Training data vs race data

zaskar said:

Looking through my training data, all of my training rides are harder then the races I do. Do you guys see the same thing in your data? I always thought id get my best numbers from racing but so far not the case. Makes me wonder if I'm racing to easy or training to hard.

Yes, that's what I see as well, mainly due to hiding in the pack as much as possible and always saving some energy in reserve for later use (which may or may not come). I train so that I'm exhausted at the end of the workout, but I race so that I can generate my highest numbers at the end, if needed.

frenchyge said:

Yes, that's what I see as well, mainly due to hiding in the pack as much as possible and always saving some energy in reserve for later use (which may or may not come). I train so that I'm exhausted at the end of the workout, but I race so that I can generate my highest numbers at the end, if needed.

Frenchgye is right on target. I am seeing the same thing myself due to the amount of time I am not pedaling. Look at your cadence graph in Cyclingpeaks, see how much time you're not turning it over....

jmocallaghan said:

Frenchgye is right on target. I am seeing the same thing myself due to the amount of time I am not pedaling. Look at your cadence graph in Cyclingpeaks, see how much time you're not turning it over....

Yea 28 minutes of 0-20 watts on power distribution chart. Then a big 160 -180 watts is where I was mostly for the race. I think it sucks to train so hard then the race is way easy. I cant wait for the mountains. To suck wheel takes no fitness, boring.

Although a few weeks ago, Gord Fraser put the hammer down and no cat 1s could suck his wheel. What amazing power. When he shows up for the group ride, it is brutal, and thats where my numbers come alive.

zaskar said:

Looking through my training data, all of my training rides are harder then the races I do. Do you guys see the same thing in your data? I always thought id get my best numbers from racing but so far not the case. Makes me wonder if I'm racing to easy or training to hard.

Are you winning? - TF

Terry Ferguson said:

Are you winning? - TF

No, that's another thing that sucks, I place mostly top 5. When the time comes I get boxed in, on the wrong wheel, or flat ,my luck sucks. My next race which doesn't mean much, I'm going to attack, and ride like its a training ride. When I go to the front and take a turn I always get hey, your working to hard, or your not going to win alone. Im just pulling at L3. When in shape im only at 4.44watts per kilo, Im hoping to raise that this season.

zaskar said:

Yea 28 minutes of 0-20 watts on power distribution chart. Then a big 160 -180 watts is where I was mostly for the race.

Which metrics are you looking at for these files? A power distribution shart for a mass start race is typically pretty unimpressive, as is the average power. What does NP look like for the race, compared with training rides?

jbvcoaching said:

Which metrics are you looking at for these files? A power distribution shart for a mass start race is typically pretty unimpressive, as is the average power. What does NP look like for the race, compared with training rides?

NP 200- 215 watts for the road races. My training rides NP for same lenth of time 230 240 watts.

zaskar said:

No, that's another thing that sucks, I place mostly top 5. When the time comes I get boxed in, on the wrong wheel, or flat ,my luck sucks. My next race which doesn't mean much, I'm going to attack, and ride like its a training ride. When I go to the front and take a turn I always get hey, your working to hard, or your not going to win alone. Im just pulling at L3. When in shape im only at 4.44watts per kilo, Im hoping to raise that this season.

Reading my post, it may have sounded bad. Didn't mean it to.

I've never had that luxury - my races are way harder than my training rides and you can probably guess the result. I guess I was wondering what you were saving it for if you were not winning.

TF

zaskar said:

NP 200- 215 watts for the road races. My training rides NP for same lenth of time 230 240 watts.

what Cat are you? your FTP? length of training hours/week? how long is your typical race/training ride? how long are you holding 230-240W?

zaskar said:

When the time comes I get boxed in, on the wrong wheel, or flat ,my luck sucks.

You make your own luck.

Perhaps work on bunch positioning and sprint finishing skills? So many focus on their engine but forget how to drive.

Alex Simmons said:

Perhaps work on bunch positioning and sprint finishing skills? So many focus on their engine but forget how to drive.

...and if you're finishing your races with gas left in the tank (and not winning), then possibly be a bit more aggressive *before* the bunch sprint.

Alex Simmons said:

You make your own luck.

Perhaps work on bunch positioning and sprint finishing skills? So many focus on their engine but forget how to drive.

Well I can't control a flat , but you and French have a very good point.

vio765 said:

what Cat are you? your FTP? length of training hours/week? how long is your typical race/training ride? how long are you holding 230-240W?

4 right now upgrading to 3 this spring. 280 watts last year, 230-240 watts for 3 hours. NP and avg would be about the same with these ride. I kept it steady up and down hills. My FTP is lower right now, been training again 2 months(after 2 months off, no intervals). My last 1 hour power was 4 weeks ago 266 watts. races are 2-4 hours, none USCF 4-6 hours. I train 10 -15 hours a week, and weigh 135lbs.

zaskar said:

4 right now upgrading to 3 this spring. 280 watts last year, 230-240 watts for 3 hours. NP and avg would be about the same with these ride. I kept it steady up and down hills. My FTP is lower right now, been training again 2 months(after 2 months off, no intervals). My last 1 hour power was 4 weeks ago 266 watts. races are 2-4 hours, none USCF 4-6 hours. I train 10 -15 hours a week, and weigh 135lbs.

Here's my take, it looks to me like you have the fitness to win cat 4 races, but you aren't, so whats left? tactics! the lower cats are where you should be learningg, making mistakes and trying new things. You should go out a bust your a$$, to try to make a break stick, bridge etc..

I say that because, again, you 'should' be able to win races at that level of fitness (4.56w/kg is a good number) and because if the races end up being fairly easy tempo rides, then its time to move up to the next cat. That being said, if you don't learn how to win in the 4's, its going to be a while before you get the opportunity to learn that in the 3's.

good luck!