Touring bike weight.......

Quoted message said:

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will need
and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the all in
weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!
Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on
the bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle
great!

If camping the luggage will always weigh 30kg. Dunno why. On the bright
side you're taking too much (we always take too much) so it can be paired
down a bit.
Lighter is indeed better and 30kg is not even nearly too much for your bike
- had that much on an old racer before with no problems.
For (much much) better handling get some lowrider front panniers. Front
and rear panniers are soooooo much better than just the rear when you're
carrying a lot of weight.

Quoted message said:

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the
load ~15kg .

<dribble>

"JToe" <""tod\"@ NO SPAM .com"> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the collective
brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will need
and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the all in
weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on the
bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the load
~15kg .

Cheers for any advice!!!

JToe

Apparently Josie Dew's bike weighs about 65kg fully loaded... and she does a
lot of travelling by bike.

See

http://www.josiedew.co.uk/faq.htm

Cheers, helen s

When I did two weeks camping in Europe recently my luggage weighed in
at ten kilos, plus water and food. I packed, then took stuff out, and
got smaller/lighter stuff, then packed again.

I was happy I had "enough" (might take a corkscrew next time, but
managed) - and everything I took I used. If I were going for two
months I'd probably take a better (heavier) tent. I also didn't take
any cooking gear. Think about what you can take out - have you packed
things you "might" need rather than "definitely" need? Why not wait
until you do need them and buy them there.

You will get used to the handling of the bike after a bit - but be
careful if going anywhere hilly - take your time going up for the sake
of your joints, and be careful coming down - steady braking will heat
up the rims and I have heard of more than one person who has melted a
tyre sidewall like that.

In message <[email hidden]>, JToe writes

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the collective
brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will need
and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the all
in weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on
the bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle
great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the
load ~15kg .

Hmm, 30+ kg of luggage sounds like a lot, not that I have ever weighed
mine. Though as long as the racks or ok I'd expect the bike to cope just
fine. The handling will be very different, but it should be very stable,
you soon get used to it.( I'm assuming rear panniers and front low rider
panniers, with maybe a bit on the rack/handlebar bag, I'd be bit
concerned about all that on the back )

now i don't travel particularly lightly when cyclecamping, but I don't
suppose it's drastically heavier than a backpacking load, and I'd
certainly not want to have 30kg on my back unnecessarily - with
backpacking it's really the food that bumps up the weight as you could
well be away from shops etc. for sometime, but on bike you don't really
need to carry days' worth's of food

I imagine that my gear load excluding food is somewhere in the 15 -20 kg
range

Me thinks you need to look a bit more at what you are taking, or it's
weight
--
Chris French

"JToe" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the collective
brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will need
and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the all in
weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on the
bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the load
~15kg .

Cheers for any advice!!!

JToe

32 kg including water and a couple of paperbacks is on the heavy side, but
plenty of cycle tourists seem to carry more. I probably brought almost that
for a month around Scotland last year. Without actually seeing your packing
list it's a little hard to say if you're bringing too much stuff or if your
equipment isn't the lightest of its kind.

Leave 1 paperback behind, buy a new one when you finish the one you have.

Leave the cell phone, carry phone cards and use pay phones.

How big/heavy is your tent? Can you leave 1/2 the pegs behind? Can you carry
just the rain fly?

How heavy is your sleeping bag? Too warm a bag results in a stinky, sweaty
wet (and therefore less warm) bag, and a dehydrated sleeper in the morning.
Good down bags are light, compact, comfortable and expensive (and hard to
clean). Cheap synthetic bags are bulky, heavy, and easy to clean.

What kind of ground pad do you have? The big thick Therma-Rests are comfy
but heavy, get one of the lighter models. The old style foam pads are cheap
and light, but bulky.

What kind of stove do you have? There are tiny gas canister jobs that are
ridiculously light and compact (MSR Pocket Rocket, etc.). How much fuel are
you carrying? Carry the minimum and buy fuel as you go along.

Cooking gear: do you have more than one pot? Are you willing to eat out of
your pot, saving the weight of a bowl/dish?

Clothing: If you're willing to do a little washing in the sink every night
or so you can reduce the clothing load quite a bit. Think long and hard
about how much clothing you need/want for off the bike.

Camera: Unless you're really an avid photographer it's a little silly to
bring more than a tiny point-and-shoot camera.

Tools: how many tools and spare parts do you really need? Overhaul the bike
before you leave, and think long and hard about how often you use each tool
in your tool kit.

Spread your gear out on your living room floor, scrutinize everything
carefully, and ask yourself how badly you really need each item. You'll be
surprised how much you can do without. Lots of things that get brought "just
in case" never get used, or a reasonable substitute can be bought cheaply if
that "just in case" scenario arises.

If you're really concerned about the bike's handling, try rearranging the
load a bit. Heavy items towards the bottom of the panniers, light stuff on
top, not too much front rear imbalance.
--
mark

chris French said:

In message <[email hidden]>, JToe writes

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the
collective brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will
need and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the
all in weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on
the bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle
great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the
load ~15kg .

Hmm, 30+ kg of luggage sounds like a lot, not that I have ever weighed
mine. Though as long as the racks or ok I'd expect the bike to cope just
fine. The handling will be very different, but it should be very stable,
you soon get used to it.( I'm assuming rear panniers and front low rider
panniers, with maybe a bit on the rack/handlebar bag, I'd be bit
concerned about all that on the back )

now i don't travel particularly lightly when cyclecamping, but I don't
suppose it's drastically heavier than a backpacking load, and I'd
certainly not want to have 30kg on my back unnecessarily - with
backpacking it's really the food that bumps up the weight as you could
well be away from shops etc. for sometime, but on bike you don't really
need to carry days' worth's of food

I imagine that my gear load excluding food is somewhere in the 15 -20 kg
range

Me thinks you need to look a bit more at what you are taking, or it's
weight

Hi, cheers to everyone for the advice, I have shifted the weights
around a bit and centered the front panniers around the front axle and
it feels better!

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here is a
list of all the junk I am taking:

Pair of wproof gloves
Wproof socks
baggy cycling shorts
1 bikesters
1 cycling jersey
3 cycling short liners
3 pairs cycling socks
1 long sleeve jersey
cotton casual trousers
1 boxer shorts
1 cotton shirt
1 medium packtowl
1 flip flops
1 thermarest u-lite
foam thing to sit on
1 walking trainers
sunglasses
small LW radio
compact mirror
sun tan lotion
1 fleece top
2 spare innner tubes
insect repellant
moisturiser
small pot of vaseline
plastic plate and bowl
plastic mug
500ml electrolyte powder
3 dried rice sachets
2 tins tuna
1 lightweight camping meal (from 1996!!!)
2 aluminium pans
msr Whisperlite Intl stove
1L white gas
2 guide books
1 phrase book
4 cup a soups (Aspapragus)
10 ‘Oats So Simple’ sachets + nuts + chocolate to add to them...mmmmm
1 ME ultralight S bag
silk sleeping bag liner
assorted tools (adjustable, torx, spoke key, ) + multitool + zip ties
and spare brake blocks
spare gear cable × 2
spare brake cable
katadyn water filter
iodine drops
chlorine pills
Ortlieb folding bowl
small chopping board
leatherman
bike cover
d lock + cable
small funnel
small digi camera + charger
led torch
cash
contact lenses
first aid kit, pills etc....
mobile and charger
wet wipes
toothbrush
toothpaste
soap
deoderant
bog roll
razor + 2 blades
pump
3 litres water

maps x 3
documents + copies
Paperbacks × 2
Paramo waterproof jacket and bottoms
Tent ~2.1 kg
steel tent pegs * 15
mobile phone + charger
compass
candle lamp
3 spare candles
hat
insect net
tea bags × 10
coffee about 10 cups worth
sugar for coffee
salt (not a lot)
small amount of W/UP liquid
scourer
powdered milk (small bag)
knife fork spoon
small cooking knife
small chopping board
2 sealable plastic tubs
small amount of ziplock plastic bags

phew.....

Cheers!

JToe

Sounds a lot to me. I never weighed my kit but I always seem to take
too much. One thing you must have is spare space for shopping. Loaf, 2
bots wine, one water, tin of cassoulet, bits and bobs can take up one
whole pannier. Also take spare bungies, string or light luggage straps
so you can attach extras, or re-attach paniers with broken hooks.

have a nice time

Dont forget your E111 - we just got back from france where my wife had
emergency hosp treatment which would have cost a bomb

Jacob

JToe' ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com said:

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here
is a list of all the junk I am taking:

Quoted message said:

1 phrase book

Just speak loudly and slowly. That should save you a few grams. ;-)

Tim

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com said:

Hi, cheers to everyone for the advice, I have shifted the weights
around a bit and centered the front panniers around the front axle and
it feels better!

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here is a
list of all the junk I am taking:

<snip>

I'd ditch either the fleece or the jersey.

Do you need a chopping board? why not use a plate instead?

3 litres of water is 3kg. Without going too dry, could you cut this?

IME waterproof trousers are a pain in the bum.

Aluminium pegs instead of steel?

Tim

JToe said:

chris French said:

In message <[email hidden]>, JToe writes

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the
collective brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will
need and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the
all in weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on
the bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle
great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the
load ~15kg .

Hmm, 30+ kg of luggage sounds like a lot, not that I have ever weighed
mine. Though as long as the racks or ok I'd expect the bike to cope just
fine. The handling will be very different, but it should be very stable,
you soon get used to it.( I'm assuming rear panniers and front low rider
panniers, with maybe a bit on the rack/handlebar bag, I'd be bit
concerned about all that on the back )

now i don't travel particularly lightly when cyclecamping, but I don't
suppose it's drastically heavier than a backpacking load, and I'd
certainly not want to have 30kg on my back unnecessarily - with
backpacking it's really the food that bumps up the weight as you could
well be away from shops etc. for sometime, but on bike you don't really
need to carry days' worth's of food

I imagine that my gear load excluding food is somewhere in the 15 -20 kg
range

Me thinks you need to look a bit more at what you are taking, or it's
weight

Hi, cheers to everyone for the advice, I have shifted the weights
around a bit and centered the front panniers around the front axle and
it feels better!

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here is a
list of all the junk I am taking:

Pair of wproof gloves
Wproof socks

forget them, just get wet feet or find a cafe. It isn't exactly the
depths of winter.

Quoted message said:

baggy cycling shorts
1 bikesters
1 cycling jersey
3 cycling short liners
3 pairs cycling socks
1 long sleeve jersey
cotton casual trousers
1 boxer shorts
1 cotton shirt
1 medium packtowl
1 flip flops
1 thermarest u-lite
foam thing to sit on

Use the thermarest or a pannier.

Quoted message said:

1 walking trainers

Why not bin the trainers and take sandals instead of the flip flops.

Quoted message said:

sunglasses
small LW radio
compact mirror
sun tan lotion

Quoted message said:

1 fleece top
2 spare innner tubes

forget one, Europe does have bike shops if you need a second.

Quoted message said:

insect repellant

In the autumn?

Quoted message said:

moisturiser
small pot of vaseline
plastic plate and bowl

Forget the bowl or the plate.

Quoted message said:

plastic mug
500ml electrolyte powder
3 dried rice sachets
2 tins tuna

Tins? Buy just before you need. You are touring Europe, not crossing
the Gobi desert.

Quoted message said:

1 lightweight camping meal (from 1996!!!)
2 aluminium pans
msr Whisperlite Intl stove
1L white gas
2 guide books
1 phrase book
4 cup a soups (Aspapragus)
10 'Oats So Simple' sachets + nuts + chocolate to add to them...mmmmm

How many days will you be not passing a supermarket?

Quoted message said:

1 ME ultralight S bag
silk sleeping bag liner
assorted tools (adjustable, torx, spoke key, ) + multitool + zip ties
and spare brake blocks

Forget. There are bike shops in Europe.

Quoted message said:

spare gear cable × 2

You only need one, then buy another if you must have a spare on board.

Quoted message said:

spare brake cable
katadyn water filter

This is Europe, not the wild west.

Quoted message said:

iodine drops
chlorine pills
Ortlieb folding bowl
small chopping board

Use the plate.

Quoted message said:

leatherman
bike cover

Forget. It isn't needed.

Quoted message said:

d lock + cable
small funnel
small digi camera + charger
led torch
cash
contact lenses
first aid kit, pills etc....

How much of this do you need? My FAK is a handful of the large Melonin
pads, a 2" crepe bandage and a roll of sticky tape. That does plasters
for everything and anything more serious will need a hospital anyway.

Quoted message said:

mobile and charger
wet wipes
toothbrush
toothpaste
soap
deoderant
bog roll
razor + 2 blades
pump
3 litres water

maps x 3
documents + copies
Paperbacks × 2
Paramo waterproof jacket and bottoms

You don't really need the bottoms.

Quoted message said:

Tent ~2.1 kg
steel tent pegs * 15
mobile phone + charger
compass
candle lamp
3 spare candles
hat
insect net

Don't need that with a tent. And by the time you get there you may not
need it.

Quoted message said:

tea bags × 10
coffee about 10 cups worth
sugar for coffee
salt (not a lot)
small amount of W/UP liquid
scourer
powdered milk (small bag)
knife fork spoon

forget the knife, you have the cooking knife.

Quoted message said:

small cooking knife
small chopping board

You have a plate, use that.

Quoted message said:

2 sealable plastic tubs
small amount of ziplock plastic bags

phew.....

Given that Europe has most of the amenities one has come to be familiar
with in UK, try removing everything you have put in 'just in case'.

Tim Hall said:

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com said:

Hi, cheers to everyone for the advice, I have shifted the weights
around a bit and centered the front panniers around the front axle and
it feels better!

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here is a
list of all the junk I am taking:

<snip>

I'd ditch either the fleece or the jersey.

Do you need a chopping board? why not use a plate instead?

3 litres of water is 3kg. Without going too dry, could you cut this?

IME waterproof trousers are a pain in the bum.

Aluminium pegs instead of steel?

Tim

Hi,

You are right,

Removed:

1 Litre of water
1 pkt rice
4 Oats
Plate and Bowl
WProof Trousers
WProof Gloves
500 ml of fuel
L Sleeve Jersey

Keeping the steel pegs though because I dont want to destroy my lovely
alloy ones bashing them in with rocks.

I can feel the difference already!!

JToe.

JToe said:

Tim Hall said:

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com said:

Hi, cheers to everyone for the advice, I have shifted the weights
around a bit and centered the front panniers around the front axle
and it feels better!

Will try and shed some weight, for your information or comment here
is a list of all the junk I am taking:

<snip>

I'd ditch either the fleece or the jersey.

Do you need a chopping board? why not use a plate instead?

3 litres of water is 3kg. Without going too dry, could you cut this?

IME waterproof trousers are a pain in the bum.

Aluminium pegs instead of steel?

Tim

Hi,

You are right,

Removed:

1 Litre of water
1 pkt rice
4 Oats
Plate and Bowl
WProof Trousers
WProof Gloves
500 ml of fuel
L Sleeve Jersey

Keeping the steel pegs though because I dont want to destroy my lovely
alloy ones bashing them in with rocks.

I can feel the difference already!!

JToe.

And the water filter...doh.

In retrospect I do seem to be overpacking a little...thanks for pointing
it out!

JToe.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2 spare innner tubes

forget one, Europe does have bike shops if you need a second.

I'd take two - it is feasible to want to use both.

cheers,
clive

mark said:

"JToe" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Long lime lurker, about to set out on my first longish(about 2 months)
tour in Europe (camping + occasional B+B) wishing to tap the collective
brain!

This is my problem: After loading all the gear that I think I will need
and water, no luxuries apart from a couple of paperbacks, and the all in
weight of bike and gear is about 47kg!!!!

Is this about normal? I know lighter is better, but am I bordering on the
bounds of having a dangerous load? - Bike certainly doesn't handle great!

The bike is a Thorn Raven tour and doesn't weigh too much without the load
~15kg .

Cheers for any advice!!!

JToe

32 kg including water and a couple of paperbacks is on the heavy side, but
plenty of cycle tourists seem to carry more. I probably brought almost that
for a month around Scotland last year. Without actually seeing your packing
list it's a little hard to say if you're bringing too much stuff or if your
equipment isn't the lightest of its kind.

Leave 1 paperback behind, buy a new one when you finish the one you have.

Leave the cell phone, carry phone cards and use pay phones.

How big/heavy is your tent? Can you leave 1/2 the pegs behind? Can you carry
just the rain fly?

How heavy is your sleeping bag? Too warm a bag results in a stinky, sweaty
wet (and therefore less warm) bag, and a dehydrated sleeper in the morning.
Good down bags are light, compact, comfortable and expensive (and hard to
clean). Cheap synthetic bags are bulky, heavy, and easy to clean.

What kind of ground pad do you have? The big thick Therma-Rests are comfy
but heavy, get one of the lighter models. The old style foam pads are cheap
and light, but bulky.

What kind of stove do you have? There are tiny gas canister jobs that are
ridiculously light and compact (MSR Pocket Rocket, etc.). How much fuel are
you carrying? Carry the minimum and buy fuel as you go along.

Cooking gear: do you have more than one pot? Are you willing to eat out of
your pot, saving the weight of a bowl/dish?

Clothing: If you're willing to do a little washing in the sink every night
or so you can reduce the clothing load quite a bit. Think long and hard
about how much clothing you need/want for off the bike.

Camera: Unless you're really an avid photographer it's a little silly to
bring more than a tiny point-and-shoot camera.

Tools: how many tools and spare parts do you really need? Overhaul the bike
before you leave, and think long and hard about how often you use each tool
in your tool kit.

Spread your gear out on your living room floor, scrutinize everything
carefully, and ask yourself how badly you really need each item. You'll be
surprised how much you can do without. Lots of things that get brought "just
in case" never get used, or a reasonable substitute can be bought cheaply if
that "just in case" scenario arises.

If you're really concerned about the bike's handling, try rearranging the
load a bit. Heavy items towards the bottom of the panniers, light stuff on
top, not too much front rear imbalance.

Hi,

Just as a follow up, after a day of throwing out kit and
re-loading/measuring and cycling I have managed to reduce the gear down
to a sightly less leg crippling 26kg!! (including water)

Combined with weighing the bike which was actually nearer 18 kg than the
claimed 15 gives me renewed confidence!

So the ratio of bike and luggage to me(or the other way round!) is now
about:

me 66.5kg
bike + bags: 42kg ~ 0.63ish..

Which seems better...

Once again, Cheers for all the help!

JToe

Tim Hall said:

3 litres of water is 3kg. Without going too dry, could you cut this?

When I cycled the Pyrenees I carried and drank up to 5L of water.

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com said:

Pair of wproof gloves
Wproof socks
baggy cycling shorts
1 bikesters
1 cycling jersey
3 cycling short liners
3 pairs cycling socks
1 long sleeve jersey
cotton casual trousers
1 boxer shorts
1 cotton shirt
1 medium packtowl
1 flip flops
1 thermarest u-lite
foam thing to sit on

Sit on the thermarest

Quoted message said:

1 walking trainers

Take flip flops or trainers.
I took sandals and cycling boots.

Quoted message said:

sunglasses
small LW radio
compact mirror
sun tan lotion
1 fleece top
2 spare innner tubes
insect repellant
moisturiser
small pot of vaseline
plastic plate and bowl

A bowl only will suffice.

Quoted message said:

plastic mug
500ml electrolyte powder
3 dried rice sachets
2 tins tuna

For emergency rations take dried food.

Quoted message said:

1 lightweight camping meal (from 1996!!!)
2 aluminium pans

Bin one. The MSR can's cope with two at a time.

Quoted message said:

msr Whisperlite Intl stove
1L white gas

500ml

Quoted message said:

2 guide books

Double side photocopy the pages you want.

Quoted message said:

1 phrase book

Bin it.

Quoted message said:

4 cup a soups (Aspapragus)

Bin it. Buy local.

Quoted message said:

10 ‘Oats So Simple’ sachets + nuts + chocolate to add to them...mmmmm

Bin it. Buy local.

Quoted message said:

1 ME ultralight S bag
silk sleeping bag liner
assorted tools (adjustable, torx, spoke key, ) + multitool + zip ties
and spare brake blocks
spare gear cable × 2
spare brake cable
katadyn water filter
iodine drops
chlorine pills

Take one from the above three. Iodine will do fine.

Quoted message said:

Ortlieb folding bowl

Bin it. Use your bowl.

Quoted message said:

small chopping board

Bin it.

Quoted message said:

leatherman
bike cover
d lock + cable
small funnel

Bin it.

Quoted message said:

small digi camera + charger
led torch
cash
contact lenses
first aid kit, pills etc....
mobile and charger
wet wipes
toothbrush
toothpaste
soap
deoderant
bog roll
razor + 2 blades
pump
3 litres water

maps x 3
documents + copies

Copies can be posted to you. Leave with a friend.

Quoted message said:

Paperbacks × 2
Paramo waterproof jacket and bottoms

Excellent gear. Useless for cycling. Better multi-purpose would be
packlite top and bottoms.

Quoted message said:

Tent ~2.1 kg
steel tent pegs * 15
mobile phone + charger

Is this a second one?

Quoted message said:

compass
candle lamp
3 spare candles

1 will suffice. Buy local if need arise.

Quoted message said:

hat
insect net
tea bags × 10
coffee about 10 cups worth
sugar for coffee
salt (not a lot)
small amount of W/UP liquid
scourer
powdered milk (small bag)
knife fork spoon

Spoon only at a push, else spoon and fork. Use your leatherman knife.

Quoted message said:

small cooking knife

Bin it.

Quoted message said:

small chopping board

Bin it (again).

Quoted message said:

2 sealable plastic tubs

Bin it

Quoted message said:

small amount of ziplock plastic bags

Bin it.

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com' of Virgin Net Usenet Service said:

katadyn water filter
iodine drops
chlorine pills

You really think you'll need these in Europe?

Quoted message said:

knife fork spoon
small cooking knife
small chopping board
2 sealable plastic tubs
plastic plate and bowl

Use the plate instead of the chopping board. Use the sharp knife on the
leatherman, or if it doesn't have one replace with something that does.
Start out without cooking equipment and find out what you really need, then
get it en route. Try to find a plate with a shallow lip that will do bowl
duty as well.

Quoted message said:

small digi camera + charger

Might be better to find one that will take ordinary batteries

Quoted message said:

soap
small amount of W/UP liquid

Replace both with a small bottle of shampoo, and rinse well. Shampoo will
also suffice for washing clothes by hand.

Quoted message said:

maps x 3

Take one, mail the others ahead poste restante

After a week post home anything you haven't used.
--
I recommend limiting one's involvement in other people's lives to a
pleasantly scant minimum. Quentin Crisp
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

Quoted message said:

So the ratio of bike and luggage to me(or the other way round!) is now
about:
me 66.5kg

<snip>

Take more food! :-)

In message <[email hidden]>, Steph Peters
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

JToe ''tod\'@ NO SPAM .com' of Virgin Net Usenet Service said:

katadyn water filter
iodine drops
chlorine pills

You really think you'll need these in Europe?

I usually take few sterilising tablets, just in case, I've even used
them once. But I wouldn't bother with anything else

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knife fork spoon
small cooking knife
small chopping board
2 sealable plastic tubs
plastic plate and bowl

Use the plate instead of the chopping board. Use the sharp knife on the
leatherman, or if it doesn't have one replace with something that does.
Start out without cooking equipment and find out what you really need, then
get it en route. Try to find a plate with a shallow lip that will do bowl
duty as well.

I don't bother at all with bowls/plates when it's just me. I take 2
Aluminium cooking pans with a lid (type of lid that fits over the top
with a deep rim). Most meals tend to be 'eat out of the pan' type
thingsanyway.

I sometimes take one of those thin flexible chopping mats that Lakeland
sell to save me knackering my pan lid chopping on it.

Rest of the kitchen includes a stainless steel mug (heavier but nicer
than plastic), a plastic (actually Melamine) spoon that has a flat end
so is useful for scraping out the bottom of pans, a tea spoon, a small
serrated knife and my Swiss army knife. The serrated knife is not
essential but I do find it very useful. A sponge type pan scourer is
useful for washing up.

Quoted message said:

--
Chris French