Touring Rim Advice

John Everett said:

A few years ago my touring bike's (Fuji Touring Series) rear wheel
(Alex AL DA-16 rim) was mangled in an accident. At the time I tried to
find a replacement DA-16, but they seem to be an OEM rim unavailable
in the US. I pulled off the old rim, bent it back into a semblance of
round and flat, and relaced the wheel. I've been riding on it for
almost four years but have never been happy with the rear wheel. I
can't get even spoke tension and a couple of the spokes keep coming
loose.

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims. He recommended Mavic
A719s.

So now I'm about to re-rim the Fuji's wheels and checked prices on the
A719. Looks like about $75 per, which with new spokes brings the cost
to significantly more than half the $300 I paid for the Fuji (used)
some years ago. While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?

Also, does anyone know the ERD of the CR18?

612

DA16 is 597

A Velocity Aero is 596, close enough to swap spoke by spoke. Might not
be robust enough, I'm not familiar enough with it.

If it was my bike, I'd rebuild the hub with Alex DM18s or Adventurers
with double butted Sapim spokes. Those rims are cheap at around $20,
and strong as hell. The Dm18 seems to me to be more or less a CR18
clone, but for a tenner less.

If you're hauling major weight, then you might have to slum and go for
a fully socketed French number.

John Everett said:

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims. He recommended Mavic
A719s.

That rim was nothing but a huge and expensive disappointment for me.
I recommend anything else in the same weight class over the A719. But
I have a more specific recommendation; read on.

Quoted message said:

While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?

Also, does anyone know the ERD of the CR18?

It's 611mm. But there's a better, cheaper rim available. The Alex
DM18 has never cost me more than $20 and it's stronger than either the
CR18 or the A719. Its ERD is 610mm.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RI308A06.aspx

The Alex Adventurer is a particularly good rim with an ERD of 608 if
that works better for you:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RI308A07.aspx

Chalo

landotter said:

If you're hauling major weight, then you might have to slum and go for
a fully socketed French number.

Sockets don't help when the non-heat-treated welded joint is soft as
putty.

Chalo

John Everett said:

A few years ago my touring bike's (Fuji Touring Series) rear wheel
(Alex AL DA-16 rim) was mangled in an accident. At the time I tried to
find a replacement DA-16, but they seem to be an OEM rim unavailable
in the US. I pulled off the old rim, bent it back into a semblance of
round and flat, and relaced the wheel. I've been riding on it for
almost four years but have never been happy with the rear wheel. I
can't get even spoke tension and a couple of the spokes keep coming
loose.

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims. He recommended Mavic
A719s.

So now I'm about to re-rim the Fuji's wheels and checked prices on the
A719. Looks like about $75 per, which with new spokes brings the cost
to significantly more than half the $300 I paid for the Fuji (used)
some years ago. While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?

Also, does anyone know the ERD of the CR18?

--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

CR18 ERD = 612 mm
CR18 is a decent rim, but samples vary; some have eyelets - some don't. Some have tight & well aligned rim joint - some don't. I have even had ERD vary enough between samples that the ERD went down to 608 mm. It is a little tougher to predict precisely what you will get.
I think a better choice is Velocity Dyad, at somewhere in between the prices you mention. Available in silver or black, and 32, 36, 40, & 48H.
What width tire will you use?
What spoke count?
What loads will you carry?
Anything else to consider; like color, desire for eyelets, etc.?

Chalo said:

landotter said:

If you're hauling major weight, then you might have to slum and go for
a fully socketed French number.

Sockets don't help when the non-heat-treated welded joint is soft as
putty.

I noticed that when I built up some used non-socketed Mavics this past
summer. Compared to even a cheap Alex x404--the joints were le
fromage. So you're saying that Mavics do indeed suck all the way
across the board? I'm not surprised.

Chalo said:

It's 611mm. But there's a better, cheaper rim available. The Alex
DM18 has never cost me more than $20 and it's stronger than either the
CR18 or the A719. Its ERD is 610mm.

Heh, I knew I'd hear from the other Alex fanboy here. That DM18 rim is
the most durable thing I've ever ridden. Build up right and throw away
the spoke wrench good!

On Jan 24, 1:30 pm, daveornee <daveornee.33p...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

John Everett said:

A few years ago my touring bike's (Fuji Touring Series) rear wheel
(Alex AL DA-16 rim) was mangled in an accident. At the time I tried to
find a replacement DA-16, but they seem to be an OEM rim unavailable
in the US. I pulled off the old rim, bent it back into a semblance of
round and flat, and relaced the wheel. I've been riding on it for
almost four years but have never been happy with the rear wheel. I
can't get even spoke tension and a couple of the spokes keep coming
loose.

Quoted message said:

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims. He recommended Mavic
A719s.

Quoted message said:

So now I'm about to re-rim the Fuji's wheels and checked prices on the
A719. Looks like about $75 per, which with new spokes brings the cost
to significantly more than half the $300 I paid for the Fuji (used)
some years ago. While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?

CR18 is a decent rim, but samples vary; some have eyelets - some don't.
Some have tight & well aligned rim joint - some don't.  I have even had
ERD vary enough between samples that the ERD went down to 608 mm.  It is
a little tougher to predict precisely what you will get.
I think a better choice is Velocity Dyad, at somewhere in between the
prices you mention.  Available in silver or black, and 32, 36, 40, &
48H.

I've got one of each (CR18 and Dyad). I had some issues with the CR18
and Continental tires, but by the time my Dyad wheel arrived, I'd
canned the Continental (long story).

Either makes a good wheel, when built up well.

Pat

Quoted message said:

Chalo wrote: landotter said:

Quoted message said:

If you're hauling major weight, then you might have to slum and go for
a fully socketed French number.

Sockets don't help when the non-heat-treated welded joint is soft as
putty.

landotter said:

I noticed that when I built up some used non-socketed Mavics this past
summer. Compared to even a cheap Alex x404--the joints were le
fromage. So you're saying that Mavics do indeed suck all the way
across the board? I'm not surprised.

Some earlier Mavic generations in that series were good, the #217, which
was stock on Santanas at the time, and the even older Module #4 tandem rim.
(I wrote and deleted something much less kind) Suffice to say we were
once 80% Mavic for wheelbuilding here but built one pair all last season.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

John Everett said:

...
So now I'm about to re-rim the Fuji's wheels and checked prices on the
A719. Looks like about $75 per, which with new spokes brings the cost
to significantly more than half the $300 I paid for the Fuji (used)
some years ago. While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?...

Apparently the Mavic rim offers $47 worth of European Heritage &
Mystique [TM] that the Sun rim lacks!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

I had no problems building up some Sun-Ringles, but that's just
anecdotal evidence. However, the Alex rim does not have ferrules and
weight significantly more (if I'm getting the right numbers off the
Web), so it's cheaper but not identical.

Either choice is a whole lot better than dropping $75 for a rim.
Jeesh.

JG

landotter said:

Chalo said:

landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you're hauling major weight, then you might have to slum and go for
a fully socketed French number.

Quoted message said:

Sockets don't help when the non-heat-treated welded joint is soft as
putty.

I noticed that when I built up some used non-socketed Mavics this past
summer. Compared to even a cheap Alex x404--the joints were le
fromage. So you're saying that Mavics do indeed suck all the way
across the board? I'm not surprised.

I can't speak for Open Pros or any of the other ones that are composed
of secret special alloy. I can only discuss the recent ones I've
tried, which are known to be made from 6106 (no, not 6061) alloy, the
weakest 6000-series alloy around (but one which produces cosmetically
nice extrusions).

As Andy Muzi says, there were nice ones once upon a time. On the
occasions when I spared no expense in the '80s and early '90s, I
wouldn't have settled for less. Open 4, MA2, and MA40 were good for
folks lighter than myself; Module 3 and 4 were excellent; and the
Oxygen M6 was heroically stout despite having a braking surface so
narrow that it would qualify as a disc-specific rim today. The M231/
M261/M281 series had a few problems owing to brittle alloy and mighty
thin sidewalls for clincher rims. After those, I never came across a
Mavic rim that was worth the trouble, let alone the ever-increasing
cost.

I admit that I was never in the market for their light 'n racy road
bike offerings, so I have little direct experience with those. Many
of the complaints I've seen about those look awfully familiar,
though.

Chalo

JG said:

However, the Alex rim does not have ferrules and
weight significantly more (if I'm getting the right numbers off the
Web), so it's cheaper but not identical.

I have seen specimens of the DM24 both with and without eyelets, but
so far every DM18 I have encountered had them.

Other rims I have seen in both eyeleted and plain drilled versions are
the Bontrager Clyde and the Rigida Zac 19.

Chalo

I'm sorry, I misread the specs. The DM18 comes with or without
eyelets.
JG

John Everett said:

A few years ago my touring bike's (Fuji Touring Series) rear wheel
(Alex AL DA-16 rim) was mangled in an accident. At the time I tried to
find a replacement DA-16, but they seem to be an OEM rim unavailable
in the US. I pulled off the old rim, bent it back into a semblance of
round and flat, and relaced the wheel. I've been riding on it for
almost four years but have never been happy with the rear wheel. I
can't get even spoke tension and a couple of the spokes keep coming
loose.

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims.

Alex Adventurer is the perfect combo of tough and inexpensive. It's
what Surly spes as the stock rim on the Long Haul Trucker. They
usually go for under $25 each

If you want a little more high-zoot, Salsa Delgado Cross are very
nice, and what I have on my touring bike. About $35 each.

quote='Chalo'JG said:

However, the Alex rim does not have ferrules and
weight significantly more (if I'm getting the right numbers off the
Web), so it's cheaper but not identical.

I have seen specimens of the DM24 both with and without eyelets, but
so far every DM18 I have encountered had them.

Other rims I have seen in both eyeleted and plain drilled versions are
the Bontrager Clyde and the Rigida Zac 19.

Chalo[/QUOTE]
Some Alex rims have SSE Option (Stainless Steel Eyelets).
Chalo,
Have you used Alex Rims G6000 and/or Crostini 1.2 with offset spoke holes for rear??

JG said:

I'm sorry, I misread the specs. The DM18 comes with or without
eyelets.
JG

For what it's worth, I can get 32 hole DM 18s with or without eyelets, but 36 hole are without only. This is true of both 26" and 700c sizes.
I've built numerous wheels with these rims, and I like them a lot. I use them on 2 of my own bikes.

daveornee said:

Have you used Alex Rims G6000 and/or Crostini 1.2 with offset spoke
holes for rear??

Nope. I am heavy and I use fat tires and high spoke count wheels, so
there are entire categories or rims that I've scarcely tried, let
alone used up. In narrow rims (less than 22mm outside width), I have
owned Velocity Deep-V, Sun M13II, and Matrix Iso-C ATB. I've built
and serviced a lot of skinny rims, but neither of the ones you
mention.

My confidence in Alex rims derives from their use of 6061-T6 alloy and
non-stingy cross-sections, along with good consistency and roundness.
In every case where one of their rims has a clear spiritual parent,
the Alex rim is sturdier than the predecessor-- the DM18 is stronger
than the Sun CR18, the DM24 outclasses the Rhyno Lite, the Alex X101
beats the Araya VP20, etc.

The only double eyeleted Alex rim I've ever seen or used is the Supra
RX, a massive pinned-joint freestyle rim in ISO 406. It has stainless
sockets, I believe just to keep nipples from escaping into the
cavernous single rim channel where they could evade capture for a long
time.

Chalo

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Everett said:

A few years ago my touring bike's (Fuji Touring Series) rear wheel
(Alex AL DA-16 rim) was mangled in an accident. At the time I tried to
find a replacement DA-16, but they seem to be an OEM rim unavailable
in the US. I pulled off the old rim, bent it back into a semblance of
round and flat, and relaced the wheel. I've been riding on it for
almost four years but have never been happy with the rear wheel. I
can't get even spoke tension and a couple of the spokes keep coming
loose.

Last fall I was killing some time in Idaho Springs, Colorado and
stopped in at Jerry Seigel's shop. We talked a little wheelbuilding
and I asked his opinion on replacement rims. He recommended Mavic
A719s.

So now I'm about to re-rim the Fuji's wheels and checked prices on the
A719. Looks like about $75 per, which with new spokes brings the cost
to significantly more than half the $300 I paid for the Fuji (used)
some years ago. While at Lickton's web site I noticed the Sun CR18 for
$28 per. Does anyone here have an opinion about the CR18?

Also, does anyone know the ERD of the CR18?

Do not know the ERD. CR-18 is an excellent rim.
They come round, take plenty of spoke tension,
and build up into a durable wheel. I even like
the look: shiny and flat surfaces.

--
Michael Press