poles with the medical grip
and found they were a great help. As I said, I no longer
need them

IME the grip makes little difference if you let the straps
take all the real weight and let the poles swing. It's not
only more comfortable but more effective. A bit of
technique renders fancy grips and shock absorbing springs
ineffective IMHO.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Paul Saunders said:

I don't like the way the poles "give" when I place them on
a solid object like a rock and then lean my weight onto
them. When fine balance is important (such as when
crossing a river via rocks) a "bouncy" pole does not
inspire confidence.

When using the poles to help pull me up a steep hill, the
sprung poles seems to waste effort, since part of the
effort is used compressing the spring (reminds me of using
a bullworker).

I'd go along with this. I use one sprung Leki which I
generally find a great help, except I'd prefer it wasn't
sprung for the same reasons. If you lean on the pole going
up a steep slope, then some of the energy expended goes to
compressing the spring, which is pointless in that
circumstance. I've meant to buy a static pole for a long
time, but I guess I'm too much of a cheapskate. ( The Leki I
use was a hand-me-down from my mother-in-law as it
happens..)

Bernie

Peter Clinch said:

IME the grip makes little difference if you let the straps
take all the real weight and let the poles swing. It's not
only more comfortable but more effective. A bit of
technique renders fancy grips and shock absorbing springs
ineffective IMHO.

Pete.

I've seen some with neoprene padding on the straps. This
sounds like an improvement over the usual webbing if you're
going to be putting weight there, but perhaps it's another
unneccesary improvement ?

The same pair were also sprung, but I couldn't tell if that
could be locked off.

-adrian

Bernie Hughes said:

ann said:

frequently necessitating down jumps of a metre at a time,
the sprung loaded ones are much better for the arms.

Jumping a metre with a heavy rucksack? It's a parachute
you want, not a stick..

Yes, I forgot to comment on that. The main reason for using
poles is knackered knees. The best way to knacker your knees
is to down jump a metre repeatedly with a heavy rucksack!

Paul
--
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I am 46 years old, I finished my knee joints off at 42! Once
when `skiing` in my walking boots, thinking that leki sticks
would stop me if I started sliding down the slope, the 2nd
time time picking up a baby.

Maybe, the word "jump" sounds a bit dramatic. What I mean is
that if you extend the sticks to their maximum, make sure
they lock properly, resting them where you want your feet to
end up, you can kind of let yourself fall (?) forward, maybe
not quite a meter, but a considerable drop. If the sticks
have suspension built into them you can move really fast,
very comfortably down a slope. You have to keep checking the
sticks to make sure they are locked and its a bad way to
descend if you are likely to fall over a cliff. You also
have to know when to change technique so that your wrists
don't start to suffer. Using the wrist straps to take the
strain of the wrists is not a good idea in this case as you
need to dissoasociate yourself from your sticks in the event
of a fall.

Gordon <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

ann said:

I have gone through a number of sticks over the last
few years. I find that it does'nt make any difference
for me on walkable terrain. However, when descending
1000 metres or so, with a heavy rucksack and with
terrain that is frequently necessitating down jumps of
a metre at a time, the sprung loaded ones are much
better for the arms.

Are you seriously suggesting that you choose descent
routes which require you to *jump* a metre or so at a
time, with a heavy rucksack? I'm flabbergasted! I have
never been forced to do such a thing.

I hesitated, but that seems to me the ideal way to finish
off your knee joints before you are 40!
--
Gordon

ann said:

Maybe, the word "jump" sounds a bit dramatic. What I mean
is that if you extend the sticks to their maximum, make
sure they lock properly, resting them where you want your
feet to end up, you can kind of let yourself fall (?)
forward, maybe not quite a meter, but a considerable drop.

I like this a whole lot more if the stick doesn't move
because there's play and a spring built in!

Quoted message said:

If the sticks have suspension built into them you can move
really fast, very comfortably down a slope.

If you learn to place, then load as a fluid motion then the
suspension is neither here not there, it's just something to
give you a less stable point of lean.

Quoted message said:

locked and its a bad way to descend if you are likely to
fall over a cliff. You also have to know when to change
technique so that your wrists don't start to suffer. Using
the wrist straps to take the strain of the wrists is not a
good idea in this case as you need to dissoasociate
yourself from your sticks in the event of a fall.

So why do skiers use wrist straps? You only really need
sticks to disappear completely if you're in something like
an avalanche, I think.

But it was radical downhill skiing where sprung poles first
came into use, I believe. If things are happening fast
enough then technique tends to go out of the window to a
degree, so banging things down to use brute power as a
substitute is quite likely. Having freely admitted that, I
think it's fair to say that such use isn't really on the
radar for the typical user of poles for walking.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

ann said:

Maybe, the word "jump" sounds a bit dramatic. What I mean
is that if you extend the sticks to their maximum, make
sure they lock properly, resting them where you want your
feet to end up, you can kind of let yourself fall (?)
forward, maybe not quite a meter, but a considerable drop.

I see what you're getting at. I occasionally step off a wall
or something in that way. Very convenient if you get the
technique right.

Paul
--
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