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touring drivetrain

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12 June 2004
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riano
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  1. A couple years ago I bought a Bianchi San Remo which was described as a "touring bike." I have since found that even unloaded I have to stand to pump up steeper hills. This is fine except I will want lower gears for loaded touring.

    Hub Question:

    I gather that I can't get cogs any larger than 28 for the Campy hub. I am thinking of switching to Shimano or SRAM to get into those 30+ tooth cogs. Do campy and shimano road hubs have the same dropout spacing? If so, are shimano cogsets specific to road or mountain hubs or can they be interchanged (ie can I put a 9spd mountain cogset on a 9spd road hub?)

    Crankset Question:

    Similar question here- I may just try to put a smaller little chainring on the campy crank, but I'm also thinking of switching cranksets. Are campy bottom brackets of a standard type which I could put a mountain crank on? If not, can I put a BB in that will work?

    My knees thank you all in advance,
    Ryan

  2. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by riano
    A couple years ago I bought a Bianchi San Remo which was described as a "touring bike." I have since found that even unloaded I have to stand to pump up steeper hills. This is fine except I will want lower gears for loaded touring.

    Hub Question:

    I gather that I can't get cogs any larger than 28 for the Campy hub. I am thinking of switching to Shimano or SRAM to get into those 30+ tooth cogs. Do campy and shimano road hubs have the same dropout spacing? If so, are shimano cogsets specific to road or mountain hubs or can they be interchanged (ie can I put a 9spd mountain cogset on a 9spd road hub?)


    Crankset Question:

    Similar question here- I may just try to put a smaller little chainring on the campy crank, but I'm also thinking of switching cranksets. Are campy bottom brackets of a standard type which I could put a mountain crank on? If not, can I put a BB in that will work?

    My knees thank you all in advance,
    Ryan

    Current road hubs are the same 130 width over locknut, and mtb hubs are 135. You will have issues trying to run a shimano cassette and mtb RD with campy shifters.You can use a geanny ring as small as a 22, and that's the cheap way. If you use a mtb crank,you ill need a new matching BB.

  3. Well, I'll do my best to tackle this one...

    Dropout spacing is the same between Campy & Shimano; I believe its 135mm - That part is standardized.

    Also, Yes - Shimano MTB cassettes can be installed onto Shimano (or clone) road hubs.
    In the past, I have used an Ultegra (8 speed) cassette on a White Ti hub, as well as an XTR (12-28 I believe) cassette on a road wheel.
    I will tell you the shifting was not quite perfect in either case - Just annoying enough to be distracting. Although, there may have been other factors such as less-than-new chains, and less-than-new cassettes themselves. I suspect that a brand new cassette, in conjunction with a brand new chain should shift & work quite fine together.

    So, you could, conceivably, install a Shimano road wheel, with an MTB cassette to get your desired gears.
    There are, however a few significant problems with this...

    First, and most significant is the shifter/cogset spacing & compatibility- In other words: How far do the Campy shifters move the derailleur vs the exact distance between the rear cogs.
    I do not know the figures off hand, but you could research that part.
    *If* the spacing the same or very, very close, it *should* work, but they simply may not work together when assembled & actually ridden in the real world.
    You might then need to add Shimano shifters to get it to work - Pretty much a mutt-bike at that point!

    I think you realize that there's just no putting a Shimano cassette on a Campy hub - So don't even think it! 😉

    Another option:

    I believe your San Remo has Campy Mirage or Veloce components right?
    The simplest fix would be install a triple crankset.
    No problem, Campy makes several triple cranks in either 30-40-50 or -30-42-52 chainrings, but there's a hitch...
    Most likely the O.E. derailleurs are of short cage/twin crank specs, so you would also need to replace both derailleurs in addition to the new crankset.

    You *may* also need a longer BB to work with the triple cranks - But not always - Check with Campy or a good knowledgeable Campy source to confirm.
    By the way: No, You cannot use Campy BB's with Shimano cranks or vice-versa.
    The length and angle of the flats is different. I believe Campy uses a 1-degree bevel with long flats, while Shimano uses shorter flats & a 2-degree bevel.
    Completely incompatible at any rate.

    So, a couple compromises & choices.
    I've mixed & matched many variations of cassettes, hubs, derailleurs & shifters, but never cross-bred between the two species.
    I just don't think you'd have much success getting a Shimano cassette to work acceptably well with the Campy shifters.

    My suggestion would be to install Campy's largest cassette (13-28 I believe), and see if that does the trick - Quick, simple & cheap.

    If you still need to go lower, I think you are looking at a Campy triple crank & replacing both derailleurs (& possibly the bottom bracket).
    *Unless your O.E. derailleurs have the capacity for triple cranks - Check you owner's manual, or research on Campy's website.

    No easy cure - Best of luck!

  4. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Mity Mouse
    Well, I'll do my best to tackle this one...

    Dropout spacing is the same between Campy & Shimano; I believe its 135mm - That part is standardized.

    Also, Yes - Shimano MTB cassettes can be installed onto Shimano (or clone) road hubs.
    In the past, I have used an Ultegra (8 speed) cassette on a White Ti hub, as well as an XTR (12-28 I believe) cassette on a road wheel.
    I will tell you the shifting was not quite perfect in either case - Just annoying enough to be distracting. Although, there may have been other factors such as less-than-new chains, and less-than-new cassettes themselves. I suspect that a brand new cassette, in conjunction with a brand new chain should shift & work quite fine together.

    So, you could, conceivably, install a Shimano road wheel, with an MTB cassette to get your desired gears.
    There are, however a few significant problems with this...

    First, and most significant is the shifter/cogset spacing & compatibility- In other words: How far do the Campy shifters move the derailleur vs the exact distance between the rear cogs.
    I do not know the figures off hand, but you could research that part.
    *If* the spacing the same or very, very close, it *should* work, but they simply may not work together when assembled & actually ridden in the real world.
    You might then need to add Shimano shifters to get it to work - Pretty much a mutt-bike at that point!

    I think you realize that there's just no putting a Shimano cassette on a Campy hub - So don't even think it! 😉

    Another option:

    I believe your San Remo has Campy Mirage or Veloce components right?
    The simplest fix would be install a triple crankset.
    No problem, Campy makes several triple cranks in either 30-40-50 or -30-42-52 chainrings, but there's a hitch...
    Most likely the O.E. derailleurs are of short cage/twin crank specs, so you would also need to replace both derailleurs in addition to the new crankset.

    You *may* also need a longer BB to work with the triple cranks - But not always - Check with Campy or a good knowledgeable Campy source to confirm.
    By the way: No, You cannot use Campy BB's with Shimano cranks or vice-versa.
    The length and angle of the flats is different. I believe Campy uses a 1-degree bevel with long flats, while Shimano uses shorter flats & a 2-degree bevel.
    Completely incompatible at any rate.

    So, a couple compromises & choices.
    I've mixed & matched many variations of cassettes, hubs, derailleurs & shifters, but never cross-bred between the two species.
    I just don't think you'd have much success getting a Shimano cassette to work acceptably well with the Campy shifters.

    My suggestion would be to install Campy's largest cassette (13-28 I believe), and see if that does the trick - Quick, simple & cheap.

    If you still need to go lower, I think you are looking at a Campy triple crank & replacing both derailleurs (& possibly the bottom bracket).
    *Unless your O.E. derailleurs have the capacity for triple cranks - Check you owner's manual, or research on Campy's website.

    No easy cure - Best of luck!

    Really,you shouldn't have. Campy and shimano road rear dropout spacing is 130. If I'm reading the Bainchi specs right, he' s already got a triple. A short cage RD will work with a triple. Campy 9 cog spacing is 4.55mm and shimano is 4.34. I could go on , but.......

  5. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by boudreaux
    Really,you shouldn't have. Campy and shimano road rear dropout spacing is 130. If I'm reading the Bainchi specs right, he' s already got a triple. A short cage RD will work with a triple. Campy 9 cog spacing is 4.55mm and shimano is 4.34. I could go on , but.......

    Huh? 😕

    I'm reading your post in a kinda sarcastic, condescending tone.
    I know how hard it can be to inflect and derive subtle emotions while typing in a forum, so I hope that my suspicion is incorrect.

    You'll please note that while I may not have been exactly correct on a few minor details, I admitted to not knowing a the specs, and I also steered him in the right direction and suggested that he "...check with Campy or a good knowledgeable Campy source to confirm.".

    I simply wanted to point out a few of the possible complications involved.

    Thank you for doing the research for him, and pointing out that you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things Campagnolo and Shimano; Now we all know who to direct our questions to.

    So much for just trying to help...
    Sheesh!🙄

  6. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Mity Mouse


    I'm reading your post in a kinda sarcastic, condescending tone.
    ........................ so I hope that my suspicion is incorrect.

    Wrong again.

  7. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by boudreaux
    Wrong again.

    I was hoping that I was wrong on that part, but, I believe that I was quite right.
    You have actually just managed to confirm my suspicion...

    Gee bud, nice way for a "Senior member" to welcome a newcomer!

    Every internet forum has a few idiots with some sort of ego trip because thay've been around that forum for a long time - You're it around here I guess!:p

    Whatever...:o

  8. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Mity Mouse


    Every internet forum has a few idiots.....

    Bingo....a winner.

  9. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Mity Mouse
    I was hoping that I was wrong on that part, but, I believe that I was quite right.
    You have actually just managed to confirm my suspicion...

    Gee bud, nice way for a "Senior member" to welcome a newcomer!

    Every internet forum has a few idiots with some sort of ego trip because thay've been around that forum for a long time - You're it around here I guess!:p

    Whatever...:o

    hes right tho, all you had to say was throw on a triple and new bb or just a smaller ring if hes already got one, maybe change the fd

  10. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by boudreaux
    Current road hubs are the same 130 width over locknut, and mtb hubs are 135. You will have issues trying to run a shimano cassette and mtb RD with campy shifters.You can use a geanny ring as small as a 22, and that's the cheap way. If you use a mtb crank,you ill need a new matching BB.

    Woopsie....that should read 'a granny ring as small as a 24'.

  11. Thanks everyone. Boudreaux is correct, I already have a triple. I'll start with the 24 ring. Can spacers be interchanged to make the shimano cogset work with my campy derailler or are the individual cogs not separate like they are in my campy set?

    Thanks again
    -R

  12. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by riano
    Thanks everyone. Boudreaux is correct, I already have a triple. I'll start with the 24 ring. Can spacers be interchanged to make the shimano cogset work with my campy derailler or are the individual cogs not separate like they are in my campy set?

    Thanks again
    -R

    24-28 is pretty darn low of a gear

  13. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by riano
    Thanks everyone. Boudreaux is correct, I already have a triple. I'll start with the 24 ring. Can spacers be interchanged to make the shimano cogset work with my campy derailler or are the individual cogs not separate like they are in my campy set?

    Thanks again
    -R

    Check www.branfordbike.com cassette section but I don't think there is a spacer kit that will do what you want,and I also don't think aftermaket casettes with modified spacing use the big cogs you need. You 'll also need a new wheel with a shimano compatible hub to use a shimano casette,since spline patterns are different. Even tho the shimano and campy 9 cog spacing is different,it's close enough that very often a shimano 9 cassette/wheel works with an otherwise 9 speed campy drivetrain. Problem would be in trying to get a campy RD to shift a 32 or 34 cog. Your simpler/cheaper solution is to play around with chainrings or cranks.

  14. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by boudreaux
    Check www.branfordbike.com cassette section but I don't think there is a spacer kit that will do what you want,and I also don't think aftermaket casettes with modified spacing use the big cogs you need.

    Thas a lot of BS small boy! Marchisio makes spacers and cogs that will do just that.

    Now stop acting like you're one smart guy, leave the guy alone and go back to work! :p

  15. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by dennis dee
    Thas a lot of BS small boy! Marchisio makes spacers and cogs that will do just that.

    Now stop acting like you're one smart guy, leave the guy alone and go back to work! :p

    good catch,but big cog only goes to 30 ,and you'd likely give him the campy line about how his RD wouldn't handle it.

  16. No. But what I really wanted to say is that you're full of hooey! LOL

  17. Hi, I got a bad knee too. I ride a Miyata sport/touring 12 speed bike and I was concerned with a 500 mi tour coming up soon. I found on ebay some smaller chainwheels(a 48 and 38)removed the original 52-42 and I had to drop the front deraileur a bit but it shifts ok. Only draw back I find during my training rides is I'm not getting as much speed at the high end but in the city its more practical for touring too. I got the idea from rivendell's website when I saw how they gear their bikes for comfort. Goodluck Mario

    Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by riano
    A couple years ago I bought a Bianchi San Remo which was described as a "touring bike." I have since found that even unloaded I have to stand to pump up steeper hills. This is fine except I will want lower gears for loaded touring.

    Hub Question:

    I gather that I can't get cogs any larger than 28 for the Campy hub. I am thinking of switching to Shimano or SRAM to get into those 30+ tooth cogs. Do campy and shimano road hubs have the same dropout spacing? If so, are shimano cogsets specific to road or mountain hubs or can they be interchanged (ie can I put a 9spd mountain cogset on a 9spd road hub?)


    Crankset Question:

    Similar question here- I may just try to put a smaller little chainring on the campy crank, but I'm also thinking of switching cranksets. Are campy bottom brackets of a standard type which I could put a mountain crank on? If not, can I put a BB in that will work?

    My knees thank you all in advance,
    Ryan

  18. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by dennis dee
    No. But what I really wanted to say is that you're full of hooey! LOL

    The big cog business is the deal killer.

  19. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by robalomalo
    Hi, I got a bad knee too. I ride a Miyata sport/touring 12 speed bike and I was concerned with a 500 mi tour coming up soon. I found on ebay some smaller chainwheels(a 48 and 38)removed the original 52-42 and I had to drop the front deraileur a bit but it shifts ok. Only draw back I find during my training rides is I'm not getting as much speed at the high end but in the city its more practical for touring too. I got the idea from rivendell's website when I saw how they gear their bikes for comfort. Goodluck Mario

    He's already got a 30 small chainring.

  20. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by boudreaux
    The big cog business is the deal killer.

    It takes an idiot to know these. How's your mother?

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