Too young to be a retrogrouch?

Gooserider said:

Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Wear the moniker with pride! :P

I'm a 33 y/o retrogrouch and proud of it!

Age has little to do with it, though I think we're both old enough to have
grown up with the last of the "traditional" bikes during the eighties. 😄

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:44:24 GMT, "Gooserider" <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Not unless it's a fixer with toeclips and straps ;-)

I hanker after a Hetchins myself...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Gooserider said:

I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger,
some
older. I am the only one riding a steel bike in a sea of oversized
aluminum,
titanium, and carbon fiber. After our last ride we got on to the subject
of
dream bikes. The usuals came up---Litespeeds, Colnagos, Trek 5900s, etc.
I
mentioned that I would rather ride a custom lugged Waterford, a Richard
Sachs, or a Rivendell, and they all pegged me with the "retrogrouch"
moniker. Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Too young? Do your parents know where you are? The riders that drive me
up the wall are in the 24--30 age group that have grown up in a disposable,
recycle world and have no appreciation for true classics. At 34 you are
way too young be worry your self about such things. Just ride, child.

--
Bill (?) Baka

Quoted message said:

Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Only if you plan to equip it with friction shifting and toe clips.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger, some
: older. I am the only one riding a steel bike in a sea of oversized
aluminum,
: titanium, and carbon fiber. After our last ride we got on to the subject
of
: dream bikes. The usuals came up---Litespeeds, Colnagos, Trek 5900s, etc. I
: mentioned that I would rather ride a custom lugged Waterford, a Richard
: Sachs, or a Rivendell, and they all pegged me with the "retrogrouch"
: moniker. Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
: handcrafted by an artisan?

No, there's something you left out of your story. Besides, what does the
word "grouch" have to do with custom bicycles?

Pat in TX
:
:
:

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger, some
older. I am the only one riding a steel bike
Does it make one a "retrogrouch"

Right or wrong the fact is you will not impress anyone these
days riding steel. I own a real nice custom made Reynolds 653
frame built by Mark Mulholand in Vernon B.C. with my name
on the top tube.

But, just imagine the vibe if I pulled that out of the car at the next
group ride. Therefore it must stay home.

Yep, nobody cares anymore about the skill of torch flowing silver
under lugs.

That's life.

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <7s4vd.474608$Pl.472809@pd7tw1no>,

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Yep, nobody cares anymore about the skill of torch flowing silver
under lugs.

Here's the ride I lust after:
http://www.bikespecialties.com/marinoni/turismodisk.html

Tom, you obviously have no idea just what Turismo really means.

In article <7s4vd.474608$Pl.472809@pd7tw1no>,

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Yep, nobody cares anymore about the skill of torch flowing silver
under lugs.

Here's the ride I lust after:
http://www.bikespecialties.com/marinoni/turismodisk.html

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

I don't know how it rides, but here is my idea of bike [censored]:
http://columbinecycle.com/images/photos/columbine_custom.jpg
[censored] Durbin

Gooserider said:

I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger, some
older. I am the only one riding a steel bike in a sea of oversized aluminum,
titanium, and carbon fiber. After our last ride we got on to the subject of
dream bikes. The usuals came up---Litespeeds, Colnagos, Trek 5900s, etc. I
mentioned that I would rather ride a custom lugged Waterford, a Richard
Sachs, or a Rivendell, and they all pegged me with the "retrogrouch"
moniker. Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Bicycle frames reached the peak of perfection with carefully lugged
Reynold's 531 and equivalent tubing. It was essentially impossible to
improve the product, and so alternative marketing techniques came into
use, which capitalized on psychological factors to create demand --
chief among which is "newer is better." Your preference may be retro,
but it isn't unjustified.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Quoted message said:

I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger, some
older. I am the only one riding a steel bike in a sea of oversized
aluminum,
titanium, and carbon fiber. After our last ride we got on to the subject
of
dream bikes. The usuals came up---Litespeeds, Colnagos, Trek 5900s, etc. I
mentioned that I would rather ride a custom lugged Waterford, a Richard
Sachs, or a Rivendell, and they all pegged me with the "retrogrouch"
moniker. Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Perhaps the "grouch" part comes from your assumption that a Colnago, Trek or
Litespeed isn't handcrafted by an artisan. I know of many people in
Waterloo, WI (home of Trek) that would be mildly offended by the idea that
something that many of them have been doing for 10+ years, with a great
amount of skill and care, qualifies them as nothing more, in some eyes, than
a mindless automaton.

To be fair though, I seriously doubt that most of the Litespeed, Colnago and
Trek owners have a clue as to how much handwork goes into their frames.

The main differences between a Sacs/Rivendell/whatever steel frame and the
others you mentioned is in the material that's used to build them. Steel.
Steel is remarkably easy to work with in a low-tech environment, and
requires minimal investment in tooling (compared to the others). Steel will
always be the favored material for the individual framebuilder, simply
because it is, by far, the most practical for them to work with.

I'm not going to debate the worthiness of any of the materials; obviously,
they all build fine bikes. The only point here is what is essentially a slap
in the face regarding "handcraftsmanship" and what it means to be an
"artisan." That, in my opinion, is entirely unwarranted.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Tom Keats said:

In article <7s4vd.474608$Pl.472809@pd7tw1no>,

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Yep, nobody cares anymore about the skill of torch flowing silver
under lugs.

Here's the ride I lust after:
http://www.bikespecialties.com/marinoni/turismodisk.html

cheers,
Tom

Nice!

They stock my dream city bike:

http://www.bikespecialties.com/marip_customcity.html

And I wish I were a short gal so I could get on of these (check out the
butterflies on the fork crown!)

http://www.bikespecialties.com/marip_petite.html

Quoted message said:

Bicycle frames reached the peak of perfection with carefully lugged
Reynold's 531 and equivalent tubing. It was essentially impossible to
improve the product, and so alternative marketing techniques came into
use, which capitalized on psychological factors to create demand --
chief among which is "newer is better." Your preference may be retro, but
it isn't unjustified.

Bicycle frames may have reached the peak of aethetic perfection with
Reynolds 531 in a beautiful lugged frame (although I'll argue my 1973
Cinelli, built with Columbus, more accurately represents that peak!), but
Reynolds 853 is, I'm convinced, a vastly superior product from a functional
standpoint. We simply do not see crumpled downtubes with 853. We don't see
damaged anything with 853, for that matter, aside from an occasional failure
at a bottle fitting (which wasn't entirely unknown to 531 if somebody didn't
do things right).

I absolutely prefer the appearance of a nicely-done lugged frame, no
question. But from a functional standpoint, they've been left behind. That
doesn't mean that you can't build a nice frame out of 531; rather, you can
build a better frame out of the newer materials (including newer steels) if
strength vs weight is a consideration.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

In article <5I4vd.474648$Pl.160042@pd7tw1no>,

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <7s4vd.474608$Pl.472809@pd7tw1no>,

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Yep, nobody cares anymore about the skill of torch flowing silver
under lugs.

Here's the ride I lust after:
http://www.bikespecialties.com/marinoni/turismodisk.html

Tom, you obviously have no idea just what Turismo really means.

Three chainrings. Gran Turismo (GT) would be three chainrings
and a Brooks saddle.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Bicycle frames reached the peak of perfection with carefully lugged
Reynold's 531 and equivalent tubing. It was essentially impossible to
improve the product, and so alternative marketing techniques came into
use, which capitalized on psychological factors to create demand --
chief among which is "newer is better." Your preference may be retro, but
it isn't unjustified.

Bicycle frames may have reached the peak of aethetic perfection with
Reynolds 531 in a beautiful lugged frame (although I'll argue my 1973
Cinelli, built with Columbus, more accurately represents that peak!), but
Reynolds 853 is, I'm convinced, a vastly superior product from a functional
standpoint. We simply do not see crumpled downtubes with 853. We don't see
damaged anything with 853, for that matter, aside from an occasional failure
at a bottle fitting (which wasn't entirely unknown to 531 if somebody didn't
do things right).

I absolutely prefer the appearance of a nicely-done lugged frame, no
question. But from a functional standpoint, they've been left behind. That
doesn't mean that you can't build a nice frame out of 531; rather, you can
build a better frame out of the newer materials (including newer steels) if
strength vs weight is a consideration.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I didn't mean to slight Columbus or other fine tubing materials, but I
just don't believe that one can do "better," whatever that means, than
my Paramount; and certainly one cannot do "better" for the vast majority
of non-competition riders who support the bicycle industry.

A worthwhile mind experiment when faced with a proposition like this, is
to ask oneself how one would go about conducting an experiment to detect
a difference. In this case, given the variation in individuals and the
fact that one's opinion is influenced by many psychological factors, I
have a hard time formulating an experiment that might actually be
conducted. When I reach this sort of impasse, I think it reasonable to
conclude that any claims of difference are questionable.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

Wear the moniker with pride! :P

I'm a 33 y/o retrogrouch and proud of it!

Age has little to do with it, though I think we're both old enough to have
grown up with the last of the "traditional" bikes during the eighties. 😄

Yep! I always lusted after lugged Italian steel. Bianchi, Masi---but I rode
a lugged Raleigh. One day I'll own something handmade. Lugged steel , toe
clips, and a Brooks!

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I'm not going to debate the worthiness of any of the materials; obviously,
they all build fine bikes. The only point here is what is essentially a slap
in the face regarding "handcraftsmanship" and what it means to be an
"artisan." That, in my opinion, is entirely unwarranted.

Well put and dead on target.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Gooserider said:

I 'm 34, and I ride with a group of guys around my age--some younger, some
older. I am the only one riding a steel bike in a sea of oversized aluminum,
titanium, and carbon fiber. After our last ride we got on to the subject of
dream bikes. The usuals came up---Litespeeds, Colnagos, Trek 5900s, etc. I
mentioned that I would rather ride a custom lugged Waterford, a Richard
Sachs, or a Rivendell, and they all pegged me with the "retrogrouch"
moniker. Does it make one a "retrogrouch" to want to own a bike that's
handcrafted by an artisan?

If your definition of "handcrafted by an artisan" means lugged steel, then
yes. Not that that is necessarily bad, but it is old school. Before you
dismiss other options, you should check them out -- unless, as I suspect,
you _want_ to be a retro-grouch.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

In article <[email hidden]>,

maxo said:

Nice!

They stock my dream city bike:

http://www.bikespecialties.com/marip_customcity.html

Very sharp and useful, without looking too boringly 'sensible'.
I like it, right down to the Mavics.

Quoted message said:

And I wish I were a short gal so I could get on of these (check out the
butterflies on the fork crown!)

http://www.bikespecialties.com/marip_petite.html

Oh, man! The headlight integrated with the fender! Beauty.
I've been looking for something just like that.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca