topolino wheels

I've been on a set since last June. I love 'em. Summer crits, traininf rides, dirt road rides in the
fall with the CX bike, one CX race and CX practice, winter sloppy rides and a rainy really wet race
one Sunday ago and they're still rockin. The "factory" is 20 minutes away so I've been there
numerous times to have them look at the wheels. They have yet to go out of round, they accelerate
quickly and they are very stable. I find I'm faster on the downhills because they really track well.

Just my $0.02.

Ray

"Lanny R. Levenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm dreaming of light wheels and came a cross Topolino wheels www.topolinotech.com

and wondering if people have used them and what their experience has been with them. I'm riding
Mavic Open Pro CD with a Campy 10 setup (about

12000

Quoted message said:

miles and still true as the day I got them). Would these wheels be good for everyday riding? I
have seen the Zipp 303 wheels but they are tubular and a lot more $$ and I'm not sure if they are
worth the cost/bother of tubulars.

Lanny

BikeGeek top-posted:

Quoted message said:

I've been on a set since last June. I love 'em. Summer crits, traininf rides, dirt road rides in
the fall with the CX bike, one CX race and CX practice, winter sloppy rides and a rainy really
wet race one Sunday ago and they're still rockin. The "factory" is 20 minutes away so I've been
there numerous times to have them look at the wheels. They have yet to go out of round, they
accelerate quickly and they are very stable. I find I'm faster on the downhills because they
really track well.

Your description of these wheels is really interesting. Could you explain a bit more about the
stability, acceleration, and tracking benefits of these wheels?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm dreaming of light wheels and came a cross Topolino wheels www.topolinotech.com

and wondering if people have used them and what their experience has been with them. I'm riding
Mavic Open Pro CD with a Campy 10 setup (about 12000 miles and still true as the day I got them).
Would these wheels be good for everyday riding? I have seen the Zipp 303 wheels but they are
tubular and a lot more $$ and I'm not sure if they are worth the cost/bother of tubulars.

Lanny R. Levenson said:

I'm dreaming of light wheels and came a cross Topolino wheels www.topolinotech.com

Quoted message said:

and wondering if people have used them and what their experience has been with them. I'm riding
Mavic Open Pro CD with a Campy 10 setup (about 12000 miles and still true as the day I got them).
Would these wheels be good for everyday riding? I have seen the Zipp 303 wheels but they are
tubular and a lot more $$ and I'm not sure if they are worth the cost/bother of tubulars.

What do you imagine these wheels will do for you that your Open Pro/Campy wheels won't? Interesting
that they claim the carbon fibers provide greater stiffness as well as significantly "dampening"
road vibration.

Art Harris

I don't know if they'd be faster than the Mavic/Campy setup, but you'd have alot more carbon
fiber...........:-).

Quoted message said:

What do you imagine these wheels will do for you that your Open Pro/Campy wheels won't?
Interesting that they claim the carbon fibers provide greater stiffness as well as significantly
"dampening" road vibration.

Art Harris

<Your description of these wheels is really interesting. Could you explain a bit more about the
stability, acceleration, and tracking benefits of these wheels?>

Sure.

Stability - the wheels feel as if they "carve". I find I am faster than my spoked (Ultegra, 32 hole,
Velocity Aerohead(t)? rims) on downhills (that might also be tracking....). The wheels are (I'm no
engineer) vertically compliant (they "give" a bit - seems to me) and are stiff laterally. They do
take some shock off my CAAD6 Cannondale and they are great on my cross bike as well.

Acceleration - while I suck on the hills, I could probably spin a car tire up to speed quickly....so
I can't make a reasonable observation here. I did find that in crits I was able to jump a bit faster
to close gaps and for sprints. That may be more mental than less weight........

The wheels are light and tough, 2 things not usually found together in wheels. The light weight is
through the carbon hubs and kevlar spokes, not a really low number of spokes and silly, (around here
anyway), radial lacing patterns.

Why do you keep having the factory look at these wheels if there is nothing wrong with them?

-Dion

"BikeGeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been on a set since last June. I love 'em. Summer crits, traininf rides, dirt road rides in
the fall with the CX bike, one CX race and CX practice, winter sloppy rides and a rainy really wet
race one Sunday ago

and

Quoted message said:

they're still rockin. The "factory" is 20 minutes away so I've been there numerous times to have
them look at the wheels. They have yet to go out

of

Quoted message said:

round, they accelerate quickly and they are very stable. I find I'm

faster

Quoted message said:

on the downhills because they really track well.

Quoted message said:

I don't know if they'd be faster than the Mavic/Campy setup, but you'd have alot more carbon
fiber...........:-).

If you get a disc you can have a lot more carbon and they would be faster too.

"BikeGeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if they'd be faster than the Mavic/Campy setup, but you'd have alot more carbon
fiber...........:-).

Quoted message said:

What do you imagine these wheels will do for you that your Open Pro/Campy wheels won't?
Interesting that they claim the carbon fibers provide greater stiffness as well as significantly
"dampening" road vibration.

Art Harris

Topolino? Italian for Mickey Mouse. The FIAT Topolino 1936-1955, got its name from the rodent
of cartoons.

coa.duckburg.dkMMOpen ↗ disney.ittopolinoOpen ↗
topolino.org.uktopolino.org.ukOpen ↗

When I see spokes made of "Carbon Fiber for Stiffness... and Kevlar for Toughness" I wonder whose
leg they are pulling. These two materials have distinctly different elastic properties, making them
somewhat like spokes of aluminum and steel sandwiches. The aluminum would not contribute either
stiffness nor toughness because the "stiff" steel would bear all the load before the aluminum was
even mildly stressed.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

Because they were new and they wanted feedback since there were only 2 pair that were on the road.

"Dion Dock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do you keep having the factory look at these wheels if there is

nothing

Quoted message said:

wrong with them?

-Dion

But it would be lighter since you didn't need all that heavy steel, no?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Topolino? Italian for Mickey Mouse. The FIAT Topolino 1936-1955, got its name from the rodent of
cartoons.

coa.duckburg.dkMMOpen ↗ disney.ittopolinoOpen ↗
topolino.org.uktopolino.org.ukOpen ↗

When I see spokes made of "Carbon Fiber for Stiffness... and Kevlar for Toughness" I wonder whose
leg they are pulling. These two materials have distinctly different elastic properties, making
them somewhat like spokes of aluminum and steel sandwiches. The aluminum would not contribute
either stiffness nor toughness because the "stiff" steel would bear all the load before the
aluminum was even mildly stressed.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

BikeGeek said:

Stability - the wheels feel as if they "carve". I find I am faster than my spoked (Ultegra, 32
hole, Velocity Aerohead(t)? rims) on downhills (that might also be tracking....). The wheels are
(I'm no engineer) vertically compliant (they "give" a bit - seems to me) and are stiff laterally.
They do take some shock off my CAAD6 Cannondale and they are great on my cross bike as well.

Next time you're out riding these wheels, try to convince yourself they told you that the wheels
would be slower, less responsive and more laterally flexible and see if you can convince yourself
you feel those properties as well. At least try to forget what you "know" about those wheels and be
very subjective about the feedback you're really getting through the bars and the saddle.

Experience teaches that differences that are "obvious" often disappear completely in a blind test.

On "tracking" - remember that you shouldn't be putting any side load on the wheels unless you're
a very oddball rider (cornering like a gran prix motorcycle racer trying to drag your inside
knee). ;-)

On "compliance" - remove the tire and see how much weight you have to pile on the bike to move the
hub down a scant 1mm. Now put the tire back on and see how much deflection that same weight will
compress the tire. Divide the first by the total of the two and you have the percentage of
compliance the wheels contribute. Hint: don't expect a big number when you do the math.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip> On "tracking" - remember that you
shouldn't be putting any side load

Quoted message said:

on the wheels unless you're a very oddball rider (cornering like a gran prix motorcycle racer
trying to drag your inside knee). ;-)

Pardon my going off on a tangent here, but while I know it's true the side loads are small, I do
have to wonder about the effect of wheels' lateral stiffness on "tracking" or stability. You can
visibly move a rim laterally by pushing on it with one finger, so it really doesn't take much force
at all to displace it. And you do get side loads, particularly on a front wheel which is always
turning slightly out of the plane of motion as you make steering inputs/corrections. I know from my
days of flirting with light wheels that a 28H-15/16-GEL280 front definitely moves around enough to
hamper stability, particularly on a windy descent. A sudden gust of wind or a passing car at 40mph
would give you religion. ;-) In that case, a switch to slightly heavier, but much stiffer Sun M19A's
with 14/15's laced radially, heads-in on the front made a big difference in descending stability.
Same bike with 32H clinchers was dead-solid at 55+.

Not that that's an issue with most wheels. Certainly not with run-of-the-mill 32H clinchers which
the poster was comparing the Topolinos to; most such wheels are well stiffer than any
lightweight/low-spoke-count alternative. Not really buying the smoother-but-stiffer line here,
either; the only arguments for that might be the ones Klein used to use for his boron-wrapped Stage
frames way back when. Less unsprung weight and a bit of damping from the composite materials. Either
of which would likely pale in comparison to the difference in ride between a 23mm and a 25mm tire.

SB

I have a question. Why must someone who wants a set of "fancy" wheels try to justify their purchase
through their technological advantages. Honestly I am not here to argue technological advantages
with anyone. It is OK to desire a set of wheels because you like the look of carbon fiber or you
want a set of kevlar spokes but do not try and tell anyone that these make you ride faster, handle
better, or track straighter. That's the old, "My shoes are faster than your shoes" argument we all
heard in kindergarten. It's not the shoes that make you fast people, its the legs. I personally have
a set of Chris King hubbed Mavic Open Pros (Laced with black spokes to match the hubs and rims, for
purely asthetic reasons) on one of my bikes and a set of Bontrager Race X-Lites that came on my
other bike. Both are just fine wheels, and I get about equal performance out of either. The
Bontrager's look cooler and I expect my others to last longer.

What I am trying to say is if you want fancy wheels buy them for their looks and don't be ashamed of
that. If you don't like silly low spoked wheels don't buy them and leave people alone who like them
and their slightly more difficult service.

What it is important to understand is the behavior that goes along with purchasing boutique wheels.
People are not "tricked" into buying harder to service boutique wheels through marketing campaigns
it is just that some people have a willingness to pay a premium price for fancy wheels. It is the
same reason people buy cars like Jaguars with inferior reliability and higher service costs, purely
asthetic and image reasons. The "best" is a relative term and needs to be defined based on the
consumer and the product attrbutes they desire, i.e. what is best for one person may not be the best
for another.

Anyway, my two cents.

Michael Bourne

[email hidden]

"Lanny R. Levenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm dreaming of light wheels and came a cross Topolino wheels www.topolinotech.com

and wondering if people have used them and what their experience has been with them. I'm riding
Mavic Open Pro CD with a Campy 10 setup (about 12000 miles and still true as the day I got them).
Would these wheels be good for everyday riding? I have seen the Zipp 303 wheels but they are
tubular and a lot more $$ and I'm not sure if they are worth the cost/bother of tubulars.

Lanny

Michael, OK, I'm ashamed about considering the wheels in an attempt to keep up. Most likely, I
wouldn't buy them (I'm riding Mavic Open Pro's) but the idea of less weight makes sense. I've
handled some Zipp 303's in my LBS but they are tubular rims. That's why I was exploring the
internet and saw the Topolino wheels. If I were to really buy into this, I'd get the lighter
wheels, the Zipps.

Lanny "Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a question. Why must someone who wants a set of "fancy" wheels try to justify their
purchase through their technological advantages. Honestly I am not here to argue technological
advantages with anyone. It is OK to desire a set of wheels because you like the look of carbon
fiber or you want a set of kevlar spokes but do not try and tell anyone that these make you ride
faster, handle better, or track straighter. That's the old, "My shoes are faster than your shoes"
argument we all heard in kindergarten. It's not the shoes that make you fast people, its the legs.
I personally have a set of Chris King hubbed Mavic Open Pros (Laced with black spokes to match the
hubs and rims, for purely asthetic reasons) on one of my bikes and a set of Bontrager Race X-Lites
that came on my other bike. Both are just fine wheels, and I get about equal performance out of
either. The Bontrager's look cooler and I expect my others to last longer.

What I am trying to say is if you want fancy wheels buy them for their looks and don't be ashamed
of that. If you don't like silly low spoked wheels don't buy them and leave people alone who like
them and their slightly more difficult service.

What it is important to understand is the behavior that goes along with purchasing boutique
wheels. People are not "tricked" into buying harder to service boutique wheels through marketing
campaigns it is just that some people have a willingness to pay a premium price for fancy wheels.
It is the same reason people buy cars like Jaguars with inferior reliability and higher service
costs, purely asthetic and image reasons. The "best" is a relative term and needs to be defined
based on the consumer and the product attrbutes they desire, i.e. what is best for one person may
not be the best for another.

Anyway, my two cents.

Michael Bourne

[email hidden]

"Lanny R. Levenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm dreaming of light wheels and came a cross Topolino wheels www.topolinotech.com

and wondering if people have used them and what their experience has

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with them. I'm riding Mavic Open Pro CD with a Campy 10 setup (about

12000

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

miles and still true as the day I got them). Would these wheels be

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for everyday riding? I have seen the Zipp 303 wheels but they are

tubular

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and a lot more $$ and I'm not sure if they are worth the cost/bother of tubulars.

Lanny

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

hasn't this been "done" a million times?

Quoted message said:

. With regard to the "myth" of lower rotational mass,

Its true that it exits, but perhaps a myth that it makes any difference.

<snip - Ah I see, thats what you are saying with many words and numbers

On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:25:34 GMT [email hidden] wrote,

Quoted message said:

When I see spokes made of "Carbon Fiber for Stiffness... and Kevlar for Toughness" I wonder whose
leg they are pulling. These two materials have distinctly different elastic properties, making them
somewhat like spokes of aluminum and steel sandwiches. The aluminum would not contribute either
stiffness nor toughness because the "stiff" steel would bear all the load before the aluminum was
even mildly stressed.

I would take that as a poor way of saying that the carbon is for structural strength (stiffness of
the wheel) and the kevlar is to protect the carbon from damage, making it tougher.

I can't similarly translate "dampen road vibration" to something plausible.
--

Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.

"Dave Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:25:34 GMT [email hidden] wrote,

Quoted message said:

When I see spokes made of "Carbon Fiber for Stiffness... and Kevlar for Toughness" I wonder whose
leg they are pulling. These two materials have distinctly different elastic properties, making
them somewhat like spokes of aluminum and steel sandwiches. The aluminum would not contribute
either stiffness nor toughness because the "stiff" steel would bear all the load before the
aluminum was even mildly stressed.

I would take that as a poor way of saying that the carbon is for structural strength (stiffness of
the wheel) and the kevlar is to protect the carbon from damage, making it tougher.

It is the best way of saying that the carbon is there to slow down the creep of the kevlar.

--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

[email hidden] wrote,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I see spokes made of "Carbon Fiber for Stiffness... and Kevlar for Toughness" I wonder whose
leg they are pulling. These two materials have distinctly different elastic properties, making
them somewhat like spokes of aluminum and steel sandwiches. The aluminum would not contribute
either stiffness nor toughness because the "stiff" steel would bear all the load before the
aluminum was even mildly stressed.

I would take that as a poor way of saying that the carbon is for structural strength (stiffness of
the wheel) and the kevlar is to protect the carbon from damage, making it tougher.

It is the best way of saying that the carbon is there to slow down the creep of the kevlar.

I think it is just like the Spinergy PBO's design. They use a plastic coating to protect the carbon. Spinergy states that the spokes can handle scratches but if the plastic is penitrated or cut through then the spoke should be replaced.

This design looks like it uses the Kevlar to coat the carbon (and also use it to form a bladed spoke).

So the original comment is correct but it is not a leg puller but simply the truth. The carbon is the load (or should I say tension) bearing material and the Kevlar simply protects the carbon (add toughness). Spinergy solves the same problem using a plastic coating instead of Kevlar.

JBP

"prestonjb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is the best way of saying that the carbon is there to slow down the creep of the kevlar.

That sounds familiar:

tinyurl.comc6ctOpen ↗ ;-)

No carbon that I know of in the PBO/SPOX spokes, either.

--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================