trainning for climbs

chizlr40 said:

i have a problem. i am planning a trip from michigan to pa next year.i thought i had a decent trainning program. recently i took a trip to pennsylvania and rode 60 miles.man ive never seen grades like this.what can id do to train in flat michigan for these climbs.

Just build up your power and if poss lose some weight. Climbing hills is all about power to weight ratio. If you increase your sustainable power, you will climb better without even smelling a hill. There are plenty of threads relating to power training. My "Killing me" thread is one, but it's a bit long. Perhaps it's better to find a shorter thread. TYSON

As I said to your colleague from Chicago. First thing, your gearing probably sucks for climbing since the LBS in your area are probably specing their bikes with straight block gearing and you might only have a 39/21 as your granny. Great for lakeshore drive, but a newbie doing a hilly century needs either a Triple, compact crankset, or at least a 25 granny if a conventional 53/42 crankset. Even if you are riding a 23 as your biggest ring in the back (unless it is a compact crankset), you are going to be hurting on this type of ride unless you're an animal, or are really acclimated to hills. If over age 40, switch clusters on your next hilly century to a 27 granny, and you will spin right up those hills.

As far as training. I ride in SE PA, in a pretty hilly area, but I do train sometimes in South Jersey (super flat). When they visit our turf, The guys in South Jersey still can climb (provided their bike is set up right) even though they train in the flats. Back when six speed straight blocks sometimes had no ring larger than a 17 (circa 1988), it was funny watching them climb the infamous Manayunk Wall. I still see guys doing similar hills on fixed gear set ups. When I am down in the pine barrens for a week or so, I do miss real hills, so eventually you can learn to master climbs. So here is what I do. You can simulate climbing with a spin bike by cranking the tension up- I do seated "climbs" and standing "climbs". I have even tried to simulate it by pushing too big gears on a flat road while trying to keep the speed up. Spinnervals has an uphill grind tape that tries to simulate hills on a trainer. It is pretty good. If I am riding hard in Jersey for a few weeks, I can hit the hills back home without missing a beat. Finally, hook up with a local area riding club. I am sure that they have routes over what little hills your area has, and you will start to get the hang of it. Finally, power to weight is key. Get lighter or get stronger. If you can do both, the battle is won.

chizlr40 said:

i have a problem. i am planning a trip from michigan to pa next year.i thought i had a decent trainning program. recently i took a trip to pennsylvania and rode 60 miles.man ive never seen grades like this.what can id do to train in flat michigan for these climbs.

Last year I travelled from Kansas City to ride the Triple Bypass in Colorado, and had the same concern during training. We have hills here, but not 15-mile grades like I would face in Colorado. An indoor trainer actually does a pretty good job of preparing someone for long climbs. The steady, relentless resistance of the trainer is pretty similar to that of a climb. A steady diet of longer (10-30 minute) intervals just below the intensity where your legs start to burn will increase your sustainable power and allow you to cruise uphill. Besides a trainer, headwinds are good simulation as well. Don't shrink from the wind, sit up and grind away for those long intervals.

Gearing is also important, but if you can increase your power through training you may find that you can ride your current setup without issue. Wait until next Spring before you make any changes there.

frenchyge said:

Last year I travelled from Kansas City to ride the Triple Bypass in Colorado, and had the same concern during training. We have hills here, but not 15-mile grades like I would face in Colorado. An indoor trainer actually does a pretty good job of preparing someone for long climbs. The steady, relentless resistance of the trainer is pretty similar to that of a climb. A steady diet of longer (10-30 minute) intervals just below the intensity where your legs start to burn will increase your sustainable power and allow you to cruise uphill. Besides a trainer, headwinds are good simulation as well. Don't shrink from the wind, sit up and grind away for those long intervals.

Gearing is also important, but if you can increase your power through training you may find that you can ride your current setup without issue. Wait until next Spring before you make any changes there.

I'd still look into the gearing issue- Climbs around Pa- I used to live in central Pa and you need about 300w to get a 39x25 turning at any decent pace on most of the local climbs. God help you if your on a 21. If this is a long ride then that's going to a bit tough. I had a local hill that was 14% ave for 1.25 miles- There are steep climbs there. so make sure your gearing is up to par.

I guess the brilliant engineers all sat there staring at the Mt. saying "Oh, well that;s not that tall so we don't really need switchbacks, Hey Jerry point that paver straight till you hit the top." They do that a lot around there.

That said the climbs are different here in Co- most of them aren't as hard simply because even though they're long you can choose your own intensity. 20 miles at 3-4% doesn't hit as hard as 2 miles at 11%.

gvanwagner said:

I'd still look into the gearing issue- Climbs around Pa- I used to live in central Pa and you need about 300w to get a 39x25 turning at any decent pace on most of the local climbs. God help you if your on a 21. If this is a long ride then that's going to a bit tough. I had a local hill that was 14% ave for 1.25 miles- There are steep climbs there. so make sure your gearing is up to par.

I guess the brilliant engineers all sat there staring at the Mt. saying "Oh, well that;s not that tall so we don't really need switchbacks, Hey Jerry point that paver straight till you hit the top." They do that a lot around there.

That said the climbs are different here in Co- most of them aren't as hard simply because even though they're long you can choose your own intensity. 20 miles at 3-4% doesn't hit as hard as 2 miles at 11%.

I have ridden alot in Co and Gvan is right on. Central Pa has a lot of 1-5 mile steep climbs that can be 10-18%. (My issue in Co is altitude, not grade). In Co, the grades are usually managable on the road because otherwise trucks couldn't get up or down them in the snow. They're long enough but not nearly as steep. Our rural roads are old and were designed long before any real consideratioin was given to grade by highway engineers. NE PA is also tough with hills, particularly in Jim Thorpe and the pocono area, and any area that crosses the Appalachian trail in hard coal country. Western part of the state is tough there as well. Most of us even in the relatively flatter SE PA who are doing anything other than riding circles around some flat river are running compacts, triples, or have at least a 39/25. I have a compact 34/25 and I use every gear almost every ride. We have very short (.7 to 1.5 miles), very steep (15%+) hills. World Class Marathon runners from Kenya train in Valley Forge Park for a reason. Unless you are a glutton for punishment, don't come out on a long hilly ride with the wrong set up. Nobody will give you points for having to climb long out of the saddle just to get dropped.

kopride said:

I have ridden alot in Co and Gvan is right on. Central Pa has a lot of 1-5 mile steep climbs that can be 10-18%. (My issue in Co is altitude, not grade). In Co, the grades are usually managable on the road because otherwise trucks couldn't get up or down them in the snow. They're long enough but not nearly as steep. Our rural roads are old and were designed long before any real consideratioin was given to grade by highway engineers. NE PA is also tough with hills, particularly in Jim Thorpe and the pocono area, and any area that crosses the Appalachian trail in hard coal country. Western part of the state is tough there as well. Most of us even in the relatively flatter SE PA who are doing anything other than riding circles around some flat river are running compacts, triples, or have at least a 39/25. I have a compact 34/25 and I use every gear almost every ride. We have very short (.7 to 1.5 miles), very steep (15%+) hills. World Class Marathon runners from Kenya train in Valley Forge Park for a reason. Unless you are a glutton for punishment, don't come out on a long hilly ride with the wrong set up. Nobody will give you points for having to climb long out of the saddle just to get dropped.

Agree the gearing is very important. Putting out power at high cadence is great training for climbing only if you've got the gearing and power-to-weight to enable that same high cadence when you get to the hills. For grades of 12-15% and higher, it's hard to have gearing low enough to maintain that peak power cadence for most of us mere mortals.

Actually now that i think about it, that's one of the reasons that everybody not from Pa was complaining about the Nationals TT course- they thought it was obscene to have 12+ percent grades in a TT- Well if you've ever been to that area of the state there "ain't no flat tracks"