TR: Not Striding Edge

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan
Dicey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Just over a week ago, on a glorious Saturday, we went up Helvellyn from
Glenridding; but NOT by Striding Edge. Pictures and some words at the
link below.

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

Let me know if there are any problems with the page, please.

No probs and excellent photos - thanks.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"Alan Dicey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just over a week ago, on a glorious Saturday, we went up Helvellyn from
Glenridding; but NOT by Striding Edge. Pictures and some words at the
link below.

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

Let me know if there are any problems with the page, please.

Loaded ok for me. I like the idea of the map showing where the photos were
taken. Did you mark each spot on your GPS as you went?

--
Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
http://www.lakelandwalker.co.uk

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Just over a week ago, on a glorious Saturday, we went up Helvellyn from
Glenridding; but NOT by Striding Edge. Pictures and some words at the
link below.

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

That's great Alan, and I agree with other comments that the
map showing where and in which direction the photos were taken
is a seriously good idea. Where was arKate while all this was
going on though?
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

Paul Rose said:

Loaded ok for me. I like the idea of the map showing where the photos were
taken. Did you mark each spot on your GPS as you went?

GPS? What's one of them then?

As noted, I am an old codger, and the Silva compass I used as a Boy
Scout is still good enough for me :-) (Dave does have a GPS though...)
For photolocation, I can pretty well remember roughly where we were when
each shot was taken, and the magic of EXIF tells me exactly *when* each
shot was made. It is then a simple matter to match the scene to a
location - although in at least one case I was wrong - the panorama I
originally ascribed to a Nethermost Pike location clearly shows Hard
Tarn, which is a bit of a giveaway that it was really taken from about
High Crag...

It is not easy to forget standing in one place and slowly rotating while
taking overlapping photographs. The Dollywagon Pike set will stitch up
to a complete 360-degree view. All I need now is the VR headset to look
at it with....

Fran said:

That's great Alan, and I agree with other comments that the
map showing where and in which direction the photos were taken
is a seriously good idea. Where was arKate while all this was
going on though?

Kate was visiting my stepmum in hospital, which was the overriding
reason for our trek North. We had been North the previous weekend when
Mum had been quite well, but she was readmitted the next day and so a
repeat journey was made. (Dave&family live in Washington new Town and
generously provided us accomodation to avoid us imposing additionally on
the parents in South Shields). Dave had already pressed me about
accompanying him on his planned walk (I envy him his easy access to Real
Mountains - the nearest I have is the North Downs) so it was agreed that
I would be walkmate on Saturday and visit the sick on Sunday. As you
can see, it was a damn good day to be on the hills. I wonder if any of
the urw regulars were on Helvellyn or Striding Edge that day - you may
be an almost-unrecognisable blob in one of those panorama's !

The map itself can be snapshotted from Anquet or scanned in from an OS
sheet. I then import it to Visio to add the route line and photo
annotations - Visio being damn good at that sort of vector art. I've
used the same technique on some other walks which are on the website for
your amusement...

On Thu, 26 May 2005 01:04:02 +0100, Alan Dicey <[email hidden]> wrote:

Good material and no significant problem with the page - I couldn't see a means of navigation back
to the Home page, I assume it isn't meant to have one. I found the other walks manually via the
parent directory.

I think you meant the layout to have a red border but it appears in the default colours (grey) -
there are no such attributes as bordercolorlight and bordercolordark.

Quoted message said:

The map itself can be snapshotted from Anquet or scanned in from an OS
sheet. I then import it to Visio to add the route line and photo
annotations - Visio being damn good at that sort of vector art. I've
used the same technique on some other walks which are on the website for
your amusement...

Just a warning in case you didn't know, those map segments on your site are unacknowledged - the OS
mercenaries will be hounding you if they see them, as has happened to other people here.

The photo direction arrows are very good.

Quoted message said:

All I need now is the VR headset to look at it with....

Or animate them with Javascript as we did with ours.

Regards

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

GeoffC said:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 01:04:02 +0100, Alan Dicey <[email hidden]> wrote:

Good material and no significant problem with the page - I couldn't see a means of navigation back
to the Home page, I assume it isn't meant to have one. I found the other walks manually via the
parent directory.

Yes, the walks page is not set up for public consumption as it is mainly
a means for sharing photos with the other members of the party and
interested friends. I started it when two of us did Cader Idris but the
other Dave couldn't make it, so I devised this method of showing him
how the day had gone...

Quoted message said:

I think you meant the layout to have a red border but it appears in the default colours (grey) -
there are no such attributes as bordercolorlight and bordercolordark.

Finger trouble... I highlighted the borders red in Front Page to help me
with laying out the text and photos. Meant to take it off again. I
find Front Page easy to use, and the aim is to present the info simply,
so I'm not interested in anything complicated. I expect the page code
is rather more verbose than it needs to be though.

Quoted message said:

Just a warning in case you didn't know, those map segments on your site are unacknowledged - the OS
mercenaries will be hounding you if they see them, as has happened to other people here.

Ummm... what are my options? Can I simply acknowledge their copyright,
or do I have to pay them a fee, bearing in mind that I'm not selling
anything? What's the position with Harveys, do you know?

Quoted message said:

The photo direction arrows are very good.

Thanks; I am a little concerned that they are rather small, but I want
to obscure as little of the map as possible. I used colour to
distinguish between the panoramas on top of Dollywagon Pike - is it
clear enough, or is there too much information there? I like to present
the field of view of each panorama, as it conveys just how much
head-turning there is in each long strip of image.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All I need now is the VR headset to look at it with....

Or animate them with Javascript as we did with ours.

I might try that - panotools has several options (PAN, IVR, Java IVR,
VRML, QTVR). I am still working over dialup lines, so I need something
that doesn't come out too big.

Thanks for the feedback.

In message <[email hidden]>

Alan Dicey said:

Paul Rose said:

Loaded ok for me. I like the idea of the map showing where the photos were
taken. Did you mark each spot on your GPS as you went?

GPS? What's one of them then?

As noted, I am an old codger, and the Silva compass I used as a Boy
Scout is still good enough for me :-) (Dave does have a GPS though...)
For photolocation, I can pretty well remember roughly where we were when
each shot was taken, and the magic of EXIF tells me exactly *when* each
shot was made. It is then a simple matter to match the scene to a
location - although in at least one case I was wrong - the panorama I
originally ascribed to a Nethermost Pike location clearly shows Hard
Tarn, which is a bit of a giveaway that it was really taken from about
High Crag...

The EXIF standard does include a code for GPS location but few
digital cameras apart from those intended for professional
geological/geographical surveying have this feature enabled.

However if you synchronise the clock in your camera with the clock in
your GPS there are a few pieces of software available out there on the
internet that will extract the appropriate data from a tracklog and edit
it into the EXIF data of a batch of images.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan
Dicey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

GPS? What's one of them then?

G=Good
P=Photographic
S=Site

I think!
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

Alan Dicey said:

Ummm... what are my options? Can I simply acknowledge their copyright,
or do I have to pay them a fee, bearing in mind that I'm not selling
anything? What's the position with Harveys, do you know?

Extract from the OS FAQ:-
-------------
I am a walker wishing to publish my walks on the internet – what licence would I need?

See the free Get-A-Map service on our web site. This allows you to use up to 10 images on your
website. Please read the terms and conditions at:

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/.

If publishing more than 10 images you would require a Paper Map Copying licence.
-------------

It isn't obvious but the license is an annual fee, not a one-off (applies even if you make no
financial gain whatsoever).

Don't know about Harveys.

Quoted message said:

I might try that - panotools has several options (PAN, IVR, Java IVR,
VRML, QTVR). I am still working over dialup lines, so I need something
that doesn't come out too big.

I remember looking at those and I can't remember all the details, but some of them require the
reader to download either a dedicated player like Quicktime or a browser plugin, neither of which I
found satisfactory. It was a lot of work to get a solution that required no additional download at
all.

Best of luck with it.

Regards

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

GeoffC said:

Extract from the OS FAQ:-
-------------
I am a walker wishing to publish my walks on the internet – what licence would I need?

See the free Get-A-Map service on our web site. This allows you to use up to 10 images on your
website. Please read the terms and conditions at:

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/.

If publishing more than 10 images you would require a Paper Map Copying licence.
-------------

It isn't obvious but the license is an annual fee, not a one-off (applies even if you make no
financial gain whatsoever).

Don't know about Harveys.

Thanks for the link. I'll put an OS acknowledgement on the page. The
Harvey Maps site http://www.harveymaps.co.uk/ has not proved helpful
regarding copyright so far - I may have to send an email.

Quoted message said:

I remember looking at those and I can't remember all the details, but some of them require the
reader to download either a dedicated player like Quicktime or a browser plugin, neither of which I
found satisfactory. It was a lot of work to get a solution that required no additional download at
all.

Yes, that worried me too. I'll look at Java IVR first and see if that
can be self-contained. However, since my *prime* audience is pretty
small and I know they all have Quicktime, for instance, it's less of a
problem for me.

GeoffC said:

Alan Dicey said:

I might try that - panotools has several options (PAN, IVR, Java IVR,
VRML, QTVR). I am still working over dialup lines, so I need something
that doesn't come out too big.

I remember looking at those and I can't remember all the details, but some of them require the
reader to download either a dedicated player like Quicktime or a browser plugin, neither of which I
found satisfactory. It was a lot of work to get a solution that required no additional download at
all.

Best of luck with it.

Resurrection! I have worked on-and-off with various free java applets
for panorama viewing, and the results can be seen from the updated page

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

I would welcome feedback on how well the viewers work for you and if any
of them are workable on dialup (I expect only Panaview will be
acceptable on dialup, but need independent review to verify)

I have deliberately linked the viewers to higher-resolution versions of
the panoramas, as one of the features I would like to test is the
ability to zoom in. You can now nearly see the figures on Striding
Edge! The exception is Panaview, which I can't get to work with
anything over about 200MB, and has no zoom capability anyway.

The download size is given by each link, and the new panorama links are
highlighted. You must have Java enabled in your browser for these
viewers to work, and I think that broadband access is probably a good
idea. We have just moved to broadband, so I was able to upload the
modified pages quickly and test them (in Firefox and IE6).

I'd like to know if you find the load time acceptable, if the viewing
controls are adequate and if you find the interactive view better, worse
or just different to the static view. Some of that will depend on your
browser, as, for example, both Firefox and IE allow you to zoom in on
downloaded JPEG's.

Alan Dicey said:

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

I would welcome feedback on how well the viewers work for you and if any
of them are workable on dialup (I expect only Panaview will be
acceptable on dialup, but need independent review to verify)

Alan, I just had a go at one of your panoramas using Firefox on a Linux
machine on the university network (so, no major bottleneck usually).
It does work, but it takes quite a while to load. The 720kB panorama
took about 20s to produce a grid without a photograph on it, then another
30s for the top about 20% of the image. The rest of the image came about
two minutes later in one chunk. It didn't indicate that it was still
busy, so I would probably have abandoned it if I hadn't been testing
this. The zooming and moving works fine once it's fully loaded.

So, I guess I would have to have a particular interest in one of the
images to be sufficiently patient, e.g. when planning a route. Maybe
you're a bit ahead of the technology there!

Apart from that - great photos!
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales

Rudi Winter said:

Alan Dicey said:

http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/index.htm

I would welcome feedback on how well the viewers work for you and if any
of them are workable on dialup (I expect only Panaview will be
acceptable on dialup, but need independent review to verify)

Alan, I just had a go at one of your panoramas using Firefox on a Linux
machine on the university network (so, no major bottleneck usually).
It does work, but it takes quite a while to load. The 720kB panorama
took about 20s to produce a grid without a photograph on it, then another
30s for the top about 20% of the image. The rest of the image came about
two minutes later in one chunk. It didn't indicate that it was still
busy, so I would probably have abandoned it if I hadn't been testing
this. The zooming and moving works fine once it's fully loaded.

OK. I've judst tried it and got the grid in 3 seconds and the full pic
in a total of 9 seconds, and I flushed the cache first. Using Firefox
1.04. I would guess the 720KB one is the first one you come to, St.
Sunday Crag + Fairfield from The Tongue. Try the Dollywagon Pike summit
360 panoramas, as I have given options for three viewers there,
PTViewer, JSphere Lite and Panaview. Panaview is the smallest and
fastest (but doesn't zoom), PTviewer the smoothest.

It sounds as though my ISP's server was slow, or perhaps you were
browsing at a busy time for your network e.g. lunchtime, when
everybody's taking recreational breaks surfing the net? ;-)

Quoted message said:

So, I guess I would have to have a particular interest in one of the
images to be sufficiently patient, e.g. when planning a route. Maybe
you're a bit ahead of the technology there!

I've tried to use the smallest freeware Java applets I can find, and
they are all much smaller than the panoramas themselves. Some of the
delay is the image being processed for display - perhaps I need to put a
warning note up.

Quoted message said:

Apart from that - great photos!

Thanks - it was a great day.

Alan Dicey said:

It sounds as though my ISP's server was slow, or perhaps you were
browsing at a busy time for your network e.g. lunchtime, when
everybody's taking recreational breaks surfing the net? ;-)

Yes - it was over lunch. I tried again Thu evening but it still
took about a minute. Mind you, this computer isn't exactly optimised
for anything "multimedia"!

Quoted message said:

I've tried to use the smallest freeware Java applets I can find, and
they are all much smaller than the panoramas themselves. Some of the
delay is the image being processed for display - perhaps I need to put a
warning note up.

Maybe you can get it to show a little progress indicator?
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales