top athletes don't ride bicycles

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Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports

By Mike Imrem

[s]

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Cone on! He writes for a SUBURBAN Chicago newspaper.

crit pro said:

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Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports

By Mike Imrem

How thought-provoking over the weekend that the paths of Lance Armstrong
and Ricky Williams crossed halfway around the world from each other.

In France, Armstrong won the Tour de France for a record sixth consecutive
time. From Hawaii, Williams announced his retirement from the NFL.

What this started me thinking about again is the claim Armstrong
is the world's greatest athlete.

I have said this before: Even if Armstrong is the world's most dominant
athlete ever, he's nowhere near the world's greatest athlete.

What does Williams have to do with the equation?

Well, to me the suddenly former Dolphins running back was a better
athlete than Armstrong is. So is anyone who can hit Kerry Wood's curveball
or execute a crossover dribble in Kobe Bryant's face.

Wayne Gretzky was skinny enough in his prime to win the Tour de
France. Dennis Rodman could have if it wouldn't have bored him to
death. Alex Rodriguez would have if there were more money in it.

This isn't personal on my part. A half-hour on a stationary bike
is about my limit. I'd have trouble riding around France for three
weeks in a Porsche unless it was chauffeur-driven.

Back to Williams, the point being anybody who ever carried the football
once in the NFL is a better athlete than even cycling's best ever.

Put it this way: Williams could peddle a bicycle for a couple hours
in the Tour de France but Armstrong couldn't survive a single hit
in the NFL.

That doesn't minimize Armstrong's accomplishments. His training
regimen suggests he's superhuman and his cycling record confirms the
notion.

But I'm sorry ... neither makes him more athletic than an NFL running
back.

Like, it's no surprise Williams announced his retirement the week
NFL training camps begin, because few football players want to go
through that. Nor is it surprising Williams quit after five seasons,
because that's as long as any human being should have to endure the
punishment.

It's one thing to tolerate physical agony while sitting on a bicycle.
It's another while angry 300-pounders are slamming into you.

Just imagine the speed, agility and muscle - the athleticism - it
takes to navigate past, around and through people like Ray Lewis,
Brian Urlacher and Warren Sapp.

Walter Payton did it for 13 seasons. After a couple, he indicated
he would play five total, then go teach hearing-impaired children.
Unlike Williams, however, Payton just kept on keepin' on.

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

I mean, if Payton could run up and down that Arlington Heights hill
to get in shape for NFL beatings, don't you think he could have withstood
a cyclist's workouts?

If Ricky Williams stays retired he will be the rare football player
- along with the likes of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Robert Smith
- with the strength to both play that brutal game and to leave us
wanting more.

Williams wants to explore other interests, fulfill other ambitions
and experience other sensations.

Who knows, he might even take up cycling just for the fun of it
and win the Tour de France just for the heck of it.

If so, he won't be the athlete he was as an NFL running back.

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-------------------------
We had a phenomenal response to the article written by the Daily Herald?s Mike Imrem
last week in which it was suggested that Lance Armstrong was not a top athlete. In
fact, so phenomenal was the response that Mr Imrem?s inbox stopped receiving mail
halfway through last week as procycling readers quibbled with his assessment of
Armstrong?s achievements and capabilities.
--------------------------

Read it at http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=384

J. Spaceman

crit pro said:

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Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports

By Mike Imrem

How thought-provoking over the weekend that the paths of Lance Armstrong
and Ricky Williams crossed halfway around the world from each other.

In France, Armstrong won the Tour de France for a record sixth consecutive
time. From Hawaii, Williams announced his retirement from the NFL.

What this started me thinking about again is the claim Armstrong
is the world's greatest athlete.

I have said this before: Even if Armstrong is the world's most dominant
athlete ever, he's nowhere near the world's greatest athlete.

What does Williams have to do with the equation?

Well, to me the suddenly former Dolphins running back was a better
athlete than Armstrong is. So is anyone who can hit Kerry Wood's curveball
or execute a crossover dribble in Kobe Bryant's face.

Wayne Gretzky was skinny enough in his prime to win the Tour de
France. Dennis Rodman could have if it wouldn't have bored him to
death. Alex Rodriguez would have if there were more money in it.

This isn't personal on my part. A half-hour on a stationary bike
is about my limit. I'd have trouble riding around France for three
weeks in a Porsche unless it was chauffeur-driven.

Back to Williams, the point being anybody who ever carried the football
once in the NFL is a better athlete than even cycling's best ever.

Put it this way: Williams could peddle a bicycle for a couple hours
in the Tour de France but Armstrong couldn't survive a single hit
in the NFL.

That doesn't minimize Armstrong's accomplishments. His training
regimen suggests he's superhuman and his cycling record confirms the
notion.

But I'm sorry ... neither makes him more athletic than an NFL running
back.

Like, it's no surprise Williams announced his retirement the week
NFL training camps begin, because few football players want to go
through that. Nor is it surprising Williams quit after five seasons,
because that's as long as any human being should have to endure the
punishment.

It's one thing to tolerate physical agony while sitting on a bicycle.
It's another while angry 300-pounders are slamming into you.

Just imagine the speed, agility and muscle - the athleticism - it
takes to navigate past, around and through people like Ray Lewis,
Brian Urlacher and Warren Sapp.

Walter Payton did it for 13 seasons. After a couple, he indicated
he would play five total, then go teach hearing-impaired children.
Unlike Williams, however, Payton just kept on keepin' on.

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

I mean, if Payton could run up and down that Arlington Heights hill
to get in shape for NFL beatings, don't you think he could have withstood
a cyclist's workouts?

If Ricky Williams stays retired he will be the rare football player
- along with the likes of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Robert Smith
- with the strength to both play that brutal game and to leave us
wanting more.

Williams wants to explore other interests, fulfill other ambitions
and experience other sensations.

Who knows, he might even take up cycling just for the fun of it
and win the Tour de France just for the heck of it.

If so, he won't be the athlete he was as an NFL running back.

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--
My email address ([email hidden]) is fake. Email sent to it will
only get caught in my spam tarpit.

You know that that guy was looking for that kind of response...

Richard Adams <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
[quote="Quoted message"]

crit pro said:

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Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports

By Mike Imrem

Quoted message said:

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"crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports
By Mike Imrem

He's a pathetic writer at a lame paper begging for attention . . . the
last sport he lambasted ignorantly was soccer, and he took joy in
printing some responses he got (but didn't "get"😉. Still, I sent this to
him a week or two ago:

I know you will dismiss this comment just as I dismissed your column on
Monday. You might think it's just a bike-weenie desperate for
recognition for his sport; you would be wrong. I know, however, that
your column was just a desperate attempt by a mediocre, 'medium-time'
writer looking for publicity anywhere you can get it. I know your m.o.
has been to criticize sports you feel are less 'worthy' or 'athletic'
(according to your random scale of athleticism) in the past, and I know
you live for replies like this that you can discount and laugh at,
assured that they're in the wrong and comfy in your world view. Unlike
you and your assumptions, I would be and am right about all that. That's
why, although your article made me mad enough to reply to you, I will
feel a lot better, I'm pretty sure, than you once I hit 'send'.

I won't even go deeply into my complaints with the article, as you
probably knew well where the logical and factual errors were in it as
you gleefully sent it off to your editor. The title claim that "top
athletes don't ride bicycles", then the claim that lots of top athletes
of yesterday and today could win the TDF if they'd wanted to, is just
the most obvious example. Make up your mind, Mike: is winning the
toughest athletic competition in the modern world a great
accomplishment, or not? You'd be better off trying to make that claim
that is the first refuge of hack-sportswriters trying to start trouble:
that cycling isn't a sport at all. To concede that it is, but then to
claim that Wayne Gretzky or Dennis Rodman (ha!) could do it is laughable
at best and blatantly ignorant in actuality. I would expect some
research to be done before writing, even from you, Mike. In fact, I
think the only true 'statement' in your article was this: "Armstrong
couldn't survive a single hit in the NFL." Although it might not be
specifically true (I played football and have seen plenty of kickers and
QBs a lot 'sissier' looking than Lance), you're right that Armstrong
could not be an NFL star. Neither could Pedro Martinez or Jason Kidd;
does that make them worse athletes? To arbitrarily decide that football
is the ultimate sport simply because you or the readers you're trying
desperately to appeal to prefer it is insane.

I don't actually favor cycling as my favorite sport, but I don't pretend
that anyone but the world-class athletes who train literally year-round
(there's no off-season or training camps for cyclists) and burn 7,000+
calories a day to ride literally around and across France could
accomplish what they do. So congratulations on stirring up anger again;
I hope we cycling fans are more eloquent than soccer hooligans.

Brendon Troy
[email hidden]

"Brendon M. Troy" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports
By Mike Imrem

He's a pathetic writer at a lame paper begging for attention . . . the
last sport he lambasted ignorantly was soccer, and he took joy in
printing some responses he got (but didn't "get"😉. Still, I sent this

to

Quoted message said:

him a week or two ago:

I know you will dismiss this comment just as I dismissed your column

on

Quoted message said:

Monday. You might think it's just a bike-weenie desperate for
recognition for his sport; you would be wrong. I know, however, that
your column was just a desperate attempt by a mediocre, 'medium-time'
writer looking for publicity anywhere you can get it. I know your m.o.
has been to criticize sports you feel are less 'worthy' or 'athletic'
(according to your random scale of athleticism) in the past, and I

know

Quoted message said:

you live for replies like this that you can discount and laugh at,
assured that they're in the wrong and comfy in your world view. Unlike
you and your assumptions, I would be and am right about all that.

That's

Quoted message said:

why, although your article made me mad enough to reply to you, I will
feel a lot better, I'm pretty sure, than you once I hit 'send'.

I won't even go deeply into my complaints with the article, as you
probably knew well where the logical and factual errors were in it as
you gleefully sent it off to your editor. The title claim that "top
athletes don't ride bicycles", then the claim that lots of top

athletes

Quoted message said:

of yesterday and today could win the TDF if they'd wanted to, is just
the most obvious example. Make up your mind, Mike: is winning the
toughest athletic competition in the modern world a great
accomplishment, or not? You'd be better off trying to make that claim
that is the first refuge of hack-sportswriters trying to start

trouble:

Quoted message said:

that cycling isn't a sport at all. To concede that it is, but then to
claim that Wayne Gretzky or Dennis Rodman (ha!) could do it is

laughable

Quoted message said:

at best and blatantly ignorant in actuality. I would expect some
research to be done before writing, even from you, Mike. In fact, I
think the only true 'statement' in your article was this: "Armstrong
couldn't survive a single hit in the NFL." Although it might not be
specifically true (I played football and have seen plenty of kickers

and

Quoted message said:

QBs a lot 'sissier' looking than Lance), you're right that Armstrong
could not be an NFL star. Neither could Pedro Martinez or Jason Kidd;
does that make them worse athletes? To arbitrarily decide that

football

Quoted message said:

is the ultimate sport simply because you or the readers you're trying
desperately to appeal to prefer it is insane.

I don't actually favor cycling as my favorite sport, but I don't

pretend

Quoted message said:

that anyone but the world-class athletes who train literally

year-round

Quoted message said:

(there's no off-season or training camps for cyclists) and burn 7,000+
calories a day to ride literally around and across France could
accomplish what they do. So congratulations on stirring up anger

again;

Quoted message said:

I hope we cycling fans are more eloquent than soccer hooligans.

This was mine which not suprisingly came back undelivered.....
Mike, thank you for sharing your personal opinion based on
ignorance..yawn. Williams would be off the back 200yds into the first
climb. I guess being noticed is more important to you than being
informed which is probably why your mailbox is full right now.

PH

"Phillip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Adams <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...
[quote="Quoted message"][quote="Quoted message"]

crit pro said:

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Top athletes don't ride bicycles
Daily Herald Reports

By Mike Imrem

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This dead horse isn't worth further beating.

Next!

If I remember, it was the football players that tried out for rugby
that were always puking on the side of the field. Football is for
padded pussies, get real and play rugby or go ride a bike.

Phillip

Quoted message said:

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

You know what the biggest problem with cycling and respectability is?

Accessibility.

Riding a bike is such a common activity that it's taken for granted, rather
than assumed to be any sort of a skill-laden endeavor. Every sports writer
who drives to work comes across (and is perhaps inconvenienced by) people on
bikes. To many of them, the idea of making a huge deal out of the
athleticism required in a bicycle race makes about as much sense as it would
to glorify the rigors of a power-walking competition.

You just get on a bike, turn the pedals and go. If you're a weenie, you
claim you're not as fast as the next guy because he has a better bike, or
maybe your brake is rubbing.

This is somewhat personal to me; my father was the Sports Editor for the
local newspaper (back in the day when local newspapers were a significant
thing) for 25 years, and his long-haired weirdo son
(www.ChainReaction.com/ancientstuff.htm for proof) sucked at sports that
required you to move towards high-speed projectiles and instead took up the
more-than-obscure sport of bicycle racing. Other dads got to brag about
their son's skills at quarterback or running the 440 or how many home runs
they hit. My dad, the Sports Editor, got the weirdo kid who rode a bike
wearing a strange outfit. Racing bikes? Maybe that was something done in
Europe, and had some respect there, but it was thus one of those things that
defined why the US was the dominant sports culture of the world!

And, truth be told, one of the reasons I took up bicycle racing was because
it *was* counter-cultural. Or at least it had that appeal to an outsider.
But once you got inside, you found an entirely different world, one in which
there was a strong sense of structure & purpose, with a lot of attention to
training & technique.

My dad had written a couple of columns previously about bike racing (the
first one being the historic occasion of the very-first use of videotape at
a sporting event- the Redwood City Criterium, which was held in front of
Ampex), so it wasn't entirely obtuse to him. And when I started racing, he
started covering the more-prestigious local races (such as the Tour of
California) and became something of a liaison between bicycle racing and the
other local news organizations. He was very impressed with guys like Neel,
Crawford, Brinks... and some young upstart named LeMond. He became a fan of
the sport.

Everything's personal.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

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Cool move: Smith cuts a practice
By Bob LeGere Daily Herald Sports Writer

At the conclusion of Monday's two-hour, five-minute practice in 88-degree
heat and oppressive humidity, the Bears huddled around coach Lovie
Smith and moments later let out a cheer.

Smith canceled today's morning practice, leaving just the evening
practice under the lights at the Olivet Nazarene football stadium.
The head coach had built in extra practices to his original schedule,
figuring at least one would be canceled by inclement weather. But
every practice has gone on as scheduled, giving Smith the option of
eliminating one workout.

It couldn't have come at a better time, with players dropping like
flies, many of them with hamstring injuries.

Thirteen players missed Monday morning's two-hour and 20-minute
session, and 14 players sat out in the afternoon. Wide receivers Marty
Booker and Jamin Elliott, linebacker Brian Urlacher and tight ends
Desmond Clark and John Gilmore all have hamstring ailments which caused
them to miss both of Monday's practices. Running back Anthony Thomas
has been sidelined with a side/abdominal injury that may keep him
out a while. Mike Gandy (groin), Alex Brown (calf), wide receiver
Justin Gage (back) and Jerry Azumah (neck) also missed Monday's practices.
Azumah went to Pittsburgh to seek a second opinion on his injury.

"There's not a concern; we're just getting a second opinion," Smith
said. "I like to play Dr. Smith from time to time, but right now I
really can't. We all want to make sure before we bring him back on
the field. It's an area that you need to get a few opinions on."

Offensive tackle Aaron Gibson was rested in the first practice,
but his knees still bothered him enough in the afternoon to keep him
from finishing that session. Guard Rex Tucker rested his surgical
ankles in the afternoon after practicing in the morning and John Tait
followed the same schedule to rest his knees.

Down time: As part of offensive coordinator Terry Shea's plan to
prevent tired arms in training camp, No. 2 quarterback Jonathan Quinn
did not throw in the Monday afternoon practice.

As a result, rookie Craig Krenzel, who has thrown the ball more
accurately than Quinn most of camp, got additional reps. Krenzel has
impressed Shea with his precision passing.

"He hasn't changed a bit in terms of my evaluation," Shea said.
"I liked his (footwork) coming out of college, and now I like his
spin on the ball. He's got a real knack for sticking the ball in there.
They were a little concerned coming out of college about his lack
of accuracy. I don't see that at all. It's just a product of getting
more and more reps, which he does in this system."

On guard: With guard Mike Gandy still out, Terrence Metcalf worked
with the first team ahead of eight-time Pro Bowler Ruben Brown, surprising
a few observers.

"We're just looking at different combinations, really," coach Lovie
Smith said. "Ruben came out a little bit; he's been a little sore.
We gave Terrence some reps Sunday, and he had an excellent practice.
Right now, we're a new staff rolling people in. If you play well,
you get more reps."

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

You know what the biggest problem with cycling and respectability is?

Accessibility.

Riding a bike is such a common activity that it's taken for granted, rather
than assumed to be any sort of a skill-laden endeavor. Every sports writer
who drives to work comes across (and is perhaps inconvenienced by) people on
bikes. To many of them, the idea of making a huge deal out of the
athleticism required in a bicycle race makes about as much sense as it would
to glorify the rigors of a power-walking competition.

You just get on a bike, turn the pedals and go. If you're a weenie, you
claim you're not as fast as the next guy because he has a better bike, or
maybe your brake is rubbing.

Well you know, cycling isn't a very skill-laden endeavor. But neither is
distance running (I'm of two minds as to which is less skillful).

Most of the major sports we think of require a lot of athleticism and a
lot of skill. Building cardio is a prerequisite for being a great
basketball/hockey/soccer player (baseball and football have different
but still substantial conditioning demands), but means nothing compared
to the skill-building required besides.

Cycling, by comparison, is almost nothing but conditioning and
athleticism. There is a pretty considerable amount of tactical subtlety,
but these days the riders don't even need to have that: as long as the
DS uses the radio correctly, the DS can have the tactics and the rider
can have the legs (to a certain extent).

Think about it: road cyclists do almost no skill-building exercises (the
equivalent of batting practice or skill drills in other sports) aside
from that inherently gained by the volume of cardiovascular training
they do.

For me, a not-terribly-skilled person, this is much of the attraction of
cycling: I corner pretty well because of years riding a motorcycle and
all-weather commuting, and that's about it for skill. The rest is
training the legs as often as I can (I don't usually have to worry about
overtraining) and showing the will to make the attacks and follow the
breaks even when my legs hurt.

Cycling is a simple sport: daddy makes them suffer, and suffering plus a
modicum of tactics is the key to victory.

I should say this applies mainly to road riding. Some riding disciplines
(downhilling, madisons, or even XC and BMX) are much more skill-oriented.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Quoted message said:

stewart fleming said that rugby players have padding.

Yes, but it's between their ears.

;o)

------
Dave Casey - Realtor
www.LasVegasHomesDirect.com
[email hidden]

If you think cycling (i.e., road racing) isn't a skill-laden endeavor,
I suspect that you don't really know much about it. The guys who win
the most aren't necessarily the guys with the highest VO2s or even the
best trained. The people who win are almost always the ones who, along
with being fit, are the best at knowing how to read races and who
execute the correct strategy - which is the definition of skill.

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

You know what the biggest problem with cycling and respectability is?

Accessibility.

Riding a bike is such a common activity that it's taken for granted, rather
than assumed to be any sort of a skill-laden endeavor. Every sports writer
who drives to work comes across (and is perhaps inconvenienced by) people on
bikes. To many of them, the idea of making a huge deal out of the
athleticism required in a bicycle race makes about as much sense as it would
to glorify the rigors of a power-walking competition.

You just get on a bike, turn the pedals and go. If you're a weenie, you
claim you're not as fast as the next guy because he has a better bike, or
maybe your brake is rubbing.

Well you know, cycling isn't a very skill-laden endeavor. But neither is
distance running (I'm of two minds as to which is less skillful).

Most of the major sports we think of require a lot of athleticism and a
lot of skill. Building cardio is a prerequisite for being a great
basketball/hockey/soccer player (baseball and football have different
but still substantial conditioning demands), but means nothing compared
to the skill-building required besides.

Cycling, by comparison, is almost nothing but conditioning and
athleticism. There is a pretty considerable amount of tactical subtlety,
but these days the riders don't even need to have that: as long as the
DS uses the radio correctly, the DS can have the tactics and the rider
can have the legs (to a certain extent).

Think about it: road cyclists do almost no skill-building exercises (the
equivalent of batting practice or skill drills in other sports) aside
from that inherently gained by the volume of cardiovascular training
they do.

For me, a not-terribly-skilled person, this is much of the attraction of
cycling: I corner pretty well because of years riding a motorcycle and
all-weather commuting, and that's about it for skill. The rest is
training the legs as often as I can (I don't usually have to worry about
overtraining) and showing the will to make the attacks and follow the
breaks even when my legs hurt.

Cycling is a simple sport: daddy makes them suffer, and suffering plus a
modicum of tactics is the key to victory.

I should say this applies mainly to road riding. Some riding disciplines
(downhilling, madisons, or even XC and BMX) are much more skill-oriented.

Yeah, but they don't throw a ball around 🙄

Why get in a lather over someone else's view of what constitutes a great
athlete?

Okay, so he's impressed by a bunch of guys without necks slamming into
each other. Fine. I'm not as impressed by them as by, for instance,
guys who can cycle 3800KM in 20 days or complete an Ironman tri in a
rather short timeframe.

Define your own criteria as to what constitutes a great athlete, measure
the athletes you encounter against those criteria, and honour them
appropriately.

Ignore the dweebs who simply write about what others have done.

Jeff

Ryan Cousineau said:

Well you know, cycling isn't a very skill-laden endeavor. But neither is
distance running (I'm of two minds as to which is less skillful).

You corner well, which requires skill. It takes skill and guts to
descend a twisty mountain road at 50 mph.

How much time do you spend in a paceline? Or a peloton? Pro pelotons are
tighter and swirl more than the C level. Even at the C level, how much
time do you spend trying to stay near the front?

The goof who wrote about Ricky Williams being all that doesn't realize
that Ricky wouldn't last 20 minutes in even a flat TdF stage without
training. And until he lost about 50 pounds, as soon as the road tilted
up more than 2%, he'd be history.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(burt hoovis) said:

If you think cycling (i.e., road racing) isn't a skill-laden endeavor,
I suspect that you don't really know much about it. The guys who win
the most aren't necessarily the guys with the highest VO2s or even the
best trained. The people who win are almost always the ones who, along
with being fit, are the best at knowing how to read races and who
execute the correct strategy - which is the definition of skill.

Hm. This would be an excellent point, except for the following paragraph
which was in my post and which you included in your reply:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cycling, by comparison, is almost nothing but conditioning and
athleticism. There is a pretty considerable amount of tactical subtlety,
but these days the riders don't even need to have that: as long as the
DS uses the radio correctly, the DS can have the tactics and the rider
can have the legs (to a certain extent).

To expand on that thought, tactical subtlety (or "race strategy"😉 is not
really an athletic skill, which is what I was getting at. It's the
difference between drawing up a play pattern in football, and being the
QB who throws the pass. The former is vital to success in the sport, but
the latter is the learned athletic skill that makes the play execution
possible.

Similarly to cycling, the brains that draw up the plan do not have to be
in the head attached to the bodies that execute the plan.

I'm willing to concede that reading races correctly is an important
skill. I had a pretty acute experience this week in my training race,
when I picked the wrong wheel to follow in the sprint. One team had two
riders in the long-gone break, so I figured one of their well-rested
riders who had sat in the pack for the whole race would be good for the
sprint. I was wrong: about four guys went around him 🙁.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that there's a pretty strong correlation
between how riders do in hill climb, TT, or track sprint events (in
other words, events that one way or another test pure power) and how
they do in road races. I would be very interested in examples to the
contrary at elite levels of the sport.

I am totally willing to believe there are dumb, strong riders in the
amateur ranks, or smart fattie masters. But I suspect that cycling
skills are learned easily enough that very few elite riders can
consistently win due to tactical superiority.

To take an extreme example, GC tours are almost always won by a rider
who is dominant in either TTs or the mountains, and is at least adequate
at the other. This suggests that watts trump tactics.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Raptor said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Well you know, cycling isn't a very skill-laden endeavor. But neither is
distance running (I'm of two minds as to which is less skillful).

You corner well, which requires skill. It takes skill and guts to
descend a twisty mountain road at 50 mph.

How much time do you spend in a paceline? Or a peloton? Pro pelotons are
tighter and swirl more than the C level. Even at the C level, how much
time do you spend trying to stay near the front?

All of it 🙂. No really. I make an effort to be a factor, and I'm fit
enough to be a factor (fit for a Cat 4, that is). I'm not part of 200
pros entering a corner 200 m from the finish, but I have enough tactical
knowledge to know when to work at the front, how much to work (enough to
look good to other riders, not so much that I burn matches; it worked
yeseterday, except for the part where I couldn't follow the winning move
and did badly in the sprint. But I started my sprint as fourth wheel).

But cornering well mostly means I'm a little less likely to crash, and I
work a little less at the exit. Put me up against a hypothetical rider
with wobblier cornering but just a bit more power, and "bit more power"
is likely to make the difference, providing tactics don't.

Quoted message said:

The goof who wrote about Ricky Williams being all that doesn't realize
that Ricky wouldn't last 20 minutes in even a flat TdF stage without
training. And until he lost about 50 pounds, as soon as the road tilted
up more than 2%, he'd be history.

Well, of course. I am not arguing against the athletic prowess of
cyclists, all of whom are colossal athletes. Along with other cardio
athletes, track sprinters, and a few others, cyclists exist in a realm
where technique matters a little bit but conditioning is all-important.

As I said before, cyclists basically don't practice skills (in the way
that, say, hockey players do skill drills, be they 3-year-olds or NHL
pros) outside of what skills they gain in the course of their normal
conditioning and racing schedule. Maybe the occasional bump drill,
perhaps a bit of TTT practice, and for sprinters, probably a bit of
drilling to make sure the leadout comes off correctly. But it's a drop
in the bucket compared to 1000-2000 hours of cardio training each year.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Now, don't you think if Payton applied himself to cycling the way
he did to football - and if it were as financially and emotionally
rewarding to Americans - that he could have become Armstrong?

I'd love to see Payton on a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know what the biggest problem with cycling and respectability is?

Accessibility.

On three fronts. Money, knowledge and places to ride.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Riding a bike is such a common activity that it's taken for granted,

rather

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than assumed to be any sort of a skill-laden endeavor. Every sports

writer

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who drives to work comes across (and is perhaps inconvenienced by)

people on

Quoted message said:

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bikes. To many of them, the idea of making a huge deal out of the
athleticism required in a bicycle race makes about as much sense as it

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to glorify the rigors of a power-walking competition.

You just get on a bike, turn the pedals and go. If you're a weenie, you
claim you're not as fast as the next guy because he has a better bike,

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maybe your brake is rubbing.

Well you know, cycling isn't a very skill-laden endeavor. But neither is
distance running (I'm of two minds as to which is less skillful).

Most of the major sports we think of require a lot of athleticism and a
lot of skill. Building cardio is a prerequisite for being a great
basketball/hockey/soccer player (baseball and football have different
but still substantial conditioning demands), but means nothing compared
to the skill-building required besides.

I think cycling and golf are at opposite ends of what can be considered
sport. Golf is almost like playing the piano in that fitness would be nice
but is not essential. In road cycling, the type of dexterity required by go
lf or playing the piano would be nice but is not essential. I'm really
impressed with the people who have mastered either sport.

I get a kick out of all these people who throw a tantrum when someone makes
fun of cycling and then turn around and denigrate other sports in a similar
manner. The trick is to find the sports you enjoy and let other people
enjoy their sports.