Torelli Master rims- oversized?

Wouldn't use them even if they were free. Built up a pair of wheels with these rims and they were
the hardest rims to mount tires on I have ever used. Unlaced them and sold em cheap. I tried 3
different tires and none went on without a MAJOR struggle. Pure garbaggio. YMMV. Richard

ddandan-<< A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are
'tight' and that fitting tires on them is a pain. >><BR><BR>

I have build and sold many of these and I would not describe them hard to get tires onto, not like
Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 04 Feb 2004 14:23:19 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo) said:

ddandan-<< A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are
'tight' and that fitting tires on them is a pain. >><BR><BR>

I have build and sold many of these and I would not describe them hard to get tires onto, not like
Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.

Peter Chisholm

Any chance of this shop having a bad batch? Rsborno/Richard says that he had major problems mounting
tires on them.

The way the LBS owner talked, it might have been that Torelli knew that there was an oversized batch
that hit stores and was willing to take them back because of this.

Any danger in trying to mount a tire on an unlaced rim? I could take one of my tires in to the shop
and try mounting it. Would I learn anything doing this, or does lacing change the rim in ways that
would make this test useless?

(Rsborno) said:

Wouldn't use them even if they were free. Built up a pair of wheels with these rims and they were
the hardest rims to mount tires on I have ever used. Unlaced them and sold em cheap. I tried 3
different tires and none went on without a MAJOR struggle. Pure garbaggio. YMMV. Richard

Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that they still let go to dealers.

Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:
: not like Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.

no [censored]. may wanna try vittorias on the torellis-- they're the only tires i can easily mount on my
campy atlanta rims.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight' and
that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was willing
to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is selling them
for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Hey, at least you could find the Torelli's. Last month when I wanted to build a wheel on them, no
one had them.

If I had the opportunity at $25 each, I would grab two. Some rims are a bit bigger than others, and
some tires are a bit smaller than others. As Peter said, Campy rims are big, as are the rims Shimano
uses for their paired spoke wheels. Michelin tires run small, so putting a Michelin on a Campy rim
is a workout. But the Vittoria Corsa CX clinchers glide right on.

- rick

Dan Daniel said:

Would I learn anything doing this, or does lacing change the rim in ways that would make

The Torelli Master is just a difficult rim to mount and remove tires from. I rarely use any tools
when changing out tires. I built a set of Torelli Master rims for my tandem. I was using Pasela
700x35 or 32 tires. I had to use 2 levers and one of them was metal. With other rims, Sun CRT 16 and
Wolber 59, these tires went right on and off by hand.

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight' and
that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was willing
to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is selling them
for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Dan-<< Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that they still let go to dealers. >><BR><BR>

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill could tell they were a 'bad
batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who have been making rims for a while.

Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They always mounted tires fine here.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4 Feb 2004 21:04:28 -0800, [email hidden] (Carl Fogel)

Quoted message said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight' and
that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was willing
to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is selling
them for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

So that was the strange smell in the shop, eh? I figured it was the messenger truing his wheel, but
it was a rim gone bad....

I don't know if Torelli (or the distributor?) thought or 'admitted' that the rims were bad. The shop
owner wasn't clear on this. I am not even sure that the owner thought that the rims were defective
versions of the Masters, that he had experience of other Masters that took the same tires with ease.
It may have been that the owner was having problems and the distributor was simply willing to take
them back. Good will, or maybe knowing that they would have no problem selling them elsewhere?

And you are going to tell me you have never glanced at the day-old sushi section in the store and
given it just a little thought?

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Dan-<< Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that they still let go to dealers. >><BR><BR>

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill could tell they were a 'bad
batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who have been making rims for a while.

Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They always mounted tires fine here.

Lots of complaints on the BOB list about these rims being really hard to mount tires on. Those guys
mostly use the traditional fabric rim tape, I suspect. Perhaps that's just a tad too thick? What rim
strips have you tended to use?

[email hidden] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight' and
that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was willing
to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is selling
them for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Whoa there, back the assumption truck back to the loading dock. Re-read the original message, which
you left quoted in your response. The dealer claimed they were oversized. The OP presumed that
Torelli thought they were 'bad' solely because Torelli was willing to accept them as a return.
Accepting an item as a return does NOT mean that the object is defective, it merely means that the
vendor wants to keep the dealer happy.

At this point all we know is:

1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted to sell rather than return.
3) dealer contends they are oversized.

Period. Anything more than that is assumption. *If* (and it is a very BIG *if*) your assumption is
correct, then we can add one more bit of knowledge: the dealer is willing to sell 'bad' merchandise.

Let's not get too wildly speculative here. I think it is just as likely that the dealer does not
want to deal with the hassles of customers with large rims/small tires, and there are lots of
combinations that do not work. Dealer probably does not sell Campy rims/wheels either because they
are 'bad'.

- rick

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight'
and that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was
willing to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is
selling them for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

So that was the strange smell in the shop, eh? I figured it was the messenger truing his wheel,
but it was a rim gone bad....

I don't know if Torelli (or the distributor?) thought or 'admitted' that the rims were bad. The
shop owner wasn't clear on this. I am not even sure that the owner thought that the rims were
defective versions of the Masters, that he had experience of other Masters that took the same
tires with ease. It may have been that the owner was having problems and the distributor was
simply willing to take them back. Good will, or maybe knowing that they would have no problem
selling them elsewhere?

And you are going to tell me you have never glanced at the day-old sushi section in the store and
given it just a little thought?

Dear Dan,

Actually, I have to tell you that I've never looked at sushi. Perhaps if I'm reincarnated as a sea
otter . . .

To return to the raw analogy, if the waiter says that maybe the fish is bad, the cook shrugs his
shoulders, and everyone else that you've asked in the restaurant is making faces or hurrying to the
men's room . . .

On the other hand, it's just a potentially tight rim that you've been warned will be a beast to
mount tires on, and it's only $25, and . . .

Why not put the $25 (or $50) into rims that the dealer thinks are good? It's your money and your
time and trouble building the wheels.

Would you bet that much on a proposition like this in Las Vegas? If you win, congratulations. If you
lose, you can always start a thread about what to do with a pair of bad rims that the dealer
wouldn't take back.

Carl Fogel

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Perhaps that's just a tad too thick? What rim strips have you tended to use?

the much cursed plastic michelins are easier, at least ime (& that's on campy atlantas).
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

[email hidden] (Rick Warner) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight'
and that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was
willing to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is
selling them for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Whoa there, back the assumption truck back to the loading dock. Re-read the original message,
which you left quoted in your response. The dealer claimed they were oversized. The OP presumed
that Torelli thought they were 'bad' solely because Torelli was willing to accept them as a
return. Accepting an item as a return does NOT mean that the object is defective, it merely means
that the vendor wants to keep the dealer happy.

At this point all we know is:

1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted to sell rather than return.
3) dealer contends they are oversized.

Period. Anything more than that is assumption. *If* (and it is a very BIG *if*) your assumption is
correct, then we can add one more bit of knowledge: the dealer is willing to sell 'bad'
merchandise.

Let's not get too wildly speculative here. I think it is just as likely that the dealer does not
want to deal with the hassles of customers with large rims/small tires, and there are lots of
combinations that do not work. Dealer probably does not sell Campy rims/wheels either because they
are 'bad'.

- rick

Dear Rick,

I hope that you don't mind if I order a steak while you're having the fish that the waiter says are
too much trouble to return and is selling for half-price. He said something about them being a bit
off, so I lost my appetite.

Carl Fogel

On 5 Feb 2004 11:44:01 -0800, [email hidden] (Rick Warner)

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner says that they are 'tight'
and that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was going to send them back to Torelli, who was
willing to accept them (meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is
selling them for $25 each.

Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a steal, but it is a decent
price for a rim that I have been considering. Thanks.

Dear Dan,

The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.

The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.

Hmmm . . .

If the waiter and the cook both told you that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their restaurant,
would you eat it if they lowered the price?

Whoa there, back the assumption truck back to the loading dock. Re-read the original message, which
you left quoted in your response. The dealer claimed they were oversized. The OP presumed that
Torelli thought they were 'bad' solely because Torelli was willing to accept them as a return.

Whoa there, back the reading truck up to the dock.... 🙂

In a later post, I did ask if there could be a bad batch of these rims, but not in this exchange.
But my original post was asking if tightness is a known problem on these rims. I didn't know if this
would mean a 'bad' batch or if it was a general issue in the way that other rims have a reputation
for being difficult to mount tires on.

Quoted message said:

Accepting an item as a return does NOT mean that the object is defective, it merely means that the
vendor wants to keep the dealer happy.

At this point all we know is:

1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted to sell rather than return.
3) dealer contends they are oversized.

'Tight' was his word 🙂

Quoted message said:

Period. Anything more than that is assumption. *If* (and it is a very BIG *if*) your assumption is
correct, then we can add one more bit of knowledge: the dealer is willing to sell 'bad'
merchandise.

Let's not get too wildly speculative here. I think it is just as likely that the dealer does not
want to deal with the hassles of customers with large rims/small tires, and there are lots of
combinations that do not work. Dealer probably does not sell Campy rims/wheels either because they
are 'bad'.

- rick

All in all, I think that this is what is happening.

The shop owner did not say that the rims were defective. He said that they were tight. From what I
am hearing here, and in one email that mentioned a change in 2000, I am heading to the impression
that recent Masters may very well be tight, and that the ones in the bike shop near me are
definitely tight. Not unusable, but .....

Thanks to everyone for their comments and experiences on these rims.

Now if I can just stop looking at a rim and smelling bad fish I'll be able to get the parts to build
up the next wheel....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dan-<< Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that

they still

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let go to dealers. >><BR><BR>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill could tell they were a 'bad
batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who have been making rims for a while.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They always mounted tires fine here.

Tim McNamara said:

Lots of complaints on the BOB list about these rims being really hard to mount tires on. Those
guys mostly use the traditional fabric rim tape, I suspect. Perhaps that's just a tad too thick?
What rim strips have you tended to use?

We haven't sold a lot of these (started with them last spring because Montreals are off) but in 40
wheels we didn't have any issues with mounting. Usually Michelin and some Velox.

Or maybe there really was a run of them slightly oversized.

That wouldn't mean they always and ever are too big, just that it's conceivable at the end or
beginning of a production run (a mis-set or a worn tool?) Just speculating.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

-snip maybe some rims are tight sometimes-

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Rick Warner) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>... -snip->>At this point all we know is:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted

to sell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rather than return.
3) dealer contends they are oversized. Period. Anything more than that is assumption.

-snip-

Carl Fogel said:

I hope that you don't mind if I order a steak while you're having the fish that the waiter says
are too much trouble to return and is selling for half-price. He said something about them being a
bit off, so I lost my appetite.

Cute though your sub-theme may be, why don't other dealers find that to be the case? I'm with
Rick on this

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Dan Daniel said:

Now if I can just stop looking at a rim and smelling bad fish I'll be

That sounds like one hell of a difficult rimjob...
--
Rick Onanian