Toronto Marathon Report

SwStudio said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

Quoted message said:

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

David,

Sorry to hear about that. There's always next time.
You don't sound too disappointed yourself.

Btw, did the race begin on time? I was checking www.runtoronto.com
and it seemed like they started at noon instead of 9 a.m.

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Yup, you could get in some focused training.

jobs

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

SwStudio said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

Quoted message said:

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

David,

Sorry to hear about that. There's always next time.
You don't sound too disappointed yourself.

Thanks, and no, it's not a big deal to me. I didn't train
for it.

Quoted message said:

Btw, did the race begin on time? I was checking www.runtoronto.com
and it seemed like they started at noon instead of 9 a.m.

No, it started on time! The results are already up. I
think I came in 5th out of the people that only crossed
the halfway mat.... lol ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Yup, you could get in some focused training.

Exactly!

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton ON)
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
www.allfalldown.org

Leafing through rec.running, I read SwStudio's message of 17 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

David, so sorry to hear that. I was looking at the weather in Toronto while
you were runing. Not good. At least you didn't waste a lot of time training
for this (you did say you were ill-prepared).

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Boston?

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

I read where the weather was "cool, damp, and windy conditions". On the
marathon's homepage, I saw within hour 5 while I presume people were still
running....(live weather link) it was Partly cloudy. Light rain showers.
7°C, Partly cloudy. Light rain showers, WIND 35 km/h.

Is this your first marathon DNF? And at what point (distance-wise) do you
think you started to consider to DNF?

I know you're an elite runner and I am curious as to what drives someone like
you to DNF. You said it was due to it being "impossible to run fast" in the
conditions....however I would assume those conditions apply to everyone in the
context of a race.

I think in '03 Andy on this ng DNF Chicago in pursuit of qualifying for Olympic
Trials...at a similar point in the marathon due to feeling "over-trained".

Did you not have similar type of weather in your training period? I am not
elite runner...just a guy who runs when he gets a chance...but I seek out
extreme weather conditions to run in....just in case on race day....the weather
is one of the challenges. Weather's a known variable...no?

Was a time goal out of reach due to weather? I head into races with multiple
goals of time and placement w/my age group. Hence if it's a snow storm, and I
have raced in blizzards...it's all relative and I can find personal fulfillment
in finishing in a certain "slot" regardless of time. When you get to be elite
at your level...is there no satisfaction in "placement position" relative to
the field of runners that day?

When you're as good as a runner as you are...the caliber you are....if you find
yourself not delivering a suitable "showing" for your standard....do you just
"chuck it" when you feel "your less than who you know you are"?...on that day?

sorry to hear about this and good luck in the spring...

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I read where the weather was "cool, damp, and windy conditions". On the
marathon's homepage, I saw within hour 5 while I presume people were still
running....(live weather link) it was Partly cloudy. Light rain showers.
7°C, Partly cloudy. Light rain showers, WIND 35 km/h.

The wind was quite sustained - very brutal to run into. 🙁
As far as the 'laght rain showers' go, it may have not been
torrential but it was horizontal and biting. It was only a few
degrees above freezing.

Quoted message said:

Is this your first marathon DNF? And at what point (distance-wise) do you
think you started to consider to DNF?

Nope, I DNF'd on the same course two years ago. I
had suffered a broken shoulder ten days earlier and found
the pain a little too much eventually.

Quoted message said:

I know you're an elite runner and I am curious as to what drives someone
like
you to DNF. You said it was due to it being "impossible to run fast" in
the
conditions....however I would assume those conditions apply to everyone in
the
context of a race.

I'm not an elite runner at all! I never DNF unless I have
a real medical problem, but I didn't train for this and a
marathon isn't fun to run to begin with on bad training...
add the terrible weather and I have two good reasons
to opt out early.

Quoted message said:

I think in '03 Andy on this ng DNF Chicago in pursuit of qualifying for
Olympic
Trials...at a similar point in the marathon due to feeling "over-trained".

I'm not in Andy's calibre, but I remember that and
am sure he would have finished for the hell of it if it
was a shorter distance, too. No point finishing a bad
marathon unless you're going to win something.

Quoted message said:

Did you not have similar type of weather in your training period? I am
not
elite runner...just a guy who runs when he gets a chance...but I seek out
extreme weather conditions to run in....just in case on race day....the
weather
is one of the challenges. Weather's a known variable...no?

I don't really train outside, but don't feel that training in
wind and rain makes it any easier to race in. I *do*
believe in temperature-specific training, but not really
wind and stuff.

Quoted message said:

Was a time goal out of reach due to weather? I head into races with
multiple
goals of time and placement w/my age group. Hence if it's a snow storm,
and I
have raced in blizzards...it's all relative and I can find personal
fulfillment
in finishing in a certain "slot" regardless of time. When you get to be
elite
at your level...is there no satisfaction in "placement position" relative
to
the field of runners that day?

I had no real time goal. Low 2:50's was a guess, and I hit
halfway in a few seconds under 1:25. I know exactly what
you mean about the 'placement position' thing, but again,
because of the length of the race the recovery period and
resulting training disruption isn't worth it.

Quoted message said:

When you're as good as a runner as you are...the caliber you are....if you
find
yourself not delivering a suitable "showing" for your standard....do you
just
"chuck it" when you feel "your less than who you know you are"?...on that
day?

I appreciate the compliments - and the answer to your
questions here are that yes, I will "ease up" and run the
last part of a 5k or 10k in at less than maximal effort if
it appears I'm having a bad day and slowing down won't
affect my placement. This happens reasonably often to
me in races of less than 200 - 300 people.

Quoted message said:

sorry to hear about this and good luck in the spring...

Thanks! :-)

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton ON)
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
www.allfalldown.org

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read SwStudio's message of 17 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

David, so sorry to hear that. I was looking at the weather in Toronto
while
you were runing. Not good. At least you didn't waste a lot of time
training
for this (you did say you were ill-prepared).

Yeah, I'm not to worried.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Boston?

hahaha.... I have no Q-time!

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton ON)
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
www.allfalldown.org

Leafing through rec.running, I read SwStudio's message of 17 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read SwStudio's message of 17 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

David, so sorry to hear that. I was looking at the weather in Toronto
while
you were runing. Not good. At least you didn't waste a lot of time
training
for this (you did say you were ill-prepared).

Yeah, I'm not to worried.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Boston?

hahaha.... I have no Q-time!

Sorry. I thought maybe you'd done a marathon in the last year. Have you
thought about doing an easy one just to get your BQ. I'm sure you could
even on a bad day.

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John
Short, South African coach.

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read SwStudio's message of 17 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Boston?

hahaha.... I have no Q-time!

Sorry. I thought maybe you'd done a marathon in the last year. Have you
thought about doing an easy one just to get your BQ. I'm sure you could
even on a bad day.

Yeah, I am now (almost) 36, so all I need is a 3:15.
There's no marathons around here in the winter or
early spring though, and besides in March I have a
date with the race that took my appendix from me
last year!

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton ON)
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
www.allfalldown.org

SwStudio said:

I'm not an elite runner at all!

I remember coming to this newsgroup, and at the time, one of my goals was to
beat Lance. You, and the other guys around your level might as well have been
elites. Now that I'm running in more or less the same pack as some of the guys
I used to consider "elite", I still don't feel any closer to being an elite.

Still, the trophies, which I can win (a) if all the really fast people stay
home, or (b) as the fifth scorer on my team, are nice.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

SwStudio said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

right now looks like i'll be running the ATB. hope it's warmer!

i ran the full marathon. Now, I make no claim to
be fast. In fact, I admit to be very slow. But I
really am trying my hardest. Today was no different.

Rain really wasn't an issue. But cold, gusty wind
sure was for the first half or so. Then we moved into the city
more and it was fine.

I had planned just-to-finish (my first). At around km 17 my
left knee started giving signs of ITB coming on so
i was plenty worried. I told my running partner that
I might have to pack it in and i would meet him at
the finish line. I then focussed on minimizing the
development of ITB pain. I took my second tablet
of ibuprofen. I ran on the level where i could and with
my left leg higher when i could. I changed my plan from
running everywhere except hills to running when I could
except downhills (they were real killers).

Since I was now a waking-injured i had some good conversations
with the bike-based race support crew. round about km32 i knew
i would finish. i could even just walk it in. made it in just under
5 hours chip time (just over gun time). i'm happy. almost
dead last for my age group, but that's not a problem
for me. for some time i thought i was last completely
for ALL age groups.

with my poor prep and knee injuries, i'm real pleased just
to be able to complete this distance. next year, i'll plan
a bit better, earlier and maybe things will work out better.

because i got in so late most of the good food was
gone, but that was ok. i wasn't hungry anyway.
gel and ju-jubes and cookies on the course were plenty.

now, i have a question. i "freshened" up just before the gun.
i didn't need to pee throughout the whole race, and in fact,
i didn't until i got home some time later.

this seemed funny to me when i saw everyone running
into bushes to answer a call. i figured that maybe i was
getting dehydrated even tho i drank a full (small) cup
at every aid station (18 of them). so about halfway
thru i started drinking 2 cups. all of each cup too.
no spillage.

any thoughts on what i might change for next time?
thanks...thehick

Leafing through rec.running, I read frank-in-toronto's message of 17 Oct
2004:

Quoted message said:

Since I was now a waking-injured i had some good conversations
with the bike-based race support crew.

You mean there were some "sleeping-injured" as well? ;-)

Quoted message said:

with my poor prep and knee injuries, i'm real pleased just
to be able to complete this distance. next year, i'll plan
a bit better, earlier and maybe things will work out better.

You done good Frank! Didn't this all start with some sort of a family
challenge? Kind of a last minute thing?

Quoted message said:

because i got in so late most of the good food was
gone, but that was ok. i wasn't hungry anyway.
gel and ju-jubes and cookies on the course were plenty.

now, i have a question. i "freshened" up just before the gun.
i didn't need to pee throughout the whole race, and in fact,
i didn't until i got home some time later.

this seemed funny to me when i saw everyone running
into bushes to answer a call. i figured that maybe i was
getting dehydrated even tho i drank a full (small) cup
at every aid station (18 of them). so about halfway
thru i started drinking 2 cups. all of each cup too.
no spillage.

At my marathon last week I drank 20 oz just before starting, then 2 cups
at every aid station. I slowed to a walk and got every last drop. I never
had even the slightest urge to go. A lot of people were running in to the
woods between the 5 and 10 mile mark. I think you just managed your
fluids well.

Quoted message said:

any thoughts on what i might change for next time?

Recover, have fun, base building, then start a long marathon training
plan (18 or 24 weeks).

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John
Short, South African coach.

Phil M. said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read frank-in-toronto's message of 17 Oct
2004:

Quoted message said:

Since I was now a waking-injured i had some good conversations
with the bike-based race support crew.

You mean there were some "sleeping-injured" as well? ;-)

ok. how about "walking-injured". haha
<snip>

Quoted message said:

You done good Frank! Didn't this all start with some sort of a family
challenge? Kind of a last minute thing?

it did. posted under "6 deadly words" and if i may quote the
first paragraph or so:

"I thought you were a runner"

Spoken without thought. Not meant as unkind. So went
the start of my saturday family dinner. I've been
thinking about it ever since.

It all began with a family member asking me how my running
was going. I said "fine". She then told me about a friend
of hers who has run several marathons. I said "I'm not
ready yet. I've only done a 5K and a 10". Oh boy.
<the rest in available on google groups>

<snip>

Quoted message said:

At my marathon last week I drank 20 oz just before starting, then 2 cups
at every aid station. I slowed to a walk and got every last drop. I never
had even the slightest urge to go. A lot of people were running in to the
woods between the 5 and 10 mile mark. I think you just managed your
fluids well.

ok. i'm pleased i didn't have to visit a stinking
porta-potty too. i could use the woods for #1
but #2 might be embarrassing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any thoughts on what i might change for next time?

Recover, have fun, base building, then start a long marathon training
plan (18 or 24 weeks).

yep. that's the plan.

there were a lot of problems with hypothermia today.
cold damp windy.
oh. oh. bad combination. add improper clothes (shorts
on slow runners) and disaster looms. i had shorts
on under nylon pants and 2 tech shirts under a
jacket. a headband and a cap. if i lost the cap
i would live. if i had lost my headband, i woulda DNF.
honest. i don't know how those people in shorts even
did the first half of the marathon. that was the cold part.
....thehick

....thehick

I remember coming to this newsgroup, and at the time, one of my goals was to
beat Lance.
------
....ha! i surrender! now i stand in the shadow of your spot light. it's
funny...in the middle of a race i will recollect stuff i've read on this ng
from the usual suspects like dot, doug, oz, downie, the andy(s), et. al, for
aide in getting me through a race.

yup, this ng is a source of motivation & wisdom. Collectively we extrude
topics for the betterment of all who engage and lurk.

ps. i surrender at distance only donovan. indoor winter spint circuit?...the
battle is on! i'll be there this year....🙂

Funny....I always tell runners about this ng on the usenet....it's a shame
there are only a dozen or two active contributors....I would think w/the
running community as robust as it is supposed to be this ng would see explosive
growth...

Lanceandrew said:

ps. i surrender at distance only donovan. indoor winter spint circuit?...the
battle is on! i'll be there this year....🙂

I will be doing some of those Jan-Feb armory meets. I hear the track is being
resurfaced and will be even faster (though it was actually already very good
this year) I'll be aiming for sub 4:50 in the mile next year. You're welcome to
join me.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

A smart decision, no doubt, but a quick look at the 2003
and 2004 results would seem to suggest that the front (read:
from the winner to sub-3 finishers) runners were stronger
and more numerous despite the weather: any explanation for
this change - or was last year worse still, weather- or
fieldwise?

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

Only if you desire it stongly enough:-)

Anders

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Funny....I always tell runners about this ng on the usenet....it's a
shame
there are only a dozen or two active contributors....I would think
w/the
running community as robust as it is supposed to be this ng would see
explosive
growth...

They say the porno and viagra et al sites are doing well. Maybe we
should combine with the others to boost our numbers. Ladies post those
nudes. men post those dimensions. 😉

-DeSadeF

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:XZycd.2229$0v6.1746
@read1.cgocable.net:

Quoted message said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

I ended up running anyway, but dropped out not long
after halfway (1:24:57). The wind and rain made it really
impossible to run fast without expending huge amounts
of counter-acting effort. Resistance was futile! In a shorter
race I would have continued, but not a full marathon.

Maybe I'll do one in the spring...

cheers,

Probably a good choice. That was one of the uglier days I've seen for a
race. I had a couple of friends running the half, and another running
the full. I spent part of the day at the water station at the 8k (half)/
25k (full) mark, then biked the rest of the route taking pictures of my
friend.

According to the hourly weather on accuweather, their "real feel" (their
own temperature rating based on humidex or windchill plus amount/strength
of sunshine) varied from -2C to +4C, although the actual temp was showing
around 7C. The headwinds going west (and although the course is net 12km
south, it seems like more than half the course heads west...) were really
significant.

I felt sorry for those folks who had spent the summer training for their
first marathon, not much of an introduction to the sport!

Anyways, it seems like you hadn't set this race as a particular goal, so
who needs to spend an awful day like that.

Good luck with the next goal race - I intend to do ATB this spring so may
see you there.

dh

"frank-in-toronto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i ran the full marathon.

Way to go, Frank! The back-of-the-packers salute you.

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The weather was so ridiculous I almost didn't run it!

The last marathon I ran was NYC 1995. The temperature was in the 30's
F. While I was driving to the start I was being pelted with sleet. The
wind was gusting so much that it shoved me a full lane over.

Notice that was my last marathon. Too many things can go wrong the day
of the race that I feel it isn't worth it. This from someone who has
run enough marathons to make himself happy.

Better luck next year. You could go for Burlington Vt. I hear that is
a good marathon.

Andy