Trek 5.9 flexing

SkinnyRob said:

Hi all, first post here

I bought a Trek Madone 5.9 last year, and so far, its been wonderful. However, as of recently, Ive noticed an extreme amount of flex in the bottom bracket.

Now, Im not exactly a heavyweight at 6', and about 159 pounds. Ive been running for years, and have only gotten into cycling as of recently.

Ive heard that this could be caused from delamination? Can someone explain that to me, or how I could check?

Can you describe what you're experiencing to make the statement "extreme amount of flex in the bottom bracket"?

Postie said:

Can you describe what you're experiencing to make the statement "extreme amount of flex in the bottom bracket"?

The pedals can visibly rotate downward at the top of the stroke.

Ok, let me rephrase, that wasnt very clear, as the pedal turns downward anyway!It rotates to the outside (or inside) anywhere in the stroke, like the bracket is able to turn in the frame. Ive already checked the bracket, and its tight.

And before anyone says it, Im obviously not riding it in this condition.

SkinnyRob said:

Ok, let me rephrase, that wasnt very clear, as the pedal turns downward anyway!It rotates to the outside (or inside) anywhere in the stroke, like the bracket is able to turn in the frame. Ive already checked the bracket, and its tight.

And before anyone says it, Im obviously not riding it in this condition.

How much rotation are you talking about? Is there any chance you could take it to the LBS where you bought it? They could probably remove the bottom bracket and check. I would say, if the carbon is soft, or wasnt formed properly at the factory, yes that could be the problem, but there are other things it could stem from too. Hope that helps.

SkinnyRob said:

Ok, let me rephrase, that wasnt very clear, as the pedal turns downward anyway!It rotates to the outside (or inside) anywhere in the stroke, like the bracket is able to turn in the frame. Ive already checked the bracket, and its tight.

And before anyone says it, Im obviously not riding it in this condition.

That doesn't sound like it is the frame but rather the bottom bracket itself. One way or another, most LBSs would make it right again. Unless you've put in thousands of miles since you bought it, that shouldn't happen. If it is the frame, it should never happen.

You've bought a quality bike and Trek and the LBS should stand behind it.

Just out of curiosity, is the BB making any sound when you were pedaling?

No noise, just alot of flex. I too thought something may be internally wrong with the bracket. I will check with the LBS tomorrow.

Make sure it isn't that you have flexy wheels. Oftentimes noodly/poorly tensioned wheels give the impression of a flexy frame, especially when out of the saddle.

Daverino said:

Make sure it isn't that you have flexy wheels. Oftentimes noodly/poorly tensioned wheels give the impression of a flexy frame, especially when out of the saddle.

No, Ive got Ksyeriums, however you spell it. They were checked out by the shop 6 weeks ago, true and evenly tensioned.

If the BB is really moving around, it could be that the threaded aluminum BB shell has debonded from the CF frame. A failure like this would likely be covered by your Trek warranty if you bought the bike new. Let us know what the LBS says.

dhk said:

If the BB is really moving around, it could be that the threaded aluminum BB shell has debonded from the CF frame. A failure like this would likely be covered by your Trek warranty if you bought the bike new. Let us know what the LBS says.

That's the kind of problem that, in theory, I've always worried about with CF frames. To my surprise I don't know if I've ever heard of it actually happening. So, as DHK says, please let us know what you find out.

dhk said:

If the BB is really moving around, it could be that the threaded aluminum BB shell has debonded from the CF frame. A failure like this would likely be covered by your Trek warranty if you bought the bike new. Let us know what the LBS says.

dhk is in fact, the winner (sort of). The bracket has become unbonded from the carbon surrounding it, and that is where he is correct. But, as I also suspected and was told by others, there is some delamination around the bracket. The question is really, which came first, the bracket going bad, or the delamination, or did one cause the other etc.

The good part is, since I did buy the bike here, and they are Trek dealers, the frame is replaced free under the Lifetime Warranty. I asked a few questions about repairing, and, according to Trek, delamination isnt something that can necessarily be repaired suitably in this area of the frame, so a new frame is in order.

Now, the bad part is that Im out of a bike for a few weeks🙁

I guess Ill get those new running shoes broken in really well...

Glad you getting a new frame under warranty. I'm sure Trek will take a look at the frame to determine what went wrong. By any chance, did the BB come loose and require retorque at some point, either by the LBS or you? Overtorquing would be one way to damage the bond....either that, or you're just a strong rider. Do you do a lot of standing climbing on steep hills?

postie, bonding of an aluminum BB insert to CF frames does seem like a potential problem area to me as well. It's a high-stress area, and subject to maintenance damage as well as corrosion. It wouldn't keep me from buying a CF frame though.

dhk said:

Glad you getting a new frame under warranty. I'm sure Trek will take a look at the frame to determine what went wrong. By any chance, did the BB come loose and require retorque at some point, either by the LBS or you? Overtorquing would be one way to damage the bond....either that, or you're just a strong rider. Do you do a lot of standing climbing on steep hills?

postie, bonding of an aluminum BB insert to CF frames does seem like a potential problem area to me as well. It's a high-stress area, and subject to maintenance damage as well as corrosion. It wouldn't keep me from buying a CF frame though.

No, it was never retorqued by either. Im not that strong, at my height, I simply dont weigh enough to be a sprinter. I usually just ride, dont like hills, and dont stand and sprint hardly.

SkinnyRob said:

No, it was never retorqued by either. Im not that strong, at my height, I simply dont weigh enough to be a sprinter. I usually just ride, dont like hills, and dont stand and sprint hardly.

It's obviously a defective frame then. You're likely the one guy in 100 who got a bad frame from Trek; don't think they put these out too often.

Had to ask about your riding style because there is a strong racer here who breaks anything and everything in a season or two. He's not that big, but maybe a muscular 180 lbs. He rides and races Cat 1, about 15K a year, and loves to sprint and hammer big gears uphill. He's broken expensive Ti, custom steel in various brands..... over 20 bikes now. Not sure why he's so hard on frames.

He works part-time for an LBS who's not a Trek dealer. Will try to find out if he's broken any CF frames next time I'm out there.

SkinnyRob said:

dhk is in fact, the winner (sort of). The bracket has become unbonded from the carbon surrounding it, and that is where he is correct. But, as I also suspected and was told by others, there is some delamination around the bracket. The question is really, which came first, the bracket going bad, or the delamination, or did one cause the other etc.

The good part is, since I did buy the bike here, and they are Trek dealers, the frame is replaced free under the Lifetime Warranty. I asked a few questions about repairing, and, according to Trek, delamination isnt something that can necessarily be repaired suitably in this area of the frame, so a new frame is in order.

Now, the bad part is that Im out of a bike for a few weeks🙁

I guess Ill get those new running shoes broken in really well...

Awe man.... That really sucks dude. I guess the frame you're referring to is last year's Madone 5.9 (with the fin) as opposed to the 5.9 SL?

If that's the case, this year's top Madone with the fin is the 5.5 and it's made with 120 OCLV carbon as opposed to last year's 110 OCLV frame. I'm curious as to what Trek will do for you.

Anyway, the good news is, there's a million CF frames from Trek out there and most people don't ever have problems, even if they put on 10x the miles at 5x the toughness as you. After an incident like that, it's easy to be paranoid about something like that happening again. Like dfk said, it was a defect from a reputable company. Your next frame will do you good.

Cheers.

Postie said:

Awe man.... That really sucks dude. I guess the frame you're referring to is last year's Madone 5.9 (with the fin) as opposed to the 5.9 SL?

If that's the case, this year's top Madone with the fin is the 5.5 and it's made with 120 OCLV carbon as opposed to last year's 110 OCLV frame. I'm curious as to what Trek will do for you.

Anyway, the good news is, there's a million CF frames from Trek out there and most people don't ever have problems, even if they put on 10x the miles at 5x the toughness as you. After an incident like that, it's easy to be paranoid about something like that happening again. Like dfk said, it was a defect from a reputable company. Your next frame will do you good.

Cheers.

Yeah, mine has the fin. From what I understand they are going to go ahead and replace it with the SL 5.9 frame, since it is the same frame as mine, material wise, without the fin. So, Trek upped the ante, good on them.

SkinnyRob said:

Yeah, mine has the fin. From what I understand they are going to go ahead and replace it with the SL 5.9 frame, since it is the same frame as mine, material wise, without the fin. So, Trek upped the ante, good on them.

As I recall Ive had 2 first run 5.9 frames come in with delamination on the carbon finish. Both have been warrantied with new frames, one guy even got a Project One Paint job for free!

TWOPBikeGuy said:

As I recall Ive had 2 first run 5.9 frames come in with delamination on the carbon finish. Both have been warrantied with new frames, one guy even got a Project One Paint job for free!

What is considered to be "first run"? Mine was bought sometime last year if that helps.

SkinnyRob said:

What is considered to be "first run"? Mine was bought sometime last year if that helps.

I would have called the first run the '04 model, but I assume that isn't yours.