trek liquid vs. fuel - NEWBIE

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Why not just pour gas on the NG ;-)

Dan V

Garrett said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80
or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's
website and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems
that the Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

mtbr reviews needs to be taken with a BIG grain of salt. Try other search
modes, Treks have had serious chain suck issues in the past, among other
issues.

penny s

Dan V says:

Quoted message said:

Why not just pour gas on the NG ;-)

Says one with experience ;-)

Glad to see you survived Frances, Dan. Is it as bad down there as us Yankees
are being told?

Steve

Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?

No.

Quoted message said:

(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Marketing hype.

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Do yourself a favor. Buy a hardtail and learn to ride before delving
into the horrific world of low budget full suspension bikes.

JD

So is anybody actually going to answer the question? 🙂

In reverse order, because it makes sense to me ...

Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

A little history may be in order here. Once upon a time, there were
only (road)bikes. Then mountain bikes evolved. Since then the species
has further diversified ... a rough grouping follows
- cross country: off-road trail riding with a race emphasis. most race
courses are not as technical as some of the more difficult trails tend
to be (pulls head in to avoid singeing flames😉 so these bikes tend to
be light weight (may even be hard tail, see olympic races, many world
cup races) and limited travel (in the 80mm, 3 inch range), climbing is
where many races are won/lost:- since climing is inherently slower,
more time is spent climbing than descending and a performance
advantage here will result in a bigger lead than can be made on the
shorter (time wise) descents
- all mountain: off-road trail riding with more emphasis on
versatility and comfort on rougher trails. longer suspension travel
(100-125mm, 4-5inches) both ends. this means that they usually weigh a
little more than cross-country bikes
- freeride, aka black diamond: more emphasis on downhill performance,
although uphill riding may be necessary to get to where the fun is.
bikes are designed to be strong enough to handle jumps and drops.
travel is often in the 200-225mm, 8-9 inch range. inherently heavier
than either above.
- downhill: purpose built downhill race bikes. emphasis is heavily
(pun intended) towards downhill performance. since they don't tend to
be riden uphill, there are not many concessions to uphill performance.
- others: includes dirt jumpers, singlespeeds etc

These groups do not mean that a bike can't be used for other purposes,
just that their designs are not optimised for other things. For
example a BMX bike has been riden quite successfully in a 24hr race,
and there was a guy riding a heavy downhill bike in our local
cross-country race series (he was cheered for every lap/race he
finished)

as for the other question ...
Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?

that's impossible to answer for somebody else, sorry 😉
some extra information that might help you to come to a decision you
will be happy with for a long time

"pas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

mtbr reviews needs to be taken with a BIG grain of salt. Try other search
modes, Treks have had serious chain suck issues in the past, among other
issues.

I agree with Penny about mtbr. It is a useful source for information,
but too many of the reviews give 5 chillis to something that the
reviewer has had for only a week. I wouldn't make a purchase decision
based solely on mtbr reviews.

important factors include
- anticipated use (see above)
- rider size
- rider weight
- rider skills/experience
- bike fit: rough guess at frame size = (0.65 x inseam length) + 10cm
do a google search on "mountain bike frame sizing"
also see sheldon brown <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html>
and keith bontrager <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html> amoung
others

other sources of information
www.mountainbike.com
www.mbaction.com
mountain bike action magazine recently had a review of the trek fuel
(don't remember which number in the series
the ask rc section of the website also has good info

the trek fuel series are cross country race bikes.
the liquids are all mountain. I have an 03 liquid 20. since then the
series has expanded and diversified. the original series 10/20/30 were
all variable geometry. in 04 the series was changed to 10/25/30/55.
the 10 & 30 are variable geometry, but the 25/55 have stable platform
suspension systems. the 05 series will include a 65, with more
freeride style components.

stable platform suspension designs are supposed to minimise/eliminate
suspension bob while pedaling, while still allowing suspension to work
over bumps.
there are several different approaches, used by different
manufacturers
- virtual pivot point: use frame design, so that chain tension tends
to counteract rear suspension movment, eg Intense VPP, Rocky Mountain
ETSX series
- pneumatic valving: filters out inputs at pedalling frequency, faster
inputs compress suspension, eg Manitou spv forks and shocks,
Curnutt/Romic
- inertia valving: small mass in shock opens valve when shock moved up
from below (bump in ground), but stays closed when suspension
compressed from above (pedalling) eg Fox Teralogic systems

summary
- decide what kind of riding you want to do
- decide how much money you are willing to spend
- have an idea what size frame you are going to need
- come up with a short list of bikes to try
- go visit your local bike shops and see what they have
- try to ride a demo, on the kind of trail you will be riding

remember a great price doesn't equal a great deal unless you end up
with a bike that suits you and what you want to do

hope this helps

Ian M

JD said:

Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?

No.

Quoted message said:

(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Marketing hype.

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Do yourself a favor. Buy a hardtail and learn to ride before delving
into the horrific world of low budget full suspension bikes.

JD

Excuse me? Buy a hardtail? On top of the 3 I already own (the first
since 1992)? I guess it takes four to learn. Wow. Thanks for the advice.

[email hidden] (JD) wrote in news:ebf270c9.0409090828.6fc144c8
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor. Buy a hardtail and learn to ride before delving
into the horrific world of low budget full suspension bikes.

2nd. Very valuable advice!

Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor. Buy a hardtail and learn to ride before

delving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the horrific world of low budget full suspension bikes.

Quoted message said:

JD

Quoted message said:

Excuse me? Buy a hardtail? On top of the 3 I already own (the first
since 1992)? I guess it takes four to learn. Wow. Thanks for the advice

Let's see, you have "newbie" written all over your post and no mention
of owning any bicycles until this post. Study hard, you need it.

JD

Quoted message said:

Excuse me? Buy a hardtail? On top of the 3 I already own (the first
since 1992)? I guess it takes four to learn. Wow. Thanks for the
advice.

Hi Garrett,
From what you said, we had assumed that you were a complete newbie to
mountain biking in general. But if you have three hardtails, and have had
these for 12 years, one must wonder why you don't know the difference
between all-mountain and cross-country (also called XC).

All-mountain is best described as aggressive XC, where you go both uphill
and downhill, but with a little more emphasis on the downhill, meaning 3 or
4-foot drops at most (to a transition, of course). These bikes should be
light enough to pedal uphill, but burly enough to handle these bigger drops.

XC is more for lots of distance and smaller drops, or none at all.

As JD says, it's mainly marketing hype, and the term all-mountain was
created to satisfy those people who wanted to be bad-ass and ride a
"freeride" bike, but didn't want to be weighed down because they're closet
weight weenies.

As for me, I used to ride one of those "freeride" bikes but got rid of it,
and now I'm riding a hardtail that's 25% of my own weight 😉 And I love
it!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JD said:

Garrett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?

No.

Quoted message said:

(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Marketing hype.

Quoted message said:

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Do yourself a favor. Buy a hardtail and learn to ride before delving
into the horrific world of low budget full suspension bikes.

JD

Excuse me? Buy a hardtail? On top of the 3 I already own (the first
since 1992)? I guess it takes four to learn. Wow. Thanks for the advice.

See how hype works both ways?

"Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan V says:

Quoted message said:

Why not just pour gas on the NG ;-)

Says one with experience ;-)

Glad to see you survived Frances, Dan. Is it as bad down there as us

Yankees

Quoted message said:

are being told?

Steve

Thanks. Where I live in Lake Worth, power has been out since the storm, and
gas is largely unavailable, people can't get food from grocery stores
without waiting in 3 hour lines for canned food. Now, just as power is about
to be returned, another storm is potentially poised to do more damage....
I chose to go to a new office we are opening in Morristown Tennessee prior
to Frances, and have ridden Panther Creek's mountain bike trail, and Tsali
several times. I've always loved Tsali for high speed fun, and a good
workout. The area is so much prettier than any other place I have ever
ridden, this alone makes it great to visit.
And, I finally got to ride my Liquid 25 on some bigger hills---the downhills
were awesome, cornering excellent...The longer/steeper climb on the "Right
Loop" forced me into my granny gear and the shear weight of the bike with
its 2.4 inch Panaracer tires made getting to the top a real workout---I made
it, and was then happy I had an excuse to stop and wait for Sandra :-)
Again, the fast downhills made the harder work on the climbs worthwhile.

Regards,
Dan V

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Garrett,
I have a Liquid 25 for myself, and I got one for my girlfriend. I originally
bought mine because in January I was weighing 237, and a larger travel bike
allowed me to ride better. I am now just under 200 pounds, and the bike is
still awesome for high speed downhills and flats, as well as short fast
uphills....After several days in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina and
mountains of Tennessee, I will say that it is fine for me on long
climbs--though I would have to run maybe one or two gears easier than I
would on a light bike...My girlfriend weighs 132 pounds, and while she loves
the bike for the downhills and technical flats, she hates it on the long
climbs. For a 200 pound muscular rider, I don't see the liquid has enough
penalty weight to concern me, given the increased downhill speed and fun I
can get with it over a typical cross country bike with only 3 inches of
travel. And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride highly
technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear ;-) The liquid 25 is more
rugged for a heavier rider than the typical cross country bike, and it
allows bigger drops and bigger roots and logs to be eaten up without issue.
I run Panararacer FR 2.4 tires on the bikes, which allows them to float over
sugar sand ( an issue in Florida where I ride most of the time), and they
were great on the highspeed downhills I did over the last week at Tsali in
NC. Sandra was not liking the weight penalty of the tires again for the
climbs, and for here bodyweight, they would be of little use on NC.

Hope this helps.
Dan V

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80 or
90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's website
and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride highly
technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

Quoted message said:

I run Panararacer FR 2.4 tires on the bikes, which allows them to float over
sugar sand ( an issue in Florida where I ride most of the time), and they
were great on the highspeed downhills I did over the last week at Tsali in
NC.

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's

website

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride

highly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

I will never know how a Dork like you could become such an [censored].

Quoted message said:

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers, and yours
is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any commercialization going
on, its about you trying to "sensationalize" yourself. Its enough to make
someone puke.

Dan V

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's

website

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride

highly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

I will never know how a Dork like you could become such an [censored].

Quoted message said:

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers, and yours
is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any commercialization going
on, its about you trying to "sensationalize" yourself. Its enough to make
someone puke.

Dan V

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's

website

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride

highly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

I will never know how a Dork like you could become such an [censored].

Quoted message said:

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers, and yours
is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any commercialization going
on, its about you trying to "sensationalize" yourself. Its enough to make
someone puke.

Dan V

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's

website

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride

highly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

I will never know how a Dork like you could become such an [censored].

Quoted message said:

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers, and yours
is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any commercialization going
on, its about you trying to "sensationalize" yourself. Its enough to make
someone puke.

Dan V

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Vo2lker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Garrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all. I am considering a '04 Trek Liquid 10 or a '04 Trek Fuel 80

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

90. I have a few parts already to upgrade. I looked at Trek's

website

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and upon inspecting features and reviews at MTBR.com it seems that the
Liquid is better but I am wondering two things:

(1) is the price increase worth it?
(2) what is all-mountain vs. Cross Country (from Trek's site)?

Thanks,
Garrett (newbie)

Quoted message said:

And to me, its about how much fun I can have, and its not some
macho nonsense about being so highly skilled I can "manage" to ride

highly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

technical sections on a rigid bike with one gear

You'll never know, will you?

I will never know how a Dork like you could become such an [censored].

Quoted message said:

Your incessant trek commercial is almost as lame as duhski's giant
ramblings. I wonder if the OP is going to take a vacation in Fla to
go "mountain" biking...

JDoubtful

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers, and yours
is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any commercialization going
on, its about you trying to "sensationalize" yourself. Its enough to make
someone puke.

Dan V

Groper Dan said:

Quoted message said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote {doesn't really matter}

Quoted message said:

Considering my advice is aimed at helping typical mountain bikers,
and yours is more about stroking your own ego, if there is any
commercialization going on, its about you trying to "sensationalize"
yourself. Its enough to make someone puke.

Or at least stick a hooked finger down his throat.

Bill "take the bait much?" S.