Tour spoiler - breaking news.

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Looks like the whole team have withdrawn from the event.
Is that a bit unfair on the other riders?

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Spoiled? Ruined, more like.

Daniele

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

My problem is I now have zero faith in the drugs testing system in
France so I don't know whether to feel disappointed by him or for him.
This one does seem to be a bit more difficult to screw up the test but
its all a matter of lab track record.

Tony

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Mason

(') said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

[censored].

[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored].

I said in another place that I wouldn't be at all surprised, but... We were
talking about this in the bike shop today; my friend Marcus said that
Vino's performance yesterday (not his time trial performance) had raised
questions in his mind.

We so did not need this.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they
;; do it from  religious conviction."          -- Pascal

in message <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann

(') said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Looks like the whole team have withdrawn from the event.
Is that a bit unfair on the other riders?

It's very tough on Kloden and Kashechkin, certainly.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

So, any idea why are blood transfusions done and why they are illegal?
I've just tried to get to the team-astana website but, surprise
surprise, it doesn't seem to work.

And I wonder why all these test results are being leaked, when the B
sample should be tested before any names are named?

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel

Simon Brooke said:

I said in another place that I wouldn't be at all surprised, but... We were
talking about this in the bike shop today; my friend Marcus said that
Vino's performance yesterday (not his time trial performance) had raised
questions in his mind.

We so did not need this.

I find it slightly distressing that Rasmussen's performance this year
reminds me so much of Pantani in 1998. I can only hope that his doping
issues really are a result of incompetence.

Still, on that front at least the Tour organisers should be able to
breathe a collective sigh of relief when Contador takes over the lead.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann

(') said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Looks like the whole team have withdrawn from the event.
Is that a bit unfair on the other riders?

It's very tough on Kloden and Kashechkin, certainly.

Certainly so - if they were clean.

John B

D.M. Procida said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Spoiled? Ruined, more like.

I'm tremendously saddened for the rest of the Astana team and, if
Vinokourov's B-sample confirms doping, I look forward to him being
banned from sport for life and him being fined at least 100% of all his
competition winnings.

In happier news, Petacchi's been cleared. Sadly, he never started the
Tour.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

mb formulated on Tuesday :

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

So, any idea why are blood transfusions done and why they are illegal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

--
Simon

Simon D said:

mb formulated on Tuesday :

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

So, any idea why are blood transfusions done and why they are
illegal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

Thanks. Someone got there quick with the comment at the bottom.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel

Simon Mason said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Actually, I don't really understand all this.

The organisers have adopted a zero-tolerance attitude towards artificial
performance enhancements, and it's an ttitude which seems to have been
adopted sincerely, vocally and almost universally, by teams, riders and
fans.

If Vinokourov wanted blood, it must have been prepared some time back.
He couldn't have asked the team doctor to get him some on Sunday night
from the local late-night store.

And where would this have been administered? In the toilet of the tour
bus? Were the doctors carrying freezer-boxes marked "Blood" through the
hotel lobby?

Daniele

in message <[email hidden]>, mb

(') said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

So, any idea why are blood transfusions done and why they are illegal?
I've just tried to get to the team-astana website but, surprise
surprise, it doesn't seem to work.

To increase the number of red (oxygen carrying) cells in the blood stream,
enabling more oxygen to reach the muscles. 'Normally' this has been done
by taking your own blood, months before the event, storing it under
refrigeration, and then reinfusing it when needed (this is what Basso and
Ullrich - and, incidentally, Contador - are accused of); it increases the
red blood cell count, and as the blood is yours anyway is extremely hard
to detect. Astana don't seem to have prepared in advance, so they probably
didn't come to the tour planning to cheat. What has happened appears to be
that another rider in the team has donated blood to Vino.

Quoted message said:

And I wonder why all these test results are being leaked, when the B
sample should be tested before any names are named?

Pass.

This isn't good news for anyone. But it seems to be an official
announcement, both from ASO and from Team Astana.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; part time troll.

in message <[email hidden]>, Danny

Colyer (') said:

Still, on that front at least the Tour organisers should be able to
breathe a collective sigh of relief when Contador takes over the lead.

The only reason Contador's Operacion Puerto file was not turned over to the
UCI with everyone else's appears to be that Contador voluntarily gave
evidence against other cyclists to the investigating judge. Contador was -
as a matter of record - a client of Dr Fuentes, and rode for his Liberty
Seguros team which is known to have used blood doping systematically.

Rasmussen /may/ not be clean. Contador /is/ not clean.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

in message <[email hidden]>, Danny

Colyer (') said:

Still, on that front at least the Tour organisers should be able to
breathe a collective sigh of relief when Contador takes over the lead.

I posted an earlier response to this which I hope I've cancelled. However,
putting this as carefully as I can, I hope you /intended/ to be ironic;
and if you didn't intend to be ironic, check who Contador was riding for
before he signed for Disco.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

-- mens vacua in medio vacuo --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

I'm glad. Its one step nearer to the level playing field we've been
promised.

I'm glad that at the start of the Tour when we heard that all racers
had signed an agreement not to use any
performance enhancing substance, the agreement detailed specific
penalties, and the agreement was signed
in the knowledge that all samples taken in tests, random or postrace
would be cross matched with the bags
of unidentified blood recovered from the infamous doping doctor.
Anyone who knew his blood was in one of those bags didnt race this
year.

I'm glad that when the test on the A Sample had been certified that
the result was made known immediately
and its broken protocol.
Thats not what happened last year, a result from earlier came out
after the race had ended, the number two
has still not been declared the last years winner, which interfered
with the promotion of this years race.
The fans, the racers, the team managers, the sponsors, the National
Governing Body and even the National
Government in this case, NEED to be told that theres been a
transgression.

I'm glad that the truth became known prior to the completion of the
race.
This guy was my hero and was my tip for the overall winner based on
his performances this season.
I watched my hero crash, then he got up and kept going, then he
started next day his face grimaced with
pain every pedalstroke, that stage ended with blood seeping thru the
bandages. He still continued,. Such grit
and determination, he finally had a bad day when he looked ready to
jack it all in, then at the start of the next
day he said he'd cleared his mind, re established his goals and he
went for it.
I believed him, I wanted him to win that stage.
Of course I did think of Landis and the way he recovered after his bad
day, but these guys are my heros.
Or they were.

Simon Brooke said:

Astana don't seem to have prepared in advance, so they probably
didn't come to the tour planning to cheat. What has happened appears to be
that another rider in the team has donated blood to Vino.

I wonder if they could do a DNA test to work out who
donated the blood.
What would happen if it was shown that another team member
donated the blood?

Martin.

Yep, it's a great shame! I actually really believed that Vinokourov was a genuinely clean athlete and that his success was down to his evident natural athleticism and Kazakh hardness.

At the end of the day though, it's really not very surprising; if you look at the history of the tour, pretty much every tour champion has been caught doping (including Merckx).

What is curious though is how certain individuals are picked out...

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann

(') said:

Simon Mason said:

Vino collapso :-(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm

Looks like the whole team have withdrawn from the event.
Is that a bit unfair on the other riders?

It's very tough on Kloden and Kashechkin, certainly.

Quite. Were I either of them I'd be waiting outside Vino's hotel room and
kicking him in the knees when he came out.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Nicht in die laufende Trommel greifen.