Training question

Michelle said:

My question is in regards to the short run. It is a two-mile
run for the first six weeks, and a three-mile run for the next
six weeks.

The question is how I should do the short run. Should it be at
the same pace as the normal run? Should I try to run it faster?
Should it be an easy run at a slower pace?

IMO the ultimate best answer always involves the maxim "listen to your
body." After some weeks of the schedule you'll have a better idea
what kind of effort you're capable of, what your body feel like on the
third consecutive day of running which'll be a new experience for you,
right? And then after some more weeks you'll be capable of a bit
more, and so on and so on.

Another opinion: especially in the early going when it's only two
miles, don't make this the run to go faster. First mile or so is
probably warming up and you may be better served running like Dan and
his Kenyan buddies and starting quite slow, building up to "easy" pace
in the first several minutes. That doesn't leave a lot of run left
for faster stuff. I'd prefer to push a little more in the latter half
of the "normal" or longer runs when you're completely warmed up -
which should also be a little better simulation of (and confidence-
builder for) working hard when a little fatigued in the race.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Charlie Pendejo said:

Quoted message said:

The question is how I should do the short run. Should it be at the
same pace as the normal run? Should I try to run it faster? Should
it be an easy run at a slower pace?

IMO the ultimate best answer always involves the maxim "listen to
your body."

True, but it doesn't give me a starting point. <g>

Quoted message said:

After some weeks of the schedule you'll have a better idea what kind
of effort you're capable of, what your body feel like on the third
consecutive day of running which'll be a new experience for you,
right?

Right; in fact, two consecutive days will be a new experience for me.

Quoted message said:

I'd prefer to push a little more in the latter half of the "normal"
or longer runs when you're completely warmed up - which should also
be a little better simulation of (and confidence- builder for)
working hard when a little fatigued in the race.

I already know what it feels like to be fatigued later in a run. I
experienced that yesterday, in fact. *sigh* But I do understand your
point.

Late in the run yesterday, I was thinking "If I feel like this at under
four miles, how will I ever finish 13.1?" My next thought was that I
had the same thought about ever finishing 5K if I felt that way after 1
1/2 miles. All I have to do is keep training and I'll do better and
better.

If I finish the half marathon, I'll be happy. If I finish it before my
friend finishes the full marathon, I'll be joyous. And if I finish it
in three hours or less, I'll be ecstatic.

She hopes to finish it in under 4:06 so she can BQ.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

Michelle said:

I already know what it feels like to be fatigued later in a run.

Heh, right. But also remember - training's not just about giving you
one glimpse, a sneak preview, of what it feels like; it's about
consistently dealing with it so that you consistently improve. :-)

Quoted message said:

Late in the run yesterday, I was thinking "If I feel like this at under
four miles, how will I ever finish 13.1?" My next thought was that I
had the same thought about ever finishing 5K if I felt that way after 1
1/2 miles. All I have to do is keep training and I'll do better and
better.

Exactly.

I can't imagine Doug thought, six months into his running career, that
he'd be routinely running hundred milers. (Not that I imagine a
hundred miler ever gets to feel "routine" for a normal, mortal man!)

Hell, first few times I watched the thundering hordes running the NYCM
through my neighborhood, I was astonished that these folks had already
gone something like 8 miles and they were still *running*, some of 'em
even looking pretty fresh.

You already know all this but don't be afraid to slow down and/or
incorporate walk breaks as needed, and don't be a slave to the
schedule if what you really need is a rest day. And I'd add, don't be
afraid to pick up the pace if you're feeling particularly good and
tomorrow's a day off. You'll do great.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Charlie Pendejo said:

Quoted message said:

I already know what it feels like to be fatigued later in a run.

Heh, right. But also remember - training's not just about giving you
one glimpse, a sneak preview, of what it feels like; it's about
consistently dealing with it so that you consistently improve. :-)

Well that feeling fatigued later in a run seems to be coming later and
later.

Quoted message said:

You already know all this but don't be afraid to slow down and/or
incorporate walk breaks as needed, and don't be a slave to the
schedule if what you really need is a rest day. And I'd add, don't
be afraid to pick up the pace if you're feeling particularly good and
tomorrow's a day off.

In my head I know that; now to get my body to know it.

Quoted message said:

You'll do great.

That, I don't know, but it is what I hope and strive for. Well, at
least doing well, if not great.

Thanks again.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
....

Quoted message said:

You already know all this but don't be afraid to slow down and/or
incorporate walk breaks as needed, and don't be a slave to the
schedule if what you really need is a rest day. And I'd add, don't be
afraid to pick up the pace if you're feeling particularly good and
tomorrow's a day off. You'll do great.

I'll second this point. I've had one or two days a week where I just get out
and move the legs, and on these days when I'm recovering, I often do walk
breaks and just really listen to the legs, completely ignoring pace. It's a
mental break, it gives you a chance to talk to your body, and I think *many*
runners would benefit from some days like that. To bolster this point, as
Dan S. has pointed out, the Kenyans do their warm-up (and perhaps sometime
recovery?) at something very slow for them - like 10 or 11mpm, which is more
than twice as slow as their race pace! Now what would that be for a normally
slower to average runner? To me the answer is walk breaks.

The same is true, as Charlie says, on the top end - when you're feeling good
is the best time to open it up and go a little faster, or if your 'program'
calls for speedwork (and long runs I might add), its best to do it on those
days when you feel stronger, and part of balancing your training is to get
those things to line up more often than not. For example, if you're doing
your easy days properly, and are getting good recovery, you'll be fresh
enough to enjoy going faster on hard days.

-Tony, (who's up at night with post-long-race sleep/wake/eat/sleep/wake/eat
rush)

In article <fjgri.444$9I3.194@trndny06>,

Tony S. said:

The same is true, as Charlie says, on the top end - when you're
feeling good is the best time to open it up and go a little faster,
or if your 'program' calls for speedwork (and long runs I might add),

Higdon's novice plan doesn't call for speed work, tempo, or anything
other than just plain running. His intermediate and advanced programs
have pace and tempo runs, and also longer long runs than the novice
program.

So, based on the advice I got from Charlie and you and from sources
elsewhere, I'll play that short run by ear each week--fast, normal, or
slow, depending on how I feel.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Charlie Pendejo said:

IMO the ultimate best answer always involves the maxim "listen to
your body."

Well, today my body told me "go for it", so I did. Yesterday I did 3
miles in 42:56 (14:18 pace); today I did 3 miles in 26:15 (13:07 pace).

I'll try to take it easy tomorrow.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michelle said:

Well, today my body told me "go for it", so I did. Yesterday I did 3
miles in 42:56 (14:18 pace); today I did 3 miles in 26:15 (13:07
pace).

Whoops! Typo. Today I did *two* miles, not three.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.