Track chain, bushing or non-bushing

(almost fast) said:

Where can I buy a bushing style track chain? I want to be sure not to let it fall off while
riding...

You should avoid throwing the chain on a track bike regardless of its construction.

Counting finish options, you'll find a selection of six chain models with full bushings supporting
their rollers on the "components" page of the track section of our website. The manufacturers
include HKK, Izumi and Wippermann. All of them are in stock.

Take the scenic route through the website from the URL in the signature lines below, or go direct
to the track section of the site at businesscycles.comtrack.htmOpen ↗, then "components",
then "chains".

-------------------------------
businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida 305-273-4440 Now in our
twentieth year. Our catalog of track equipment: seventh year online
-------------------------------

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

John Dacey <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(almost fast) said:

Where can I buy a bushing style track chain? I want to be sure not to let it fall off while
riding...

You should avoid throwing the chain on a track bike regardless of its construction.

Counting finish options, you'll find a selection of six chain models with full bushings supporting
their rollers on the "components" page of the track section of our website. The manufacturers
include HKK, Izumi and Wippermann. All of them are in stock.

Take the scenic route through the website from the URL in the signature lines below, or go direct
to the track section of the site at businesscycles.comtrack.htmOpen ↗, then "components",
then "chains".

-------------------------------
businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida 305-273-4440 Now in our
twentieth year. Our catalog of track equipment: seventh year online
-------------------------------

(almost fast) said:

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

Lateral chain stiffness has been a quality long prized by track riders. I've given this subject some
thought and, although it may be heretical to suggest, I'm not so sure anymore that lateral stiffness
is by itself a significant virtue. In fact, in situations where the bike's chainline is compromised,
a laterally flexible chain may actually tolerate the resulting deflection better than a chain whose
lack of compliance expects and demands that the chainline be straight.

There are other considerations, however, that militates in favor of chains that are resistant to
side-to-side flex where the chainline *is* accurate. However, the lateral stiffness may be less a
desirable trait in itself than the result of other characteristics that make the chain stiff. Since
Sheldon has made it "Latin Month" on r.b.t., beware of the fallacious logic of "ad hoc, ergo propter
hoc" reasoning.

The rollers of chains that are supported by full bushings will generally have higher load carrying
capabilities than bushingless chains whose rollers are borne by bulges stamped into their inner link
plates. Since many track events put large peak loads on the chain (standing-start time trials,
sprinting, etc.), fully bushed chains should ordinarily be more capable of dealing with those loads
than bushingless ones in these circumstances. The bushings will minimize the lateral flexibility of
the chain.

Additionally, most modern bushingless chains designed for multi-speed use have had their link plates
bulged, bevelled, chamfered, contoured, cut away and otherwise shaped to actually make it easier for
the chain to slide off the gear to which it's currently engaged. That's obviously not a welcome
feature in a track bike. The ideal link profile for a track chain will be a shape that helps keep
the links captive on the sprockets they engage (rather than to facilitate shifting), and the
resulting generous link proportions may also restrict side flex in the chain. That there are limited
choices of
3/32" chains that fit this description any more and that have fully bushed roller support is what
likely keeps 1/8" drivetrain parts the predominant format chosen by track riders.

-------------------------------
businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida 305-273-4440 Now in our
twentieth year. Our catalog of track equipment: seventh year online
-------------------------------

[email hidden] (almost fast) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

\

if you used google to check the ng, yould see this link from the previous thread of the same name

damonrinard.comchain stiffness.htmOpen ↗

speaks to all your questions, i think. cheers

anthony

[email hidden] (ant) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (almost fast) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

\

if you used google to check the ng, yould see this link from the previous thread of the same name

damonrinard.comchain stiffness.htmOpen ↗

speaks to all your questions, i think. cheers

anthony

Thanks! That looks like good info.

Wonder how modern track chains compare? I can measure the ones I've got (SRAM and a few others). Can
anyone measure ones I might consider buying? HKK? IZUMI? Wippermann?

TIA!

Thanks for the info.

So, just to make sure I understand, you're recommending several chain features for a track bike
chain, and if the chainline is good, you're also recommending a stiff chain, right?

Any chance you could measure some of the chains you sell as in that link? Sorry, I don't have the
URL at hand right now...

John Dacey <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(almost fast) said:

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

Lateral chain stiffness has been a quality long prized by track riders. I've given this subject
some thought and, although it may be heretical to suggest, I'm not so sure anymore that lateral
stiffness is by itself a significant virtue. In fact, in situations where the bike's chainline is
compromised, a laterally flexible chain may actually tolerate the resulting deflection better than
a chain whose lack of compliance expects and demands that the chainline be straight.

There are other considerations, however, that militates in favor of chains that are resistant to
side-to-side flex where the chainline *is* accurate. However, the lateral stiffness may be less a
desirable trait in itself than the result of other characteristics that make the chain stiff.
Since Sheldon has made it "Latin Month" on r.b.t., beware of the fallacious logic of "ad hoc, ergo
propter hoc" reasoning.

The rollers of chains that are supported by full bushings will generally have higher load carrying
capabilities than bushingless chains whose rollers are borne by bulges stamped into their inner
link plates. Since many track events put large peak loads on the chain (standing-start time
trials, sprinting, etc.), fully bushed chains should ordinarily be more capable of dealing with
those loads than bushingless ones in these circumstances. The bushings will minimize the lateral
flexibility of the chain.

Additionally, most modern bushingless chains designed for multi-speed use have had their link
plates bulged, bevelled, chamfered, contoured, cut away and otherwise shaped to actually make it
easier for the chain to slide off the gear to which it's currently engaged. That's obviously not a
welcome feature in a track bike. The ideal link profile for a track chain will be a shape that
helps keep the links captive on the sprockets they engage (rather than to facilitate shifting),
and the resulting generous link proportions may also restrict side flex in the chain. That there
are limited choices of
3/32" chains that fit this description any more and that have fully bushed roller support is what
likely keeps 1/8" drivetrain parts the predominant format chosen by track riders.

-------------------------------
businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida 305-273-4440 Now in our
twentieth year. Our catalog of track equipment: seventh year online
-------------------------------

(almost fast) said:

Thanks for the info.

So, just to make sure I understand, you're recommending several chain features for a track bike
chain, and if the chainline is good, you're also recommending a stiff chain, right?

In a properly aligned frame where the combination of crank, bottom bracket and hub work in concert
to provide a straight chainline, I suggest that you use a chain with precision rollers running on
full bushings and that has link plates whose shapes haven't been manipulated to facilitate shifting.
In general, if you find a chain that satisfies these two characteristics, it will likely also be
relatively resistant to lateral flex. That the chain is stiff isn't necessarily an intrinsic virtue
(and may be counterproductive if the chainline is off), but rather just a result of other features
(bushed design, full link plate shapes) that are desirable in a track chain. For what it's worth, I
ordinarily also encourage people to stick with chainrings, sprockets and chains whose nominal width
specifications are all the same (all 1/8" or all 3/32"😉.

The Latin phrase I butchered in my first reply should have read "cum hoc, ergo propter hoc"* (with
this, therefore because of this). If a rider fits a stiff chain on his track bike and finds it works
better than the one it replaced, he might erroneously think that the stiffness alone made the
improvement, rather than properly attributing the changes to full bushings for the rollers and/or
improved shape of the link plates compared to his old one.

Quoted message said:

Any chance you could measure some of the chains you sell as in that link? Sorry, I don't have the
URL at hand right now...

I assume you're referring to the Damon Rinard pages. None whatsoever. As noted above, I don't find
stiffness alone to be the meaningful measure of a track chain's usefulness.

* - Funny how my spellchekcer didn't catch this. Anybody else find it curious that Sheldon B can
apparently speak Latin like a native despite his protests that he's not actually one of the gods?

Quoted message said:

John Dacey <[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know of a few ways to help improve the chances of keeping my chain on (chain line, full tooth
forms, tension). Bushing chains seem stiffer, which I think also helps. What else?

Should I consider bushless chains if I get the rest right? The SRAM PC1 I have seems awfully
flexible and sloppy compared to an old 5-speed 3/32 chain I installed.

Lateral chain stiffness has been a quality long prized by track riders. I've given this subject
some thought and, although it may be heretical to suggest, I'm not so sure anymore that lateral
stiffness is by itself a significant virtue. In fact, in situations where the bike's chainline is
compromised, a laterally flexible chain may actually tolerate the resulting deflection better
than a chain whose lack of compliance expects and demands that the chainline be straight.

There are other considerations, however, that militates in favor of chains that are resistant to
side-to-side flex where the chainline *is* accurate. However, the lateral stiffness may be less a
desirable trait in itself than the result of other characteristics that make the chain stiff.
Since Sheldon has made it "Latin Month" on r.b.t., beware of the fallacious logic of "ad hoc,
ergo propter hoc" reasoning.

The rollers of chains that are supported by full bushings will generally have higher load
carrying capabilities than bushingless chains whose rollers are borne by bulges stamped into
their inner link plates. Since many track events put large peak loads on the chain
(standing-start time trials, sprinting, etc.), fully bushed chains should ordinarily be more
capable of dealing with those loads than bushingless ones in these circumstances. The bushings
will minimize the lateral flexibility of the chain.

Additionally, most modern bushingless chains designed for multi-speed use have had their link
plates bulged, bevelled, chamfered, contoured, cut away and otherwise shaped to actually make it
easier for the chain to slide off the gear to which it's currently engaged. That's obviously not
a welcome feature in a track bike. The ideal link profile for a track chain will be a shape that
helps keep the links captive on the sprockets they engage (rather than to facilitate shifting),
and the resulting generous link proportions may also restrict side flex in the chain. That there
are limited choices of
3/32" chains that fit this description any more and that have fully bushed roller support is what
likely keeps 1/8" drivetrain parts the predominant format chosen by track riders.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles Miami,
Florida 305-273-4440
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now in our twentieth year. Our catalogue of track equipment: seventh
year online