Tram Priority cycling impact

Quoted message said:

That would be very bad for cycling. If you regularly cycle down roads
with tram routes I urge you to visit Clarendon Street and see for
yourself what a dog's breakfast it is. If you don't want to see that
rolled out to a tram route near you, please write Port Phillip council
voicing your objections.

Not wanting to enter any big debate, and I'm sure its been voiced before..
but FFS I hate how on Whitehorse Rd the new tram stops have 'Give Way' signs
for the cycle lanes. With the correct speed/timing it is MUCH safer to pop
into the middle of the tram tracks and bypass the lot.

What is the protocol for those who ride it daily?

cheers,
GPL

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "GPLama" == GPLama <[email hidden]> writes:

GPLama said:

Quoted message said:

That would be very bad for cycling. If you regularly cycle down
roads with tram routes I urge you to visit Clarendon Street and
see for yourself what a dog's breakfast it is. If you don't want
to see that rolled out to a tram route near you, please write
Port Phillip council voicing your objections.

GPLama> Not wanting to enter any big debate, and I'm sure its been
GPLama> voiced before.. but FFS I hate how on Whitehorse Rd the new
GPLama> tram stops have 'Give Way' signs for the cycle lanes. With
GPLama> the correct speed/timing it is MUCH safer to pop into the
GPLama> middle of the tram tracks and bypass the lot.

GPLama> What is the protocol for those who ride it daily?

I haven't seen that one, I can guess the council's logic though. Their
written mandate is that all future transport initiatives should favor
pedestrians, then cyclists, then motorists in that order. Pedestrian
access to trams takes priority over cyclists. Which is pretty messed
up.

Have you written the council with your concerns? It's not guaranteed
that anything will happen if you do, it IS guaranteed that nothing will
happen if you don't.
--
Cheers
Euan

GPLama said:

Not wanting to enter any big debate, and I'm sure its been voiced before..
but FFS I hate how on Whitehorse Rd the new tram stops have 'Give Way' signs
for the cycle lanes. With the correct speed/timing it is MUCH safer to pop
into the middle of the tram tracks and bypass the lot.

What is the protocol for those who ride it daily?

Check for trams:

If tram close, use bike path (spits you out in front of all the cars on
the downhill, throw in some air off the curb to rub it in 🙂).

If no tram, ride on road next to stupid fuggin tram stop.

Give-way signs? Meh.. I don't remember seeing any.

hippy

hippy said:

Check for trams:

If tram close, use bike path (spits you out in front of all the cars on
the downhill, throw in some air off the curb to rub it in 🙂).

If no tram, ride on road next to stupid fuggin tram stop.

Give-way signs? Meh.. I don't remember seeing any.

hippy

The bigest probelm with the Whorse ones is the 2(or 3?) stops that put cyclists out into the middle of a sidestreet on 're-entry'!!!

The parameters of these stops are outlined in that BV link above.
Bart from BV met with Vicroads last week to discuss the future design of these stops as they are about to 'upgrade' the remainder of Whorse Rd (Boroodara eastern boundary thru to Kew Junction and byeond possibly?).
The biggest problem with these is the length/size that's involved. This limits the places you can whack such a concrete battleship, thus the involvement of sidestreets.
Interestingly, one of the suggestions muted to free up Kew Junction (and other main drags) is to place the tram line next to the curve inside a dedicated barrier, thus allowing all cars to pass at all times. Apparently this is done quite well in many euro locations and also allows for cycling lane on left between tramtracks and curb. Anyone seen these?

Euan, make sure you get to the appropriate meeting early to register to speak (organise as many like-minded people thru the BUG no doubt) hand over relevant images fro the council-nerds to project for everyone to see their stupidity and get [email hidden] to com and speak as well on your behalf. He did a grand job at the Boroondara meeting last year.

Now, back OnThread!
To me the easiest solution would seem to be (to make all wallies happy 🙄 ) is to keep their setup as is, push that ped-curb-lights back 2-3 metres back to the original curb which allows the trams to do what council intends, people in coffins to get into these silly right turn lanes and cyclists to pass on their right and peds to stand where god intended them to!

f"one sleep to go"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

The bigest probelm with the Whorse ones is the 2(or 3?) stops that put
cyclists out into the middle of a sidestreet on 're-entry'!!!

2.5 methinks.. just on the city side of Box Hill.
The set on the top of the hill has both sides of the road messed up and
there is another stop on the outbound lane closer to Box Hill.

Quoted message said:

The parameters of these stops are outlined in that BV link above.
Bart from BV met with Vicroads last week to discuss the future design
of these stops as they are about to 'upgrade' the remainder of Whorse
Rd (Boroodara eastern boundary thru to Kew Junction and byeond
possibly?).

NOOOOOOOOO!!!! (Oh wait.. I wont be here 🙂)

Quoted message said:

The biggest problem with these is the length/size that's involved. This
limits the places you can whack such a concrete battleship, thus the
involvement of sidestreets.

"concrete battleship" Nice. These stops are [censored]. They don't slow the
cars and push riders into the traffic. No, I'm not going to use the bike
lanes unless a tram is up my [censored] - they are full of peds and cars
exiting the sidestreets don't expect me to be where they cross. It is
safer to stay on the road.

Quoted message said:

Interestingly, one of the suggestions muted to free up Kew Junction
(and other main drags) is to place the tram line next to the curve
inside a dedicated barrier, thus allowing all cars to pass at all
times. Apparently this is done quite well in many euro locations and
also allows for cycling lane on left between tramtracks and curb.
Anyone seen these?

Nah.. I don't get what you mean. Can you find a design of this or pics
of an existing setup?

hippy
"quite a few more sleeps than dutchy to go.."

hippy said:

Nah.. I don't get what you mean. Can you find a design of this or pics
of an existing setup?

hippy
"quite a few more sleeps than dutchy to go.."

shall be seeing what's the go in Holland/Germany and to a lesser extent Manhattan.

PS Im doin the alleycats race in NY with an old mate who's a longtime courier over there. AND i gets a fixie! 😄 😄 😄

F"One sleep to go. If i get any sleep 🙄 "Dutch

flyingdutch said:

shall be seeing what's the go in Holland/Germany and to a lesser extent
Manhattan.

Nice. I look forward to detailed reports of where to go and where not to
go. Any info helps my planning 🙂

Quoted message said:

PS Im doin the alleycats race in NY with an old mate who's a longtime
courier over there. AND i gets a fixie! 😄 😄 😄

Are you sure?
I've seen those crazy fsckers ride through insane NYC traffic on
fixies.. even on a freewheeled bike I'd be hard pushed to ride like
them!! Maybe the ones I saw just happened to be particularly fast and
insane?! If you make it back alive, write a race report 🙂

Check it:
http://www.digave.com/videos/images/lean-th.jpg

Other Lucas Brunelle vids:
http://www.digave.com/videos/

Apparently it's cheap going from Europe to the States?
Maybe I can visit there too! 🙂

hippy

quote='hippy'flyingdutch said:

shall be seeing what's the go in Holland/Germany and to a lesser extent
Manhattan.

Nice. I look forward to detailed reports of where to go and where not to
go. Any info helps my planning 🙂

Quoted message said:

PS Im doin the alleycats race in NY with an old mate who's a longtime
courier over there. AND i gets a fixie! 😄 😄 😄

Are you sure?
I've seen those crazy fsckers ride through insane NYC traffic on
fixies.. even on a freewheeled bike I'd be hard pushed to ride like
them!! Maybe the ones I saw just happened to be particularly fast and
insane?! If you make it back alive, write a race report 🙂

Check it:
http://www.digave.com/videos/images/lean-th.jpg

Other Lucas Brunelle vids:
http://www.digave.com/videos/

Apparently it's cheap going from Europe to the States?
Maybe I can visit there too! 🙂

hippy[/QUOTE]

yeah, he said he 'might' take it easy on me.
mind you the last 'easy' he gave me involved tequila and me with Ti pins in my wrist!!!

Dunno 'bout cheap flights. work's payin my way.
Its all work, you know.
kind of, well... 🙄

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <[email hidden]> writes:

flyingdutch> Euan, make sure you get to the appropriate meeting
flyingdutch> early to register to speak (organise as many
flyingdutch> like-minded people thru the BUG no doubt) hand over
flyingdutch> relevant images fro the council-nerds to project for
flyingdutch> everyone to see their stupidity and get [email hidden]
flyingdutch> to com and speak as well on your behalf. He did a grand
flyingdutch> job at the Boroondara meeting last year.

Thanks Dutch, should have mentioned that I've written two letters to
Port Phillip Council, had one response and attended the Port Phillips
BUG on Monday which had BV representation present. Next up letter to
The Age (working title "Tram priority the death knell of bicycle
commuting"😉, I've got a three out of four strike rate with them so
here's hoping, and I've volunteered to deliver fliers to a load of bike
shops. BV have been copied in on all correspondence.

I'm not the sort to exhort others to get off their [censored] whilst sitting
on mine ;-)
--
Cheers
Euan

[email hidden said:

"]
Thanks Dutch, should have mentioned that I've written two letters to
Port Phillip Council, had one response and attended the Port Phillips
BUG on Monday which had BV representation present. Next up letter to
The Age (working title "Tram priority the death knell of bicycle
commuting"😉, I've got a three out of four strike rate with them so
here's hoping, and I've volunteered to deliver fliers to a load of bike
shops. BV have been copied in on all correspondence.

I'm not the sort to exhort others to get off their [censored] whilst sitting
on mine ;-)
--
Cheers
Euan

big elephant stamp for euan! 😄

we all need to be more like you.
so may people sit around (at home or online forums) and whine that things arent done well for cyclists.
Few get off their [censored] and do anything about it!!!
May you never get a puncture
( icoudlnt thinkof anyhing that's likely to happen... oh wait! Drink on me if we ever meet 😄 )

"GPLama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That would be very bad for cycling. If you regularly cycle down roads
with tram routes I urge you to visit Clarendon Street and see for
yourself what a dog's breakfast it is. If you don't want to see that
rolled out to a tram route near you, please write Port Phillip council
voicing your objections.

Not wanting to enter any big debate, and I'm sure its been voiced before..
but FFS I hate how on Whitehorse Rd the new tram stops have 'Give Way' signs
for the cycle lanes. With the correct speed/timing it is MUCH safer to pop
into the middle of the tram tracks and bypass the lot.

What is the protocol for those who ride it daily?

cheers,
GPL

That is exactly the protocol. Uphill is a little harder, but can be
timed safely. If it can't, or it looks dangerous (trucks or the tram
itself) the detour onto the 'bike' lane is no real stress. Downhill,
you'd be crazy to take the bike lane option at any speed. You lose
your right of way to a sidestreet just after the first one (first as
you're heading outbound) and there's no visibility to see if it's
clear until you're on it. Also, there is no way pedestrians see it as
a bike lane, really. They can't see the signs at either end when they
get off the tram in the middle of the stop, and don't seem to notice
it if they're just passing through. As I pass on the road I often take
an interest in pedestrian behaviour, and very often their random
changes of direction justify my tactic of accelerating to about forty
or so by the first one, picking a gap in traffic and hopping into the
tram lane. Back into the left lane down the hill and speed up to
55-60ish and hop back into traffic for the next one. It's no real fuss
and sure beats slowing to 20 to dodge pedestrians.
Cheers

blah said:

That is exactly the protocol. Uphill is a little harder, but can be
timed safely. If it can't, or it looks dangerous (trucks or the tram
itself) the detour onto the 'bike' lane is no real stress. Downhill,
you'd be crazy to take the bike lane option at any speed. You lose
your right of way to a sidestreet just after the first one (first as
you're heading outbound) and there's no visibility to see if it's
clear until you're on it. Also, there is no way pedestrians see it as
a bike lane, really. They can't see the signs at either end when they
get off the tram in the middle of the stop, and don't seem to notice
it if they're just passing through. As I pass on the road I often take
an interest in pedestrian behaviour, and very often their random
changes of direction justify my tactic of accelerating to about forty
or so by the first one, picking a gap in traffic and hopping into the
tram lane. Back into the left lane down the hill and speed up to
55-60ish and hop back into traffic for the next one. It's no real fuss
and sure beats slowing to 20 to dodge pedestrians.
Cheers

apologies for the W'horse trams taking over youre thread euan, but...
painting the offroad bike lane yellow or green?
think that might make a difference in that scenario, Blah?
(i realise its a matte rof degree but any improvement is an improvement. meself follows your approach, but im thinkin more for 'mums&dads/kids'😉

PS make em hurt on Sunday for me. of course i would, but...

F"8 hours to go"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

PS make em hurt on Sunday for me. of course i would, but...

<offthreadtopic>
I'm up for some speed this weekend.. given that I am unable to get to my
first crit.. AGAIN.. gggrrrrr..

flatbar on the MTB is awesome, its almost feeling like a roadie... now
to locate some (to us an AH term) 'handbag' slicks for it 😉
</offthreadtopic>

cheers,
GPL

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <[email hidden]> writes:

flyingdutch> May you never get a puncture ( icoudlnt thinkof anyhing
flyingdutch> that's likely to happen... oh wait! Drink on me if we
flyingdutch> ever meet 😄 )

I'll take the beer, three flats in two days.

Some weeks are just like that I guess :-S
--
Cheers
Euan