[TR] Linhope Spout and a GPS-use question

23 February 2004, 12:03 UTC

Aye, I did, I went for a bimble yesterday, a walky bimble that is, to Linhope Spout... and
missed it!!

Another cold, cold day, valley temp of 5degC but a northerly wind at 25-30kts and it felt
like flensing time for exposed flesh!! Strangely enough there was no-one else in the Ingram
Valley that day.

Plodded up the line of the road to the fort on Knock Hill. Gosh, the slopes up to Brough Law from
this side look mean! Ridge walk to trig point, hang a left and a long ridge walk to Dunmoor Hill.
Ouch, horizontal hailstone, thankfully short-lived. Ait temp 1.6degC, oh that makes me feel so-oo
much better, that extra .6deg, now all I need is someone to stop the wind and I'm puttin' me
shorts on.

Thought I'd play clever, take a bearing to Linhope Spout to confirm line-of-sight. No way! Ah!!
metal Flasks and compii (sic.) don't mix. Adjust position, still there's no way, re-check bearing,
no need to adjust for mag bearing 'cos just looking for general direction. Hmm, defintely "over
there" and not where I would have headed.

Take line of bearing, fix on landscape, put compass away.

Fifty metres, is this right?? Looking down. Surely there's no col giving flow to the north, yet I
can see a definite valley then a col then a valley. Map show no such. Bollox map.

Aim off, I know I want the valley that goes south, so aim off from the south of this col. Its
obvious, the map's wrong. Aim off, you be right blue.

That col is bugging me, stop to check again, everything lines up; Linhope Burn from the West,
Dunmoor Burn from the north... but it can't, there's that col, stopping it. Gah! Continue to aim, at
least I can see a point I recognise and head for.

Perspective and foreshortening, well, now then there's two words. The col didn't exist, its was a
shoulder and I "missed" Linhope Spout, saw it well enough, about half a mile to the north and I'd
had enough uphills, besides it was snowing again.

Hah! Secondary objective; "waterfall", hove up right on top of it. Ah well, nailed at least one.

Short walk impersonating Haggis (traverse steep slope, wishing one leg was longer than the other),
Linhope, hmm, quaint.

Trudge down road to car.

Just to give a general idea of where i was, here a StreetMap page:
streetmap.co.ukstreetmap.dll

the walk started at the car park, here:
streetmap.co.ukstreetmap.dll

While I'm here, a quick question; I'm using an eTrex Summit (hehe, no, not for navigation ;-) and
its limited to 3000 track points... which means my track-logs are truncated as it overwrites the
early stages of the track. Is there any way around this?

What I want to do is to have a complete log of walk, eos. What handy tricks do other folk use to
save the entire track?

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

23 February 2004, 18:33 UTC

Steve Orrell said:
While I'm here, a quick question; I'm using an eTrex Summit (hehe, no, not for navigation ;-) and
its limited to 3000 track points... which means my track-logs are truncated as it overwrites the
early stages of the track. Is there any way around this?

Switch it off when stationary.

and/or

Use battery save mode (reduces number of trackpoints taken) -- but this won't work unless sky
view is good.

and/or

Save track half-way through day and either start again or let it wrap round. You can save 10 tracks
in this way. They get compressed, but it still preserves most of the detail. If there's a special
bit where you want to preserve a lot of detail, save that bit of track on its own -- the smaller the
track, the less it gets compressed.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

23 February 2004, 20:14 UTC

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:09:03 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

Ah hah!

Quoted message said:
Steve Orrell writes:

who, moi?

Quoted message said:
Switch it off when stationary.

I'm not still long enough... not that I'm off like a whippet rather that I tend to fidget ;-)

Quoted message said:
Use battery save mode (reduces number of trackpoints taken) -- but this won't work unless sky
view is good.

Hmm, possibility, but there's the "unless" factor.

Quoted message said:
Save track half-way through day

Chris, thanks for suggestions and the extra info here re. the loss of some data on the saved tracks.

In between posting and coming back this evening I'd looked at and tried that option with my track
from the weekend... and it seems to have worked... Initially I wondered if the "99% memory used"
referred to _all_ memory and because of that saving was of no use. Obviously not :-) I only managed
to "break" it twice.... we-ll it was taking such a long time saving the track that I thought it had
crashed. ;-) <oops>

TBH I was wondering if there was something obvious I was missing in terms of altering the sampling
rate, but I think that was just wishful thinking on my part.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

24 February 2004, 15:12 UTC

Steve Orrell said:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:09:03 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:
Ah hah!
Quoted message said:
Steve Orrell writes:
who, moi?
Quoted message said:
Switch it off when stationary.

My Vista doesn't record track points while stationary, anyway.

Quoted message said:

I'm not still long enough... not that I'm off like a whippet rather that I tend to fidget ;-)
Quoted message said:
Use battery save mode (reduces number of trackpoints taken) -- but this won't work unless sky view
is good.
Hmm, possibility, but there's the "unless" factor.
Quoted message said:
Save track half-way through day
Chris, thanks for suggestions and the extra info here re. the loss of some data on the
saved tracks.
In between posting and coming back this evening I'd looked at and tried that option with my track
from the weekend... and it seems to have worked... Initially I wondered if the "99% memory used"
referred to _all_ memory and because of that saving was of no use. Obviously not :-) I only managed
to "break" it twice.... we-ll it was taking such a long time saving the track that I thought it had
crashed. ;-) <oops>
TBH I was wondering if there was something obvious I was missing in terms of altering the sampling
rate, but I think that was just wishful thinking on my part.
SteveO
NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php
NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

My Vista allows quite far-reaching control of the sampling rate - I use Main Menu/Tracks/setup
track log (on the top button thingy next to the X). I can adjust 'record method' to be
auto/distance/time, and 'interval' to be most/more/normal/less/least often. I can also set 'wrap
when full' to be on or off.

Incidentally, looking back at some track logs, a typical Lake District one from 09:30 to 17:45 took
around 2500 points set to 'auto' and 'normal' and gave me a very clear track when overlaid in OZI.

I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.

Jim Hutton

24 February 2004, 18:14 UTC

Jim Hutton <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

My Vista doesn't record track points while stationary, anyway.

Surely it depends on the quality of reception of the satellites? Mine has done a few excursions when
left on my windowsill. I also have mine set on most frequent track point logging.

Quoted message said:

My Vista allows quite far-reaching control of the sampling rate - I use Main Menu/Tracks/setup
track log (on the top button thingy next to the X). I can adjust 'record method' to be
auto/distance/time, and 'interval' to be most/more/normal/less/least often. I can also set 'wrap
when full' to be on or off.
Incidentally, looking back at some track logs, a typical Lake District one from 09:30 to 17:45 took
around 2500 points set to 'auto' and 'normal' and gave me a very clear track when overlaid in OZI.
I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.

Yep! It's a good 'un, isn't it? I use it set to auto and the interval to most often, and a maximum
log of 5000 points which I have never filled on a walk or drive.
--
Gordon

25 February 2004, 13:17 UTC

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:24:29 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.

Yep! It's a good 'un, isn't it? I use it set to auto and the interval to most often, and a maximum
log of 5000 points which I have never filled on a walk or drive.

GRRRR!!

Not that I'm jealous or nowt :-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

25 February 2004, 16:33 UTC

Steve Orrell <?@?.?> wrote

Quoted message said:

While I'm here, a quick question; I'm using an eTrex Summit (hehe, no, not for navigation ;-) and
its limited to 3000 track points... which means my track-logs are truncated as it overwrites the
early stages of the track. Is there any way around this?

Yes - get an Etrex Vista, that will give you plenty of trackpoints, and ironically be more
economical in dropping 'em, even on maximum auto frequency.
--
Gordon

26 February 2004, 09:19 UTC

Jim Hutton said:
Steve Orrell said:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:09:03 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Switch it off when stationary.
My Vista doesn't record track points while stationary, anyway.

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I'm not still long enough... not that I'm off like a whippet rather that I tend to fidget ;-)
Quoted message said:
Use battery save mode (reduces number of trackpoints taken) -- but this won't work unless sky
view is good.
Hmm, possibility, but there's the "unless" factor.
Quoted message said:
Save track half-way through day

Save it every hour or so for least loss of detail, but you lose information from the points when you
save. The active log in the Summit contains position, time and height data and when you save you may
just have position.

Quoted message said:
My Vista allows quite far-reaching control of the sampling rate

<snip>

Quoted message said:
I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.

But Steve's got an eTrex Summit which has limited track capacity and no way of altering the sampling
rate. A bad example of Garmin firmware.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

26 February 2004, 09:32 UTC

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook <urwalk@p-t-
cook.RfErMeOeVsEeCrAvPeS.co.uk> writes [snip]

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>Save track half-way through day
Save it every hour or so for least loss of detail, but you lose information from the points when
you save. The active log in the Summit contains position, time and height data and when you save
you may just have position.

It only looses the times, altitude and position are retained. It is a shame about ditching the times
as most people are interested in not just where they went but when they were there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
My Vista allows quite far-reaching control of the sampling rate

<snip>
Quoted message said:
I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.
But Steve's got an eTrex Summit which has limited track capacity and no way of altering the
sampling rate. A bad example of Garmin firmware.

And it has an overzealous trackpoint algorithm so the 3000 points, which should easily be enough for
a day out, get eaten too quickly :-(

The same problem was fixed on the standard yellow eTrex and the Euro version but was not addressed
in the Summit.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.uk

26 February 2004, 10:33 UTC

Phil Cook said:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:01:19 +0000, Jim Hutton wrote:

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:41:47 +0000, Steve Orrell wrote:

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:09:03 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>Save track half-way through day

Quoted message said:
Save it every hour or so for least loss of detail, but you lose information from the points when
you save. The active log in the Summit contains position, time and height data and when you save
you may just have position.

You can be more selective. Most of the time you're not interested in detail, sometimes it's very
important. I'll often save a whole walk as one track (rarely walk enough to need two), and also save
one interesting nadgery bit in the middle as a magnified (because less compressed) track on its own.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

26 February 2004, 11:12 UTC

Quoted message said:
It only looses the times, altitude and position are retained. It is a shame about ditching the
times as most people are interested in not just where they went but when they were there.

I know. I think I have just lost my track records from last week in Scotland (PDA problem) and they
would have been mighty useful to know where I was when a certain photo was taken.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

27 February 2004, 10:45 UTC

Jim Hutton <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:24:29 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]> wrote:
I use it set to auto and the
Quoted message said:
interval to most often, and a maximum log of 5000 points which I have never filled on a walk
or drive.
10,000 trackpoints with the latest software version. Mine is 3.50.

So is mine, but I set it to 5000. I decided after a bit of experimenting that I would never reach
5000 other than on long drives, or a combined drive/walk/drive home. In those circumstances I would
separate the logs in OziExplorer rather than save them and lose some detail.

I haven't worked out why I didn't use the maximum, but feel that there may be some advantage. :-)

Quoted message said:
Incidentally, I think it's great that Garmin provide regular upgrades of the software which you can
download free from their website.
I've never filled the 10,000 either, but it came in useful when I hadn't got access to a computer
over a few days on the fells. As you are aware, saving the tracks loses some information.
Jim Hutton

Ah, I should have read that bit before I started replying.
--
Gordon

27 February 2004, 10:45 UTC

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:24:29 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:
Jim Hutton <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:

My Vista doesn't record track points while stationary, anyway.

Surely it depends on the quality of reception of the satellites? Mine has done a few excursions
when left on my windowsill. I also have mine set on most frequent track point logging.

Quite true, you can get some high speed leaps if the thing loses lock while stationary.

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

My Vista allows quite far-reaching control of the sampling rate - I use Main Menu/Tracks/setup
track log (on the top button thingy next to the X). I can adjust 'record method' to be
auto/distance/time, and 'interval' to be most/more/normal/less/least often. I can also set 'wrap
when full' to be on or off.
Incidentally, looking back at some track logs, a typical Lake District one from 09:30 to 17:45
took around 2500 points set to 'auto' and 'normal' and gave me a very clear track when
overlaid in OZI.
I'm spoilt - the Vista will do 10,000 pts with the latest software upgrade.

Yep! It's a good 'un, isn't it? I use it set to auto and the interval to most often, and a maximum
log of 5000 points which I have never filled on a walk or drive.

10,000 trackpoints with the latest software version. Mine is 3.50. Incidentally, I think it's great
that Garmin provide regular upgrades of the software which you can download free from their website.

I've never filled the 10,000 either, but it came in useful when I hadn't got access to a computer
over a few days on the fells. As you are aware, saving the tracks loses some information.

Jim Hutton

[TR] Linhope Spout and a GPS-use question

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