Tour Power Data

acoggan said:

So if I understand correctly:

1) you were able to sustain 322 W for 3 h initially claimed to have occured on a tempo ride, now it was an all out TT effort that left him drained for days;

4) your normalized power during a ~1 h criterium was 352 W, initially claimed to be 450, because NP wasn't recording the zeroes in CP;

5) you weigh/weighed ~180 lbs;

Personally, I look at those numbers, and they all seem to make perfect sense: ...am I missing something?

Andy, I defer to your sense of credulity. Sure, his numbers now make sense. His intial numbers didn't. If I recall, this same poster claims in other posts to have drafted behind vehicles at 70 mph (I would love to see that gear) . And, his whole initial point was the alleged 30% disparity in NP numbers from AP numbers because his CP was dropping zeros. Most folks that invest $1000 or more in a power meter and software, and train the miles to get to these type of power levels and are racing cat 3 and 2, have some clue about the meaning of the various numbers, and have a pretty good idea of their power performance in races. Again, Saris is now posting real numbers by elite athletes in real races. I am skeptical of any claim by an unknown that he regularly put up better numbers in local races than guys riding elite crits or the tour. But again, I am a 42 y/o weekend warrior struggling to get my FTP up a few watts at a time so it might be that I am just an angry grouch on these issues.

kopride said:

If I recall, this same poster claims in other posts to have drafted behind vehicles at 70 mph (I would love to see that gear) .

That is not incredulous IMO. There was a video posted sometime back on a couple of pro-riders who were drafting behind the team car and they reached speeds of 130 km/hr (using the speedometer of the vehicle as reference).

TheDarkLord said:

That is not incredulous IMO. There was a video posted sometime back on a couple of pro-riders who were drafting behind the team car and they reached speeds of 130 km/hr (using the speedometer of the vehicle as reference).

Wow. Just wow.

70mph behind an suv down a 10% grade takes about 400watts. Real hard, I know.

Well, it wasn't easy I suppose. Spinning my 53x12 at 200rpms was a challenge. But it was absolutely doable.

And yes Kopride, you do come across as an angry grouch.

TheDarkLord said:

Well, can you keep doing this for 3 weeks continuously with 2 rest days?

Absolutely not. That is why I am a simple cat 2, not a pro tour rider!!!

Who ever said I was anywhere near that pro level? NOT I!

haha

TheDarkLord said:

...There was a video posted sometime back on a couple of pro-riders who were drafting behind the team car and they reached speeds of 130 km/hr (using the speedometer of the vehicle as reference).

That's roughly 200 rpm in a 55:11 gear. Sure they weren't descending???

kopride said:

Andy, I defer to your sense of credulity. Sure, his numbers now make sense. His intial numbers didn't. If I recall, this same poster claims in other posts to have drafted behind vehicles at 70 mph (I would love to see that gear) . And, his whole initial point was the alleged 30% disparity in NP numbers from AP numbers because his CP was dropping zeros. Most folks that invest $1000 or more in a power meter and software, and train the miles to get to these type of power levels and are racing cat 3 and 2, have some clue about the meaning of the various numbers, and have a pretty good idea of their power performance in races. Again, Saris is now posting real numbers by elite athletes in real races. I am skeptical of any claim by an unknown that he regularly put up better numbers in local races than guys riding elite crits or the tour. But again, I am a 42 y/o weekend warrior struggling to get my FTP up a few watts at a time so it might be that I am just an angry grouch on these issues.

Since when did I put up better numbers than pros? Let's talk w/kg, because that means a lot more than absolute wattage since I am larger than most pros.

Buddy, you better keep your mouth shut, stop putting words in my mouth.

Now you are pissing me off. I love these cyclingforums arguements!! WOOOOOOOO!

Now listen guys, it is impossible for any forum member here to be any bit of a good rider.

Kopride, I invite you to come to CT and ride with me. I'm nothing special. I'll even let you look at powertap files. I'll even let you try to hold my wheel when I open it up for real.

I'm serious, come to CT. It will be good training.

This topic is not about me though. I'm not here to boast. I simply just said that it shouldn't be surprising that pro riders can do 400w for 36 minutes. Very arguementive, eh?

tonyzackery said:

Wholeheartedly agree with this statement...In the 2008 FTP thread I put out the challenge (really just a solicitation) for some of those individuals high on the list to post some results (especially time trial times) as I'm curious as to where 5w/kg stacks up against their competition. You will notice that there have been very few results posted from those of the upper echelon...

True. But velom hasn't posted any race results from his 352 watt crit either. I didn't start this thread to be a slam towards other peoples numbers. And, the list really is on an honor system. If I am too skeptical, and velom is the real deal, then I apologize. I still won't try to attempt to draft behind a vehicle at 70 mph. My only point was that this team is being completely transparent and we can now see the actual power numbers these guys are putting out in races. If your reaction, is "I could do that," then I would hope that you have done something just as special in some other event. In any event, it should make us look at some of the numbers folks maintain with a bit more skepticism. As I said, my numbers are pretty pedestrian (283), and I don't harbor any illusions that I could ride with these boys.

kopride said:

True. But velom hasn't posted any race results from his 352 watt crit either. I didn't start this thread to be a slam towards other peoples numbers. And, the list really is on an honor system. If I am too skeptical, and velom is the real deal, then I apologize. I still won't try to attempt to draft behind a vehicle at 70 mph. My only point was that this team is being completely transparent and we can now see the actual power numbers these guys are putting out in races. If your reaction, is "I could do that," then I would hope that you have done something just as special in some other event. In any event, it should make us look at some of the numbers folks maintain with a bit more skepticism. As I said, my numbers are pretty pedestrian (283), and I don't harbor any illusions that I could ride with these boys.

I never said I could do what they do.

daveryanwyoming said:

That's roughly 200 rpm in a 55:11 gear. Sure they weren't descending???

I don't recall unfortunately. Could be.

velomanct said:

Now listen guys, it is impossible for any forum member here to be any bit of a good rider.

Kopride, I invite you to come to CT and ride with me. I'm nothing special. I'll even let you look at powertap files. I'll even let you try to hold my wheel when I open it up for real.

I'm serious, come to CT. It will be good training.

Velom,

I am a 42 year old weekend warrior with a hard earned FTP of 283. My 22 year old self would have beaten me and I would hope you would as well. There are lots of young bucks in Philly that can drop me as well, I don't need to travel to CT to let me know that I am not the fastest guy in town. Look at your initial claims. You admit that they were incorrect, specifically, you weren't racing at 450 NP during one hour crits because CP dropped some zeroes, and were not routinely riding tempo at 322. If you rode 70 mph downhill, I would love to see the gear that you did it in. IMHO, based upon certain claims you have made in this forum, you are prone to exxageration. What makes your apparent exxageration more pathetic is that 340 with solid Cat 3 experience, if true, is nothing to denegrate. You are fast. Your power numbers in your mid finish crit were better than the power numbers in the national crit Saris posted, which included a pro. You claimed about 4.25 w/kg, and the pro generated 4.3. So, in a sense, you did claim numbers that were pretty comprable to a Toyota pro and some cat 1 riders. That race was pretty flat, so I don't think weight was as big a factor. If you have the skills to ride 70 mph behind a speeding truck, I would hope that you are pretty fearless in a crit, which is a bigger factor than weight in a course with tight turns. If I believe you, it doesn't make you any faster; if I don't believe you, it doesn't make you any slower. You have nothing to prove to me. But if I am in the area, I will bring my truck up and see if you can hit 70 mph down hill. That might be worth the trip to CT. Better yet, film it and youtube it so we can all see.

velomanct said:

Absolutely not. That is why I am a simple cat 2, not a pro tour rider!!!

Who ever said I was anywhere near that pro level? NOT I!

haha

Now you are a simple Cat 2. I thought you were a simple Cat 3. You keep getting faster by the minute. A lot of races have to be ridden to qualify for Cat 2. We will wait to see if you post some of them

TheDarkLord said:

I don't recall unfortunately. Could be.

Yes, you know all those long mountain roads in CT suitable for a 70 mile descent. He must have done it in Bridgeport

kopride said:

Velom,

I am a 42 year old weekend warrior with a hard earned FTP of 283. My 22 year old self would have beaten me and I would hope you would as well. There are lots of young bucks in Philly that can drop me as well, I don't need to travel to CT to let me know that I am not the fastest guy in town. Look at your initial claims. You admit that they were incorrect, specifically, you weren't racing at 450 NP during one hour crits because CP dropped some zeroes, and were not routinely riding tempo at 322. If you rode 70 mph downhill, I would love to see the gear that you did it in. IMHO, based upon certain claims you have made in this forum, you are prone to exxageration. What makes your apparent exxageration more pathetic is that 340 with solid Cat 3 experience, if true, is nothing to denegrate. You are fast. Your power numbers in your mid finish crit were better than the power numbers in the national crit Saris posted, which included a pro. You claimed about 4.25 w/kg, and the pro generated 4.3. So, in a sense, you did claim numbers that were pretty comprable to a Toyota pro and some cat 1 riders. That race was pretty flat, so I don't think weight was as big a factor. If you have the skills to ride 70 mph behind a speeding truck, I would hope that you are pretty fearless in a crit, which is a bigger factor than weight in a course with tight turns. If I believe you, it doesn't make you any faster; if I don't believe you, it doesn't make you any slower. You have nothing to prove to me. But if I am in the area, I will bring my truck up and see if you can hit 70 mph down hill. That might be worth the trip to CT. Better yet, film it and youtube it so we can all see.

A forum search reveals this thread from him in 2005: http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?t=292701. The media file is no longer available though.

kopride said:

Now you are a simple Cat 2. I thought you were a simple Cat 3. You keep getting faster by the minute. A lot of races have to be ridden to qualify for Cat 2. We will wait to see if you post some of them

I noticed that too 😕

Well, perhaps I mentioned cat 3 because that is my current fitness level for road racing. Back a few years ago, I did upgrade to 2 after winning jiminy peak 3s. I am still technically a 2, but likely don't belong there anymore.

Why am I so up for discussion here? It's not about me. I'm not trying to prove I am fast. I know I'm decent, but I'm not here to prove to you guys I am FAST. I just said that it shouldn't be suprising to see pros do 400w for 36min.

I was 17 when I did the 70mph thing. Not the smartest thing to do, but I do have confidence in my bike handling abilities. Have you ever drafted a large vehicle? If you have, you would know that there is almost no wind resistence. Add in the fact that I was on a 10% downgrade a mile long, and 70mph is really nothing more than a dangerous spin up. 53x12 at 200rpms is 70mph.
6.95(wheel dia) x 53 / 12 = 30.7
30.7 x 60 x 200 / 5280 = 69.77mph my speedometer which is CORRECT in MPH read 70.1 or something.

Location: Rt 322 in Wolcott/Marion/Southington CT. Sure ct is not known for mtn, but we still have some decent hills. This is the same "mtn" range that Mt Southington is on. Top speed on this hill unassisted is only 55mph or so (sprinting), 47 aero tuck. I actually have faster hills right in my town.

ANYWAY. lol

Okay, here's the kicker. I just got back from my sprint ride tonight. 80 minutes, average REAL watts of 138, with about 6 or 7 sprints, everything else zone 1.

NP = 324 for 80 minutes. What a load of sheet. Let me see if I can copy and paste here.

Don't disect my numbers too much, I had ZERO energy on my ride tonight, didn't make for good sprints.

Entire ride (138w):
Duration: 1:18:17
Work: 647 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 324
Distance: 19.347 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 138 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 29 198 67 rpm
Speed: 0 40.7 14.8 mph
Torque: 0 659 75 lb-in

Peak 5s (1614w):
Duration: 0:05
Work: 8 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
Distance: 151 ft
Min Max Avg
Power: 1570 1666 1614 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 99 109 104 rpm
Speed: 20.3 21.6 21.1 mph
Torque: 480 542 507 lb-in

Peak 10s (1567w):
Duration: 0:10
Work: 16 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
Distance: 312 ft
Min Max Avg
Power: 1522 1644 1567 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 91 114 109 rpm
Speed: 16.4 21.7 20.4 mph
Torque: 462 638 512 lb-in

Peak 20s (1411w):
Duration: 0:20
Work: 28 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: n/a
Distance: 587 ft
Min Max Avg
Power: 1002 1666 1411 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 81 109 96 rpm
Speed: 17.6 21.6 19.8 mph
Torque: 355 542 470 lb-in

Peak 30s (1009w):
Duration: 0:30
Work: 31 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 1009
Distance: 791 ft
Min Max Avg
Power: 9 1666 1009 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 46 109 87 rpm
Speed: 8.2 21.6 17.8 mph
Torque: 5 542 342 lb-in

Peak 1min (536w):
Duration: 1:00
Work: 32 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 868
Distance: 0.234 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 536 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 30 138 75 rpm
Speed: 2.6 21.6 14 mph
Torque: 0 542 221 lb-in

Peak 2min (374w):
Duration: 2:01
Work: 45 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 539
Distance: 0.302 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 374 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 30 109 56 rpm
Speed: 2.6 21.6 9 mph
Torque: 0 542 224 lb-in

Peak 5min (255w):
Duration: 5:01
Work: 77 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 310
Distance: 1.22 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1637 255 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 45 131 76 rpm
Speed: 0 27.3 14.4 mph
Torque: 0 562 108 lb-in

Peak 10min (190w):
Duration: 10:01
Work: 114 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 325
Distance: 2.339 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 190 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 35 188 73 rpm
Speed: 8 29.5 14 mph
Torque: 0 542 90 lb-in

Peak 20min (168w):
Duration: 20:01
Work: 202 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 296
Distance: 4.447 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1637 168 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 30 141 67 rpm
Speed: 0 33.9 13.3 mph
Torque: 0 562 100 lb-in

Peak 30min (169w):
Duration: 30:01
Work: 305 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 355
Distance: 6.667 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 169 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 30 188 67 rpm
Speed: 0 33.9 13.3 mph
Torque: 0 562 97 lb-in

Peak 60min (142w):
Duration: 1:00:01
Work: 511 kJ
TSS: n/a
Norm Power: 332
Distance: 15.091 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1666 142 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm
Cadence: 29 198 68 rpm
Speed: 0 33.9 15.1 mph
Torque: 0 659 73 lb-in

So, this is why I don't look at NP. I did a zone 1 ride with some sprints and got a NP of 324!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actual watts were 138.

Oh wait, did Andy say something about the old cyclingpeaks not calculating NP well? I have the old CP.

velomanct said:

So, this is why I don't look at NP. I did a zone 1 ride with some sprints and got a NP of 324!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actual watts were 138.

Oh wait, did Andy say something about the old cyclingpeaks not calculating NP well? I have the old CP.

HAHAHAHAHAHA:p

What is there to dissect? So if an AP of 138 yields a 324 NP on your version of CP, then the NP of 450 you allegedly did in that crit was really an AP of 191 (+/- 5 %)? If you finished in the middle of a Cat 3 crit with an AP of 191, you must be a pretty skillful rider. And, if you worked your way up to Cat 2, then you rode with a local club or team and can link to some results. (Most clubs post results on line and almost all most races do). You must of also won a fair share of races at Cat 5 and 4 you can link to.

I will let you off the hook. As much fun as this is, I can't let you keep humiliating yourself with this silly stuff. If it makes you feel better, I believe everything you have ever or will ever post. Let me know when you are going to do another downhill run drafting behind vehicles at 70 mph and I will come visit CT.

I will leave the rest of the thread to discussions of the incredible but real numbers the pros are posting, and riding clean🙂

kopride said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA:p

What is there to dissect? So if an AP of 138 yields a 324 NP on your version of CP, then the NP of 450 you allegedly did in that crit was really an AP of 191 (+/- 5 %)? If you finished in the middle of a Cat 3 crit with an AP of 191, you must be a pretty skillful rider. And, if you worked your way up to Cat 2, then you rode with a local club or team and can link to some results. (Most clubs post results on line and almost all most races do). You must of also won a fair share of races at Cat 5 and 4 you can link to.

I will let you off the hook. As much fun as this is, I can't let you keep humiliating yourself with this silly stuff. If it makes you feel better, I believe everything you have ever or will ever post. Let me know when you are going to do another downhill run drafting behind vehicles at 70 mph and I will come visit CT.

I will leave the rest of the thread to discussions of the incredible but real numbers the pros are posting, and riding clean🙂

Humiliating myself? Are you serious? My point is that with my old version of CP, NP is a crock.

What are you unsure of? My ability to win a cat 3 race? You keep attacking my posts as if there was something unbelievable about them?

There's already enough information here to figure out who I am. I rather not spell my name out for privacy sake.

I agree with your assertation that tonight's ride with a NP of 324 is "fake" or meaningless. Dude, HELLO!!!! I agree!!! Apparantly the old CP software doesn't do a good job of calculating NP as it should be.

What is so unbelievable about what I say?