Trainers

ric_stern/RST said:

Dont! I could send you my spare yellow caps. I dunno who thought of yellow hub caps and computers... 😠

Obviously, yellow is not one of your team colors.😉

RapDaddyo said:

Obviously, yellow is not one of your team colors.😉

indeed it's not (or at least at present it isn't). not knocking yellow, it just would have been better to make them in a more neutral colour.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

indeed it's not (or at least at present it isn't). not knocking yellow, it just would have been better to make them in a more neutral colour.

Isn't the SRM computer day-glow orange, or maybe I'm thinking of the Ergomo? It seems they all want they products to be noticed... 🙄

frenchyge said:

I'm surprised that's not something you notice. I noticed that my speed was higher on later intervals even before I got a power meter. Unfortunately, I was unable to delude myself that I was just riding stronger, so trainer drift was the only explanation. 🙂

After the unit has warmed up, which usually takes about 20 minutes with some fairly good wattage, I calibrate the rolling resistance. I do this each time I use the unit. I also use that new trainer specific tire from Continental. I also make sure that the rolling resistance is close to 2.7. (I can't remember where I got that nugget, but using this rolling resistance with the CT is supposed to give you the most accurate watts readings.)
Anyway, I realize that drift can still occur but I never notice a change. Man, I wish those intervals would get easier as they go. I just keep suffering more with each interval.

frenchyge said:

Isn't the SRM computer day-glow orange, or maybe I'm thinking of the Ergomo? It seems they all want they products to be noticed... 🙄

I think Ric wants red/black IIRC.😄

frenchyge said:

Isn't the SRM computer day-glow orange, or maybe I'm thinking of the Ergomo? It seems they all want they products to be noticed... 🙄

That's the Ergomo. It's also about 3 times the height of any other powermeter CPU and has a mount that places it so high on the bars that if you hit a bump, it could take out an eye.

I've seen a few people who have them on those multi-pivot computer mounts for winged carbon bars just to get them in front of and level with the handlebars.

I have both a black and red PCV so I can choose depending on my mood.

Squint said:

I have both a black and red PCV so I can choose depending on my mood.

Now, that's a plan.😄

RapDaddyo said:

I think Ric wants red/black IIRC.😄

That's correct :-). But, black would be a good neutral colour for most bikes. Or maybe they could produce PTs (and other computers) in a range of colours. I can't be the only person who detests that yellow!

ric

So what was the ultimate decision... does the 1up or the KK fit the bill, RDO?

shawndoggy said:

So what was the ultimate decision... does the 1up or the KK fit the bill, RDO?

The KK is a good choice. I don't have enough input on the 1up, so I can't really say one way or the other. The KK has a little drift, but if you warm it up pretty well (>=5mins) before you start an effort it seems to be pretty stable based on several ride files I have looked at.

Aren't you spliting hairs with this drift issue I don't warm up more than a minute on the KK and got 13 watts improvement in FTP in one month on your plan. That's way better than HRM based training drift or no drift.

RapDaddyo said:

The KK is a good choice. I don't have enough input on the 1up, so I can't really say one way or the other. The KK has a little drift, but if you warm it up pretty well (>=5mins) before you start an effort it seems to be pretty stable based on several ride files I have looked at.

wiredued said:

Aren't you spliting hairs with this drift issue I don't warm up more than a minute on the KK and got 13 watts improvement in FTP in one month on your plan. That's way better than HRM based training drift or no drift.

LOL. It's really just in the interest of full disclosure (even though I don't make or sell the trainer and have no financial stake in it). For those without a PM, I unequivocally advocate using a trainer for workouts (year-round) and, at least as important, for periodic performance benchmarks. I think it is much, much more reliable than any other non-PM method I know of. But, this approach hinges on a consistent power/speed relationship and the specific attributes of the trainer that determine the accuracy of this approach are: (1) power/speed repeatability from ride to ride and (2) power/speed drift. So, I think people should be aware that there is still a slight drift with the KK (e.g., 5W) even after a short warmup. But, you're right, when compared with almost any other non-PM approach, it is infinitely better.

BTW, congrats on your FTP improvement.😄

You know I almost got the KK wind trainer but their site said it wasn't recommended if you plan on training at 18mph or above with no explaination why. I imagined it was one of two reasons either the thing would explode or it would sound like an F18 landing in my basement so I ordered the fluid.

acoggan said:

FWIW, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a trainer that strictly meets all of the above criteria. The only type that wouldn't be subject to at least some degree of heat-induced fade would be a wind-braked trainer, but those of course are quite noisy. OTOH, fluid-, magnetic-, and even electromagnetically-braked would all tend to show some changes in the speed-power relationship over time. For example, even my Velodyne, which has a warm-up function that allows you to pre-heat the brake before you ever get on the bike, tends to drift by up to 5 W/h.

Oh disclosure like "your mileage may vary" I just thought you were being neurotic...did I mention I improved 13 watts in a month.🙂 Those club riders won't be kicking sand in my face next year (or what ever they do).

RapDaddyo said:

LOL. It's really just in the interest of full disclosure (even though I don't make or sell the trainer and have no financial stake in it). For those without a PM, I unequivocally advocate using a trainer for workouts (year-round) and, at least as important, for periodic performance benchmarks. I think it is much, much more reliable than any other non-PM method I know of. But, this approach hinges on a consistent power/speed relationship and the specific attributes of the trainer that determine the accuracy of this approach are: (1) power/speed repeatability from ride to ride and (2) power/speed drift. So, I think people should be aware that there is still a slight drift with the KK (e.g., 5W) even after a short warmup. But, you're right, when compared with almost any other non-PM approach, it is infinitely better.

BTW, congrats on your FTP improvement.😄

wiredued said:

Oh disclosure like "your mileage may vary" I just thought you were being neurotic...did I mention I improved 13 watts in a month.🙂 Those club riders won't be kicking sand in my face next year (or what ever they do).

FWIW, you may be interested to know that I am starting a new cycling club for serious cyclists and racers in my town. I intend to negotiate two major equipment purchase deals for our members. One is with Saris for PTs. The other is with KK for their Road Machine trainer. We're also going to do quarterly FTP tests (based on 20min trainer rides -- AP*.95) and W/KG (obviously interrelated). We will publish the results to the members. I'm hoping it will create a little friendly competition among our members for "FTP and W/KG bragging rights." I guess I better get off my a** and get my numbers up before the first test.😄

I wish you well ...striveth for the mastery...

RapDaddyo said:

FWIW, you may be interested to know that I am starting a new cycling club for serious cyclists and racers in my town. I intend to negotiate two major equipment purchase deals for our members. One is with Saris for PTs. The other is with KK for their Road Machine trainer. We're also going to do quarterly FTP tests (based on 20min trainer rides -- AP*.95) and W/KG (obviously interrelated). We will publish the results to the members. I'm hoping it will create a little friendly competition among our members for "FTP and W/KG bragging rights." I guess I better get off my a** and get my numbers up before the first test.😄

wiredued said:

I wish you well ...striveth for the mastery...

I presented my plan to the first meeting of my new club. There was only one question: How quickly can we get them? It was unbelievable! The word is getting out.