too much carrot juice

Quoted message said:

1. Will two cups of carrot juice a day be too much for a
person with a = weak immune system (because of chemo
therapy) to handle?

Too much juice of any kind may cause loose stool, extreme
for some people.

One has to find their own optimum amount of juice tolerated.

Quoted message said:

2. How much damage will boiling do to juice?

Boiling or other heating kills the enzymes, which is one of
the biggest reasons one drinks carrot or other fresh juices
- for the live enzymes. Make just enough for one meal for
maximum enzyme benefit, and drink immediately.

Adding a stalk or two of celery to carrot juice is good for
organic sodium. Adding apple makes for a different
delicious treat.

- CBW

"Boiling or other heating kills the enzymes, which is one of
the biggest reasons one drinks carrot or other fresh juices
- for the live enzymes. Make just enough for one meal for
maximum enzyme benefit, and drink immediately. Adding a
stalk or two of celery to carrot juice is good for organic
sodium. Adding apple makes for a different delicious treat."

Do I recall incorrectly that enzymes do not survive
digestion intact, and certainly not live? What makes sodium
organic or not?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do I recall incorrectly that enzymes do not survive
digestion intact,

Your recall is in accord with scientific dogma, but is not
in accord with the evidence. If I recall correctly,
bromelain is in the 50,000-60,000 dalton size range. There
are other examples in the literature, but I recalled the
data on bromelain specifically. In rats, enzymatic activity
of circulating bromelain has been demonstrated. And human
studies have clearly shown physiological effects of oral
bromelain which cannot be explained merely by uptake of
constituent aminos. Another "fact" bites the dust, methinks.

Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):G139-46. Related
Articles, Links

Intestinal absorption of undegraded proteins in men:
presence of bromelain in plasma after oral intake.

Castell JV, Friedrich G, Kuhn CS, Poppe GE.

Unidad de Hepatologia Experimental, Hospital Universitario
La Fe, Valencia, Spain.

The human adult intestinal epithelium has traditionally been
described as nonpermeable to proteins. However, indirect
evidence suggests that reduced absorption of undegraded
proteins might take place under physiological conditions.
Using bromelain (an enzyme obtained from pineapple stems) as
a model protein, we studied the extent of this mucosal
permeation in 19 healthy men. The protein was detected in
plasma by immunoassay and by its proteolytic activity after
oral administration. The estimated plasma half-life was 6-9
h. After oral multidosing (3 g/day), plasma concentration
reached as much as 5,000 pg/ml by 48 h. From the plasma
concentration curve, it could be estimated that an average
of 10.8 micrograms of bromelain was present in plasma in the
3- to 51-h period. The presence of undegraded bromelain in
plasma was shown unequivocally by immunoprecipitation of
plasma samples with antibromelain antibodies, followed by
gel electrophoresis and immunodetection. Moreover, the
enzyme retained its biological activity, at least in part.
Circulating bromelain was found associated with alpha 2-
macroglobulin and alpha 1-antichymotrypain. The results of
this work confirm the existence of a small but significant
intestinal transport of undegraded proteins in healthy men.

Quoted message said:

and certainly not live?

I would take that to suggest "retaining enzymatic activity",
i.e. not denatured. The "raw foodies" may not be the
crackpots some make them out to be.

Lar

(CB Willis) said:

Quoted message said:

1. Will two cups of carrot juice a day be too much for a
person with a = weak immune system (because of chemo
therapy) to handle?

Too much juice of any kind may cause loose stool, extreme
for some people.

One has to find their own optimum amount of juice
tolerated.

Quoted message said:

2. How much damage will boiling do to juice?

Boiling or other heating kills the enzymes, which is one of
the biggest reasons one drinks carrot or other fresh juices
- for the live enzymes. Make just enough for one meal for
maximum enzyme benefit, and drink immediately.

Quoted message said:

Adding a stalk or two of celery to carrot juice is good for
organic sodium. Adding apple makes for a different
delicious treat.

- CBW

What live enzymes are in raw carrot juice? Don't they
get killed in the stomach acid? How could they do a
person any good.

Ora

It could be, I know little about this area. However the info here would
have to be accounted for before coming to some other conclusion:

* "Enzyme Deficiency" (updated 8/31/01)

quackwatch.orgPhonyAOpen ↗
ds/mp.html

"Scientific dogma" suggests some non-science source of info
not being taken into account in the above, what? Science
proceeds on the basis of concensus on the weight of the
preponderance of the evidence, changing when the latter
changes and not because of info yet to be considered so.
What you provide is suggestive but not conclusive to rise to
that level yet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I recall incorrectly that enzymes do not survive
digestion intact,

Your recall is in accord with scientific dogma, but is not
in accord with the evidence. If I recall correctly,
bromelain is in the 50,000-60,000 dalton size range. There
are other examples in the literature, but I recalled the
data on bromelain specifically. In rats, enzymatic activity
of circulating bromelain has been demonstrated. And human
studies have clearly shown physiological effects of oral
bromelain which cannot be explained merely by uptake of
constituent aminos. Another "fact" bites the dust,
methinks.

Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):G139-46. Related
Articles, Links

Intestinal absorption of undegraded proteins in men:
presence of bromelain in plasma after oral intake.

Castell JV, Friedrich G, Kuhn CS, Poppe GE.

Unidad de Hepatologia Experimental, Hospital Universitario
La Fe, Valencia, Spain.

The human adult intestinal epithelium has traditionally
been described as nonpermeable to proteins. However,
indirect evidence suggests that reduced absorption of
undegraded proteins might take place under physiological
conditions. Using bromelain (an enzyme obtained from
pineapple stems) as a model protein, we studied the extent
of this mucosal permeation in 19 healthy men. The protein
was detected in plasma by immunoassay and by its
proteolytic activity after oral administration. The
estimated plasma half-life was 6-9 h. After oral
multidosing (3 g/day), plasma concentration reached as much
as 5,000 pg/ml by 48 h. From the plasma concentration
curve, it could be estimated that an average of 10.8
micrograms of bromelain was present in plasma in the 3- to
51-h period. The presence of undegraded bromelain in plasma
was shown unequivocally by immunoprecipitation of plasma
samples with antibromelain antibodies, followed by gel
electrophoresis and immunodetection. Moreover, the enzyme
retained its biological activity, at least in part.
Circulating bromelain was found associated with alpha 2-
macroglobulin and alpha 1-antichymotrypain. The results of
this work confirm the existence of a small but significant
intestinal transport of undegraded proteins in healthy men.

Quoted message said:

and certainly not live?

I would take that to suggest "retaining enzymatic
activity", i.e. not denatured. The "raw foodies" may not be
the crackpots some make them out to be.

Lar

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It could be, I know little about this area. However the
info here would have to be accounted for before coming to
some other conclusion:

* "Enzyme Deficiency" (updated 8/31/01)

quackwatch.orgPhonyAdOpen ↗
s/mp.html

These are quotes from that Quackwatch page. Apart from the
arrogant style of presentation, I feel they meet the
standard for dogma. Blanket statements are easily
falsified. Consider:

"Enzymes found in food are digested by the stomach and do
not participate in the digestive process." Bromelain is
proteolytic (it is used as a meat tenderizer), and
survives digestion (as shown by the quoted abstract
presented earlier).

"The enzyme content of food has no relevance to health." How
do you prove a negative? Well, here's a positive.

Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2001 Jul;47 Suppl:S10-5.
Related Articles, Links

Oral therapy with proteolytic enzymes decreases excessive
TGF-beta levels in human blood.

Desser L, Holomanova D, Zavadova E, Pavelka K, Mohr T,
Herbacek I.

Institute of Cancer Research, University of Vienna, Austria.
[email hidden]

Therapy with oral proteolytic enzymes (OET) with combination
drug products containing papain, bromelain, trypsin, and
chymotrypsin has been shown to be beneficial in clinical
settings such as radiotherapy-induced fibrosis, bleomycin
pneumotoxicity and immunosuppression in cancer, all of which
are nowadays known to be accompanied by excessive
transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-beta) production. It
has been demonstrated that proteolytic enzymes reduce TGF-
beta levels in serum by converting the protease inhibitor
alpha2 macroglobulin (alpha2M) from the "slow" form into the
"fast" form, whereby the "fast" form binds and inactivates
TGF-beta irreversibly. In this study we have investigated
the effect of OET on the concentration of TGF-beta1 in serum
of patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) (n = 38),
osteomyelofibrosis (OMF) (n = 7) and herpes zoster (HZ) (n =
7). Seventy-eight healthy volunteers served as controls. TGF-
beta1 levels in serum were assessed by enzyme-linked
immunosorbent assay (ELISA). We have demonstrated that in
healthy volunteers and in patients there exists a
correlation between active and latent TGF-beta1 in serum
(r=0.8021; P<0.0001). Treatment with OET had no significant
effect on TGF-beta1 concentration in healthy volunteers or
patients with a normal level of TGF-beta1. In patients with
elevated TGF-beta1 concentration (> 50 ng/ml serum), OET
reduced TGF-beta1 in RA (P < 0.005), in OMF (P < 0.05) and
in HZ (P < 0.05). Conclusion: These results support the
concept that OET is beneficial in diseases characterized in
part by TGF-beta1 overproduction.

"Enzymes in food cannot remedy a lack of cellular enzymes."
Cannot? I hope disproving that isn't necessary. Common sense
is all that is required.

"Except possibly for lactase, there is no evidence that the
enzymes in Nu-Zymes (amylase, protease, lactase, lipase,
cellulase, Lacobacillus acidophilus, and CereCalase (a blend
of phytase, hemicellulase, and beta-glucanase)) will work
within the human body." Well, I guess all those oral enzyme
therapies for steatorrhea, pancreatic insufficiency,
inflammatory bowel disease, and so on, are placebo effects.
Check the PDR for oral enzymes.

Quoted message said:

"Scientific dogma" suggests some non-science source of
info not being taken into account in the above, what?

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, here. Would you
mind rephrasing this?

Quoted message said:

Science proceeds on the basis of concensus on the weight
of the preponderance of the evidence, changing when the
latter changes and not because of info yet to be
considered so.

I have shown that a large enzyme not only survives digestion
(something dogma says cannot happen), it also gets past the
gastro-enteral surface barrier (something dogma says can't
happen either), in healthy adults. Moreover, the enzyme even
remains functional, in the bloodstream.

Quoted message said:

What you provide is suggestive but not conclusive to rise
to that level yet.

I don't intend to flood you with data. It took me a while to
ponder the significance of this sort of finding. New
discoveries often require re-examination of dogma (from the
Greek word dogma, "that which one thinks true"😉.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I recall incorrectly that enzymes do not survive
digestion intact,

Your recall is in accord with scientific dogma, but is
not in accord with the evidence.

Lar

I suggest you take up your examples from which you infeer
that they do survive with the author of the page. Using
"dogma" does not serve as a discussion stopper, it only
muddis the water. I would not be shocked or surprised or
dismayed if some day the view you hold becomes a part of
some new concensus saying that some survive digestion,
that's how science works. In the meantime having what are
thought to be counter examples do not by having them
displace the current concensus. There is no field of study,
including science, which is not full of such prospective
concensus changers; that is after all the stuff on which
disertations are made and reputations made in the academy.
Without knowledge on my part, I see these problems with a
view to change the current concensus, which the page fairly
represents.

Enzymes are produced in the body and no external source is
required, except in cases of genetic disorders.
Distinguishing the source in blood etc. is a problem. With
vit d for example, taking x amount of it leads to y rise in
blood with some half life. Can this be illustrated with
enzymess? Another approach might to use a radioactive marker
to distinguish outside from inside sources. Even when an
enzymes is taken how can it be determined that the products
of their digestion aren't premoting and/or being the
building blocks of the internal production? Or in the case
where taking some leads to some marker of disease process or
not, that it is the products of the digestion of the enzymes
that is involved?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It could be, I know little about this area. However the
info here would have to be accounted for before coming to
some other conclusion:

* "Enzyme Deficiency" (updated 8/31/01)

quackwatch.orgPhonyAOpen ↗
ds/mp.html

These are quotes from that Quackwatch page. Apart from the
arrogant style of presentation, I feel they meet the
standard for dogma. Blanket statements are easily
falsified. Consider:

"Enzymes found in food are digested by the stomach and do
not participate in the digestive process." Bromelain is
proteolytic (it is used as a meat tenderizer), and survives
digestion (as shown by the quoted abstract presented
earlier).

"The enzyme content of food has no relevance to health."
How do you prove a negative? Well, here's a positive.

Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2001 Jul;47 Suppl:S10-5.
Related Articles, Links

Oral therapy with proteolytic enzymes decreases excessive
TGF-beta levels in human blood.

Desser L, Holomanova D, Zavadova E, Pavelka K, Mohr T,
Herbacek I.

Institute of Cancer Research, University of Vienna,
Austria. [email hidden]

Therapy with oral proteolytic enzymes (OET) with
combination drug products containing papain, bromelain,
trypsin, and chymotrypsin has been shown to be beneficial
in clinical settings such as radiotherapy-induced fibrosis,
bleomycin pneumotoxicity and immunosuppression in cancer,
all of which are nowadays known to be accompanied by
excessive transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-beta)
production. It has been demonstrated that proteolytic
enzymes reduce TGF-beta levels in serum by converting the
protease inhibitor alpha2 macroglobulin (alpha2M) from the
"slow" form into the "fast" form, whereby the "fast" form
binds and inactivates TGF-beta irreversibly. In this study
we have investigated the effect of OET on the concentration
of TGF-beta1 in serum of patients with rheumatoid arthritis
(RA) (n = 38), osteomyelofibrosis (OMF) (n = 7) and herpes
zoster (HZ) (n = 7). Seventy-eight healthy volunteers
served as controls. TGF-beta1 levels in serum were assessed
by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA). We have
demonstrated that in healthy volunteers and in patients
there exists a correlation between active and latent TGF-
beta1 in serum (r=0.8021; P<0.0001). Treatment with OET had
no significant effect on TGF-beta1 concentration in healthy
volunteers or patients with a normal level of TGF-beta1. In
patients with elevated TGF-beta1 concentration (> 50 ng/ml
serum), OET reduced TGF-beta1 in RA (P < 0.005), in OMF (P
< 0.05) and in HZ (P < 0.05). Conclusion: These results
support the concept that OET is beneficial in diseases
characterized in part by TGF-beta1 overproduction.

"Enzymes in food cannot remedy a lack of cellular enzymes."
Cannot? I hope disproving that isn't necessary. Common
sense is all that is required.

"Except possibly for lactase, there is no evidence that the
enzymes in Nu-Zymes (amylase, protease, lactase, lipase,
cellulase, Lacobacillus acidophilus, and CereCalase (a
blend of phytase, hemicellulase, and beta-glucanase)) will
work within the human body." Well, I guess all those oral
enzyme therapies for steatorrhea, pancreatic insufficiency,
inflammatory bowel disease, and so on, are placebo effects.
Check the PDR for oral enzymes.

Quoted message said:

"Scientific dogma" suggests some non-science source of
info not being taken into account in the above, what?

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, here. Would you
mind rephrasing this?

Quoted message said:

Science proceeds on the basis of concensus on the weight
of the preponderance of the evidence, changing when the
latter changes and not because of info yet to be
considered so.

I have shown that a large enzyme not only survives
digestion (something dogma says cannot happen), it also
gets past the gastro-enteral surface barrier (something
dogma says can't happen either), in healthy adults.
Moreover, the enzyme even remains functional, in the
bloodstream.

Quoted message said:

What you provide is suggestive but not conclusive to rise
to that level yet.

I don't intend to flood you with data. It took me a while
to ponder the significance of this sort of finding. New
discoveries often require re-examination of dogma (from the
Greek word dogma, "that which one thinks true"😉.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do I recall incorrectly that enzymes do not survive
> digestion intact,

Your recall is in accord with scientific dogma, but is
not in accord with the evidence.

Lar