Torpedo7's famous $99 5+10W halogen light set

What type of battery is it?

I had a Ni-Cad BLT battery (different light set) - and it pretty much did
the same thing.

I made my own battey pack using an old camera case and 2 banks of 6 AA Ni-MH
batterys. works much better.

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
know there are a number of other people who bought one.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
overcharge it?

I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
the start as I thought it was.

And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
dimmer.

Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
in light intensity and duration?

Travis

Travis said:

This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
know there are a number of other people who bought one.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
overcharge it?

I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
the start as I thought it was.

And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
dimmer.

Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
in light intensity and duration?

Travis

How long have you had it?

How many charges has it had?

Has it been left flat for any period of time?

Is the charger an "intelligent" charger?

Does it have a "fast" charger?

What is the measured voltage compared to it's stated voltage?

How does the amp/hour rating compare to the stated amp/hour rating?

Friday

Friday said:

How long have you had it?

About 6 months.

Quoted message said:

How many charges has it had?

Dunno exactly... about 3 a week for 6 months.

Quoted message said:

Has it been left flat for any period of time?

No.

Quoted message said:

Is the charger an "intelligent" charger?

No.

Quoted message said:

Does it have a "fast" charger?

No.

Quoted message said:

What is the measured voltage compared to it's stated voltage?

Never measured it. I'm just going by the brightness of the light.
Dad's battery, which has never been used, makes them glow a lot more
brightly than my one, and it corresponds with what I thought my own
battery was like when it was new.

Quoted message said:

How does the amp/hour rating compare to the stated amp/hour rating?

No idea. When new it was good for lighting 15W worth of bulbs nice and
brightly for about 3 hours. Now they light more dimly and seem to have
less than 2 hours worth of light in them.

Travis

Travis said:

Friday said:

How long have you had it?

About 6 months.

Quoted message said:

How many charges has it had?

Dunno exactly... about 3 a week for 6 months.

Quoted message said:

Has it been left flat for any period of time?

No.

Quoted message said:

Is the charger an "intelligent" charger?

No.

Quoted message said:

Does it have a "fast" charger?

No.

Quoted message said:

What is the measured voltage compared to it's stated voltage?

Never measured it. I'm just going by the brightness of the light.
Dad's battery, which has never been used, makes them glow a lot more
brightly than my one, and it corresponds with what I thought my own
battery was like when it was new.

See if you can deduce what voltage it should be, you might be able to
work it out by knowing the number and type of cells inside, probably one
of the cells has died. If you can borrow a voltmeter of some sort it'll
help identify the problem.

If the voltage is right but drops within half an hour or so then all the
cells are probably on the way out.

I always tell people you should spend more on the charger than you do on
the batterys, an intelligent charger won't kill them. Intelligent
chargers sense the Peak voltage which indicates full charge and have a
temperature sensor to detect a sudden rise in temperature (which
indicates it's fully charged.)

Trying to charge a battery that won't hold it's charge by charging
longer only further stuffs the battery.

Friday

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How does the amp/hour rating compare to the stated amp/hour rating?

No idea. When new it was good for lighting 15W worth of bulbs nice and
brightly for about 3 hours. Now they light more dimly and seem to have
less than 2 hours worth of light in them.

Travis

On 2006-10-16, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
know there are a number of other people who bought one.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
overcharge it?

I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
the start as I thought it was.

And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
dimmer.

Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
in light intensity and duration?

What do you expect from a cheap battery set?

The battery from my $300 15+5W light is still going just fine (OK, so
the removalists did blow the 5W bulb, and I'm going to have to go into
town to find a new one; and one bulb did explode -- but they are being
overvolted, which I agree is a useful compromise for efficiency vs
lifetime).

Batteries are expensive. Reputable NiMHs alone cost $80 for the
energy content you desire to power your halogens for a decent length
of time. Without the packaging, reliable sockets, and charging
circuit, nor bulbs and reliable mounts.

You in particular seem to be making many mistakes with regards to
buying cheap dodgy items off ebay, and then complaining of it being
substandard. Didn't you do that with a bike with dodgy wheels that
cost more to replace than a new bike was worth, despite many people
here expliticly recommending you don't do so?

Remember: you get what you pay for.

Here endeth the lesson 🙂

--
TimC
An Emacs reference mug is what I want. It would hold ten gallons of coffee.
-- Steve VanDevender

TimC said:

On 2006-10-16, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
know there are a number of other people who bought one.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
overcharge it?

I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
the start as I thought it was.

And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
dimmer.

Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
in light intensity and duration?

What do you expect from a cheap battery set?

The battery from my $300 15+5W light is still going just fine (OK, so
the removalists did blow the 5W bulb, and I'm going to have to go into
town to find a new one; and one bulb did explode -- but they are being
overvolted, which I agree is a useful compromise for efficiency vs
lifetime).

Batteries are expensive. Reputable NiMHs alone cost $80 for the
energy content you desire to power your halogens for a decent length
of time. Without the packaging, reliable sockets, and charging
circuit, nor bulbs and reliable mounts.

You in particular seem to be making many mistakes with regards to
buying cheap dodgy items off ebay, and then complaining of it being
substandard. Didn't you do that with a bike with dodgy wheels that
cost more to replace than a new bike was worth, despite many people
here expliticly recommending you don't do so?

Remember: you get what you pay for.

Here endeth the lesson 🙂

Have compassion for your fellow cyclist. All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.
And we'll all live happily ever after.

Friday

Friday said:

TimC said:

On 2006-10-16, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
know there are a number of other people who bought one.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
overcharge it?

I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
the start as I thought it was.

And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
dimmer.

Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
in light intensity and duration?

What do you expect from a cheap battery set?

The battery from my $300 15+5W light is still going just fine (OK, so
the removalists did blow the 5W bulb, and I'm going to have to go into
town to find a new one; and one bulb did explode -- but they are being
overvolted, which I agree is a useful compromise for efficiency vs
lifetime).

Batteries are expensive. Reputable NiMHs alone cost $80 for the
energy content you desire to power your halogens for a decent length
of time. Without the packaging, reliable sockets, and charging
circuit, nor bulbs and reliable mounts.

You in particular seem to be making many mistakes with regards to
buying cheap dodgy items off ebay, and then complaining of it being
substandard. Didn't you do that with a bike with dodgy wheels that
cost more to replace than a new bike was worth, despite many people
here expliticly recommending you don't do so?

Remember: you get what you pay for.

Here endeth the lesson 🙂

Have compassion for your fellow cyclist. All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.
And we'll all live happily ever after.

Friday

Hear! Hear! I am sure many of us have made similar mistakes.

More on topic for Travis:

If the batteries were cheap Nicads, there is a good chance they are simply
failing. One answer is to replace them with a suitable NiMH battery pack.
If you can't find a reasonably priced battery pack, it is usually not too
difficult to solder together some of the nice (and cheap!) NiMH cells from
Jaycar electronics.

You need to know what voltage, amperage, etc is required (remember that 4.8
W = 12V x 400 mA). For example, 10 x 2000 mA-hr 1.2V NiMH cells should
give 5 hours of light with 4.8 W output. This would be using AA sized
cells. Expect maybe 150 recharges before they need replacing.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Vince

Vincent Patrick said:

Friday said:

TimC said:

On 2006-10-16, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

>This light set has been discussed a number of times in this forum and I
>know there are a number of other people who bought one.
>
>Am I the only one who has noticed that the battery is rapidly losing
>its ability to hold a charge, even though I'm careful never to
>overcharge it?
>
>I wasn't sure if I was just imagining that the light was getting less
>bright because it happened so gradually. Maybe it wasn't as bright at
>the start as I thought it was.
>
>And then I borrowed back a battery I'd bought for my father, which he
>hasn't used yet. Yes, its definitely a higher voltage. The light with
>dad's battery is almost white, with mine its definitely yellow and much
>dimmer.
>
>Did I get a one-off lemon or are others experiencing a similar drop-off
>in light intensity and duration?

What do you expect from a cheap battery set?

The battery from my $300 15+5W light is still going just fine (OK, so
the removalists did blow the 5W bulb, and I'm going to have to go into
town to find a new one; and one bulb did explode -- but they are being
overvolted, which I agree is a useful compromise for efficiency vs
lifetime).

Batteries are expensive. Reputable NiMHs alone cost $80 for the
energy content you desire to power your halogens for a decent length
of time. Without the packaging, reliable sockets, and charging
circuit, nor bulbs and reliable mounts.

You in particular seem to be making many mistakes with regards to
buying cheap dodgy items off ebay, and then complaining of it being
substandard. Didn't you do that with a bike with dodgy wheels that
cost more to replace than a new bike was worth, despite many people
here expliticly recommending you don't do so?

Remember: you get what you pay for.

Here endeth the lesson 🙂

Have compassion for your fellow cyclist. All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.
And we'll all live happily ever after.

Friday

Hear! Hear! I am sure many of us have made similar mistakes.

More on topic for Travis:

If the batteries were cheap Nicads, there is a good chance they are simply
failing. One answer is to replace them with a suitable NiMH battery pack.
If you can't find a reasonably priced battery pack, it is usually not too
difficult to solder together some of the nice (and cheap!) NiMH cells from
Jaycar electronics.

You need to know what voltage, amperage, etc is required (remember that 4.8
W = 12V x 400 mA). For example, 10 x 2000 mA-hr 1.2V NiMH cells should
give 5 hours of light with 4.8 W output. This would be using AA sized
cells. Expect maybe 150 recharges before they need replacing.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Vince

I've written a bit of an article on making up a battery pack here:

http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Battery/battery.htm

Friday

Vincent Patrick said:

More on topic for Travis:

If the batteries were cheap Nicads, there is a good chance they are
simply failing. One answer is to replace them with a suitable NiMH
battery pack. If you can't find a reasonably priced battery pack, it
is usually not too difficult to solder together some of the nice (and
cheap!) NiMH cells from Jaycar electronics.

Hi Travis, Ni-cad's really do need a specific charger. They also need to be
totally discharged every six months or so. A good charger has the
regenerative discharge cycle built in.

You can get good batteries or you can get cheap batteries. You can't have
both. e.g. If you buy a cordless drill for $40 there is a 50% chance the
batteries will fail in 12 months, 80% they will be dead within two years.You
can buy a 12V battery drill from Bunnings for $40. I paid $90 for
replacement batteries for my 12V cordless drill from a wholesaler. The
original batteries were 12 years old. And yes, there is a huge difference in
power and performance.

Theo

Vincent Patrick said:

Quoted message said:

All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.

Amen! Even well-known brand-name lights can come with crappy dumb
chargers that give poor battery life.

Quoted message said:

If the batteries were cheap Nicads, there is a good chance they are simply
failing. One answer is to replace them with a suitable NiMH battery pack.

Except NiMH are even less tolerant of over-charging, so like to have a
good smart-charger. But they last a lot longer on one charge, so need
less cycles.

Another possibility is the old lead-acid gel-cells, so long as you don't
have too many hill-climbs :-) (usually 6V or 12V only)

Mike said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Quoted message said:

All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.

Amen! Even well-known brand-name lights can come with crappy dumb
chargers that give poor battery life.

Quoted message said:

If the batteries were cheap Nicads, there is a good chance they are
simply
failing. One answer is to replace them with a suitable NiMH battery
pack.

Except NiMH are even less tolerant of over-charging, so like to have a
good smart-charger. But they last a lot longer on one charge, so need
less cycles.

Another possibility is the old lead-acid gel-cells, so long as you don't
have too many hill-climbs :-) (usually 6V or 12V only)

I've gone to those Lithium-ion batterys they use in model planes.
They're expensive but the chargers for them are cheap, (voltage type
rather than current type.) Lithium batterys are about half the weight of
nickel batterys and about a quarter the weight of lead-acid gel cells.

friday

On 2006-10-16, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Hi Travis, Ni-cad's really do need a specific charger. They also need to be
totally discharged every six months or so. A good charger has the
regenerative discharge cycle built in.

You can get good batteries or you can get cheap batteries. You can't have
both. e.g. If you buy a cordless drill for $40 there is a 50% chance the
batteries will fail in 12 months, 80% they will be dead within two years.You
can buy a 12V battery drill from Bunnings for $40. I paid $90 for
replacement batteries for my 12V cordless drill from a wholesaler. The
original batteries were 12 years old. And yes, there is a huge difference in
power and performance.

Someone earlier suggested the cheap NiMHs from Jaycar. I've read (not
performed the experiment myself) that they last half the recharge
cycles, and hold a smaller charge than what their labelling claims
(Ones I have claim to be 1200mAH, whereas ones you get from other
shops claim to be 2200mAH, so if 1200mAH is exaggerated, then you're
looking at slightly cheaper batteries holding 1/4 of the charge.
False economics, eh?)

--
TimC
According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics
are totally worthless.

On 2006-10-17, Mike (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Vincent Patrick said:

Quoted message said:

All that's needed is to
establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.

Amen! Even well-known brand-name lights can come with crappy dumb
chargers that give poor battery life.

Which is a crazy situation. You can make a crappy charger into a
reasonable charger for less than $5 of circuitry. Spend $300 on a
lighting system and end up with a crappy charger, WTF!?

But it's their vested interest, because it forces people who don't
know better to repeatedly go out and buy new batteries. And most
people don't know better -- they just buy the cheapest money can buy.

Those of us who know about the existance of smart vs dumb chargers
won't make the mistake a second time of buying a dumb charger, but we
probably are in the minority.

--
TimC
Information wants to be beer, or something like that. --unknown

On 2006-10-17, Friday (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Mike said:

Another possibility is the old lead-acid gel-cells, so long as you don't
have too many hill-climbs :-) (usually 6V or 12V only)

I've gone to those Lithium-ion batterys they use in model planes.
They're expensive but the chargers for them are cheap, (voltage type
rather than current type.)

If that reason is the justification for extra cost, that too is
rediculous. It only takes a single transistor to transform a voltage
detector to a current detector.

Quoted message said:

Lithium batterys are about half the weight of
nickel batterys and about a quarter the weight of lead-acid gel cells.

And a well maintained Li-Ion battery lasts a year or two, and a well
maintained NiMH lasts several years.

--
TimC
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
-- Ferenc Mantfeld

TimC said:

On 2006-10-17, Mike (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Vincent Patrick said:

> All that's needed is to
> establish the cause, is it a cell or all of the cells? Take the
> appropriate action to repair/replace, and then recommend a decent
> charger that will ensure a long life for the rejuvenated battery.

Amen! Even well-known brand-name lights can come with crappy dumb
chargers that give poor battery life.

Which is a crazy situation. You can make a crappy charger into a
reasonable charger for less than $5 of circuitry. Spend $300 on a
lighting system and end up with a crappy charger, WTF!?

But it's their vested interest, because it forces people who don't
know better to repeatedly go out and buy new batteries. And most
people don't know better -- they just buy the cheapest money can buy.

Those of us who know about the existance of smart vs dumb chargers
won't make the mistake a second time of buying a dumb charger, but we
probably are in the minority.

--
TimC
Information wants to be beer, or something like that. --unknown

OK, quick tip please for acquiring a smart charger, for the sake of
completeness of the thread
;-) I too have trashed batteries!

Donga

Donga said:

OK, quick tip please for acquiring a smart charger, for the sake of
completeness of the thread
;-) I too have trashed batteries!

Donga

For me at least there is a happy ending. I called Torpedo7 and they
confirmed it has a 12 month warranty. I'm to post the faulty item back
to them and they'll send me a brand new one, I'll even get a store
credit for my postage costs if I enclose the receipt for the postage.

Travis

Mike said:

Except NiMH are even less tolerant of over-charging, so like to have a
good smart-charger. But they last a lot longer on one charge, so need
less cycles.

NiMH cells are only damaged by over-charging if the charging current stays
too high once they're charged. If you limit the current to < capacity/10 mA
(e.g. 200mA for 2500mAh cells) they get slightly warm, since the input
power is dissipated as heat, but they should tolerate it forever, and no
intelligence is needed.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

On 2006-10-17, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Donga said:

OK, quick tip please for acquiring a smart charger, for the sake of
completeness of the thread
;-) I too have trashed batteries!

Depends what kind of batteries 🙂

The best bet is to shop around when you are buying the system, and
insist on only buying the ones which explicitly state they have a
smart charger (or equivalent wording). It's very hard to go and get a
charger (you'd probably have to resort to making one yourself, and
then you're going to miss out on the features like temperature sensors
internal to the battery) for some proprietry battery pack, not made by
the manufacturer themselves.

Quoted message said:

For me at least there is a happy ending. I called Torpedo7 and they
confirmed it has a 12 month warranty. I'm to post the faulty item back
to them and they'll send me a brand new one, I'll even get a store
credit for my postage costs if I enclose the receipt for the postage.

Chicken and egg problem: how do you get a receipt before you close the
package? 🙂

--
TimC
The stereotypical Islay is like chewing on a well-preserved rowing
boat, spiced up with seaweed, whereas the 20yo Laddie is more like
relishing a gourmet meal in said rowing boat. -- Ingvar in ASR

TimC said:

Traviswrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For me at least there is a happy ending. I called Torpedo7 and they
confirmed it has a 12 month warranty. I'm to post the faulty item
back to them and they'll send me a brand new one, I'll even get a
store credit for my postage costs if I enclose the receipt for the
postage.

Quoted message said:

Chicken and egg problem: how do you get a receipt before you close the
package? 🙂

No problem. Go to post office and pay for the postage before you close the
package.

Theo