Training with Power vs. Training with Speed

Bianco said:

I was thinking just now, what would the difference be between training with power and training with speed? Power and speed have an almost direct relationship, more power = more speed. And, remember, that is how the Kinetic trainer computer works. It knows that at 22mph you are pushing 250 watts. No ifs, ands or buts. With outdoor riding, other variables come into play such as wind speed, but generally speaking, the more watts you are producing, the more mph you will see.

So, instead of maintaining a certain wattage for a certain amount of time, just maintain a certain speed. It seems like it might be the same thing, to me. You could train to do 250 watts for 20 minutes, or you could train to do 22mph avg for 20 minutes. Training with power is supposed to help you go faster, but, of course, you could always just ride faster!

Take a 40km time trial as an example. Many people have a goal of finishing a 40k in under one hour. This basically relates to keeping an average speed of 40 kph (24.85 mph). So, you could basically train yourself to ride 25mph for an hour, and you will obviously be able to reach your goal. Or, you could use power and determine how many watts you need to produce to keep that average speed. In the end, it seems to me to be the same thing (roughly). Of course, I may be missing something here.

Thoughts?

How will you know which energy system you are training using speed?

Bianco said:

I was thinking just now, what would the difference be between training with power and training with speed? Power and speed have an almost direct relationship, more power = more speed. And, remember, that is how the Kinetic trainer computer works. It knows that at 22mph you are pushing 250 watts. No ifs, ands or buts. With outdoor riding, other variables come into play such as wind speed, but generally speaking, the more watts you are producing, the more mph you will see.

So, instead of maintaining a certain wattage for a certain amount of time, just maintain a certain speed. It seems like it might be the same thing, to me. You could train to do 250 watts for 20 minutes, or you could train to do 22mph avg for 20 minutes. Training with power is supposed to help you go faster, but, of course, you could always just ride faster!

Take a 40km time trial as an example. Many people have a goal of finishing a 40k in under one hour. This basically relates to keeping an average speed of 40 kph (24.85 mph). So, you could basically train yourself to ride 25mph for an hour, and you will obviously be able to reach your goal. Or, you could use power and determine how many watts you need to produce to keep that average speed. In the end, it seems to me to be the same thing (roughly). Of course, I may be missing something here.

Thoughts?

Hills. Headwind. Tailwind.

russelldb said:

Hills. Headwind. Tailwind.

Tires. Position. Equipment. Weight.

RapDaddyo said:

Tires. Position. Equipment. Weight.

Gradient must be the single biggest reason why this can't be done. Unless you have a velodrome in your back garden I suppose.

The reasons that using speed is a poor choice over power, are well, countless.

Just visit this page and see all the factors that affect speed - change a single one and everything is affected!

http://analyticcycling.com/ForcesSpeed_Page.html

Bianco said:

I was thinking just now, what would the difference be between training with power and training with speed? Power and speed have an almost direct relationship, more power = more speed. And, remember, that is how the Kinetic trainer computer works. It knows that at 22mph you are pushing 250 watts. No ifs, ands or buts. With outdoor riding, other variables come into play such as wind speed, but generally speaking, the more watts you are producing, the more mph you will see.

So, instead of maintaining a certain wattage for a certain amount of time, just maintain a certain speed. It seems like it might be the same thing, to me. You could train to do 250 watts for 20 minutes, or you could train to do 22mph avg for 20 minutes. Training with power is supposed to help you go faster, but, of course, you could always just ride faster!

Take a 40km time trial as an example. Many people have a goal of finishing a 40k in under one hour. This basically relates to keeping an average speed of 40 kph (24.85 mph). So, you could basically train yourself to ride 25mph for an hour, and you will obviously be able to reach your goal. Or, you could use power and determine how many watts you need to produce to keep that average speed. In the end, it seems to me to be the same thing (roughly). Of course, I may be missing something here.

Thoughts?

That's all OK if you're measuring your progress on a trainer/rollers. You'll need to monitor your tire pressure as well. I've been using speed as a proxy for power (no PM - yet) on my rollers for a couple of years now.

Yeah, I'm silently assuming that this is location dependent. (good analogy with the backyard velodrome)

So, if you learn that you are capable of maintaining a 300 watt average for 40 mins, then you can take this anywhere on any course? up 5% climbs, long flat straights, etc. whereas with my speed idea, once you learn what speed you are capable of for a particular course, it is really only relevant for that particular course.

And, even still, if I maintain a 27mph average on a course that I know I'm capable of averaging 25 mph... did I get a better workout? have I improved? The tailwind that caused that particular day's speed increase would say 'no'.
Makes more sense now.

Bianco said:

I was thinking just now, what would the difference be between training with power and training with speed? Power and speed have an almost direct relationship, more power = more speed. And, remember, that is how the Kinetic trainer computer works. It knows that at 22mph you are pushing 250 watts. No ifs, ands or buts. With outdoor riding, other variables come into play such as wind speed, but generally speaking, the more watts you are producing, the more mph you will see.

So, instead of maintaining a certain wattage for a certain amount of time, just maintain a certain speed. It seems like it might be the same thing, to me. You could train to do 250 watts for 20 minutes, or you could train to do 22mph avg for 20 minutes. Training with power is supposed to help you go faster, but, of course, you could always just ride faster!

Take a 40km time trial as an example. Many people have a goal of finishing a 40k in under one hour. This basically relates to keeping an average speed of 40 kph (24.85 mph). So, you could basically train yourself to ride 25mph for an hour, and you will obviously be able to reach your goal. Or, you could use power and determine how many watts you need to produce to keep that average speed. In the end, it seems to me to be the same thing (roughly). Of course, I may be missing something here.

Thoughts?

If I hold 275watts on my KK road machine it creeps from somewhere around 20.5 mph to somewhere around 21.5 over the course of a 2x20, so that's a problem I think. I notice it most as I start the second 20 minute interval because there's a big difference in cadence from the previous one.

Outside, pace is a terrible measure of power. The reason I bought a PT in the first place was I found it nearly impossible to track my progress without one. The variance in pace due to wind on the same course from one day to the next was 10 times any progress I made even over a period of months.

lanierb said:

If I hold 275watts on my KK road machine it creeps from somewhere around 20.5 mph to somewhere around 21.5 over the course of a 2x20, so that's a problem I think. I notice it most as I start the second 20 minute interval because there's a big difference in cadence from the previous one.

Is this true if you warm up the trainer (e.g., 10mins) before the 1st 20?