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"Too bad"

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Road Cycling
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15 July 2005
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18 July 2005
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B. Lafferty
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  1. From AFP

    Race speed and Frigo arrest prompt questions

    The arrest of Fassa Bortolo rider Dario Frigo on the Tour de France has
    added to an air of suspicion from some riders who feel the race is not being
    contended on an even playing field.The controversy over possible doping on
    the Tour is not new, and on Wednesday the problem hit the organisers square
    in the face when Frigo was charged along with his wife Susanna on suspicion
    on the possession, use and importation of banned substances.Frigo's wife was
    stopped on Tuesday with what was understood to be about 10 doses of
    endurance-boosting hormone EPO (erythropoietin).

    They were eventually released on bail with Frigo, 31, banned from taking
    part in the sport while the inquiry is carried out.It was the second drugs
    controversy on the Tour following the exclusion of Russian Yevgeny Petrov
    after a test on the Lampre rider's blood sample showed his red blood cell
    count to be over the permitted level.Although not proof, it suggests that
    blood manipulation through EPO use or other means has been used and he was
    thrown off the race.

    In comparison to the 1998 drugs scandal which almost brought the Tour to its
    knees and led to the exclusion of the whole Festina team, the controversy
    has done little damage.However some French riders - who are among those to
    have been left behind on the tough Alpine mountain passes - have suggested
    it is not all fair play.

    French veteran Didier Rous has in the past admitted to using banned
    substances when he was with Festina.

    Years later, he said he is saddened by the mediocre displays of his team -
    after last year when teammate Thomas Voeckler stole the limelight by wearing
    the yellow jersey for half of the race.Rous admitted that he is becoming a
    part-time counsellor to help the "discouraged" young riders in his
    all-French team who are being blown away daily."There has to come a time
    when you say, 'right that's enough'," said Rous, a former national champion
    who raced with the Festina team when they were thrown off the Tour in
    1998."One minute we're able to keep up with the best, then all of a sudden
    we're not."I finished 11th overall on the Tour in 2001 after I finished
    fourth in the time trial. In 2003 I ended up finishing 20th overall, and
    that year I was winning quite a few races."Then all of a sudden, I'm being
    left behind. Yet, I'm training as hard as I ever have and I take my job
    seriously.

    "I can't hold my hands up and say what's going on at other teams. I've got
    no proof," added Rous, who has recognised in the past that he has erred when
    it came to banned substances.

    "All I'm saying is that in 1995 I went through all the things our young
    riders are going through now. People used to tell me that I didn't have the
    right character, I didn't train enough or whatever.

    "But I'm no more stupid than the next guy. I love this job, and I've always
    given everything I can to succeed in it."

    On Thursday's stage, the last day in the Alps and on France's national
    holiday of Bastille Day, it seemed pertinent that it was Frenchman David
    Moncoutie who won the stage.

    After Rous's comments it was even more so - as Moncoutie is considered the
    epitomy of the clean, professional cyclist in France.He is too scared to
    take an everday medicine like aspirin, but Moncoutie, like the rest of the
    peloton, admits he is finding it hard to keep up with the level of riding on
    the race.

    "I don't have any proof, and it's a subject that is quite delicate to talk
    about. I don't really want to start a debate," said Moncoutie when asked how
    he felt to be racing alongside the likes of Frigo.

    "All I can say is that we're racing really fast, and that all the French
    riders are finding it hard to keep up. Take that whatever way you want.

    "But in general we're feeling pretty discouraged," added Moncoutie who made
    a comparison to his performance here and on June's Dauphine Libere stage
    race.

    "At the Dauphine Libere I had no problems in following the best climbers. At
    the Tour, I just can't.

    "It's like that every year, but all I can say is 'too bad'."

  2. B. Lafferty a écrit :

    Quoted message said:

    From AFP

    In comparison to the 1998 drugs scandal which almost brought the Tour to its
    knees and led to the exclusion of the whole Festina team, the controversy
    has done little damage.However some French riders - who are among those to
    have been left behind on the tough Alpine mountain passes - have suggested
    it is not all fair play.

    This is the key point. The French pretty much uniformly accused the
    British of lack of fair play in the competition for the 2012 Olympic
    Games. Again and again, I would hear the French squad saying that they
    did their best and could not believe that they failed. Basically, it
    shows that the French are unable to accept that their best is not the
    best.

    -ilan

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    B. Lafferty a écrit :

    Quoted message said:

    From AFP

    In comparison to the 1998 drugs scandal which almost brought the Tour to
    its
    knees and led to the exclusion of the whole Festina team, the controversy
    has done little damage.However some French riders - who are among those to
    have been left behind on the tough Alpine mountain passes - have suggested
    it is not all fair play.

    <<This is the key point. The French pretty much uniformly accused the
    British of lack of fair play in the competition for the 2012 Olympic
    Games. Again and again, I would hear the French squad saying that they
    did their best and could not believe that they failed. Basically, it
    shows that the French are unable to accept that their best is not the
    best.>>

    I don't think it's a national thing. One can go only so far pointing at a
    flag and say: "that's why!" I don't think french cyclism is fundamentally
    lacking, although there are few big talents at the moment. At the same time,
    when I look at the way this tour is ridden, I do see some grounds for
    suspecting that there is still a large-scale doping problem. And I wouldn't
    be surprised if Bouygues is one of the teams that's 'out of it' .

  4. C'mon folks get real. France is a socialist state. You're punished if you
    succeed (taxes), and rewarded if you fail (welfare). These thoughts are
    woven through out the French mind and character. You can't separate the
    French cyclist from his soul. The French are always suspicious of the
    successful, and love the ones who tried and failed. It's in their soul, and
    no one can change it.

  5. Every year the racing gets faster and every year [censored] like out
    legal beagle tell us that it's because of drugs. Man those drugs just
    keep getting better and better. Is this a STRONGER form of EPO that
    somehow makes your 50% hematocrit limit invisible? Or maybe hGH has
    changed in the last couple of years? Or maybe it's those steroids that
    Brian tells us are impossible to detect.

    Cause it CERTAINLY couldn't be that bicycles are now 3 kilos lighter,
    training regimes a hell of a lot more scientific, aerodynamics better
    known and nutrician greatly improved.

  6. "I don't think it's a national thing."

    Did you hear Americans complaining that the reason there'd never been
    an American Tour winner was because of the drugs in the sport? Or did
    they just buckle down and keep improving until they started winning?

    I haven't heard the Dutch telling everyone that they haven't had a Tour
    winner because of cheating by everyone else.

    Nor the Swiss (though admittedly they appear to be taking the "if you
    can't beat 'em, join 'em tactic.)

  7. "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "I don't think it's a national thing."

    Did you hear Americans complaining that the reason there'd never been
    an American Tour winner was because of the drugs in the sport? Or did
    they just buckle down and keep improving until they started winning?

    I haven't heard the Dutch telling everyone that they haven't had a Tour
    winner because of cheating by everyone else.

    The general thought here is that the winners of the tour use dope.

    Quoted message said:


    Nor the Swiss (though admittedly they appear to be taking the "if you
    can't beat 'em, join 'em tactic.)

  8. Well, the French accuse others of doping when they don't do well
    and don't say anything when they are doing well. Apart from cycling,
    I can cite how well Mary Pierce has been adopted as national hero,
    despite her continued admitted use of growth hormones. However, it
    is true that L'Equipe is more even handed than other media sources.

    -ilan

    Tom Kunich a écrit :

    Quoted message said:

    "I don't think it's a national thing."

    Did you hear Americans complaining that the reason there'd never been
    an American Tour winner was because of the drugs in the sport? Or did
    they just buckle down and keep improving until they started winning?

    I haven't heard the Dutch telling everyone that they haven't had a Tour
    winner because of cheating by everyone else.

    Nor the Swiss (though admittedly they appear to be taking the "if you
    can't beat 'em, join 'em tactic.)

  9. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <<Well, the French accuse others of doping when they don't do well
    and don't say anything when they are doing well.>>

    That's not my experience. Whenever I've talked to a french person about
    cycling, (s)he almost always says that they 'all' use dope. Some don't care
    and enjoy it anyway, others shake their heads and complain that it starts
    when the riders are very young. If the prevailing attitude is that doping is
    something which is done by foreigners, then it has been a major coincidence
    I have not encountered that attitude.

    <<Apart from cycling, I can cite how well Mary Pierce has been adopted as
    national hero,
    despite her continued admitted use of growth hormones. However, it
    is true that L'Equipe is more even handed than other media sources.

    -ilan>>

    What exactly are you talking about, ' media sources' or 'the French'? It
    looks like you're using these terms as if they mean the same. My country has
    recently (in 2002, to be precise) learned that this is not the case.

    Jonathan.

  10. Tom Kunich said:

    Every year the racing gets faster and every year [censored] like out
    legal beagle tell us that it's because of drugs. Man those drugs just
    keep getting better and better. Is this a STRONGER form of EPO that
    somehow makes your 50% hematocrit limit invisible? Or maybe hGH has
    changed in the last couple of years? Or maybe it's those steroids that
    Brian tells us are impossible to detect.

    Cause it CERTAINLY couldn't be that bicycles are now 3 kilos lighter,
    training regimes a hell of a lot more scientific, aerodynamics better
    known and nutrician greatly improved.

    Look how bad Frigo sucked so far this tour...even EPO isn't good enough
    to keep up nowadays!!

  11. Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    What exactly are you talking about, ' media sources' or 'the French'? It
    looks like you're using these terms as if they mean the same. My country has
    recently (in 2002, to be precise) learned that this is not the case.

    OK, I compare L'Equipe with French national TV (France 2, 3) where
    there
    are directives to root for French athletes.

    -ilan

  12. Callistus Valerius a écrit :

    Quoted message said:

    C'mon folks get real. France is a socialist state. You're punished if you
    succeed (taxes), and rewarded if you fail (welfare).

    Thanks, I am continually impressed by the success of the French
    welfare state, in my opinion it's the best thing in France, along
    with the Tour. I am not being facetious.

    -ilan

  13. <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Callistus Valerius a écrit :

    Quoted message said:

    C'mon folks get real. France is a socialist state. You're punished if
    you
    succeed (taxes), and rewarded if you fail (welfare).

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I am continually impressed by the success of the French
    welfare state, in my opinion it's the best thing in France, along
    with the Tour. I am not being facetious.

    -ilan

    Agreed.

  14. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From AFP

    Quoted message said:

    "All I can say is that we're racing really fast, and that all the French
    riders are finding it hard to keep up. Take that whatever way you want.

    How about, because they suck.

  15. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    What exactly are you talking about, ' media sources' or 'the French'? It
    looks like you're using these terms as if they mean the same. My country
    has
    recently (in 2002, to be precise) learned that this is not the case.

    <<OK, I compare L'Equipe with French national TV (France 2, 3) where
    there
    are directives to root for French athletes.

    -ilan>>

    So you're complaining that national TV is partial to national athletes? Then
    you're actually part of an international club. The Belgians have it even
    worse - once a foreign rider wins, the TV commentators do their best to
    prove that he's actually Belgian (Like Ivanov, McEwen, Sentjens, and all
    Dutch riders who live in Belgium for, er.... *various* reasons).

  16. Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    That's not my experience. Whenever I've talked to a french person about
    cycling, (s)he almost always says that they 'all' use dope. Some don't care
    and enjoy it anyway, others shake their heads and complain that it starts
    when the riders are very young. If the prevailing attitude is that dopingis
    something which is done by foreigners, then it has been a major coincidence
    I have not encountered that attitude.

    I am referring to the frenzied Virenque supporters of recent years.
    It is difficult to speak to them, because they only have rudimentary
    language abilities. There are a lot of them, because presidential
    hopeful Nicolas Sarkozy is reaching out to them, as he recently went
    for a
    much publicised bike ride with Virenque.

    -ilan

  17. Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's not my experience. Whenever I've talked to a french person about
    cycling, (s)he almost always says that they 'all' use dope. Some don't care
    and enjoy it anyway, others shake their heads and complain that it starts
    when the riders are very young. If the prevailing attitude is that doping is
    something which is done by foreigners, then it has been a major coincidence
    I have not encountered that attitude.


    ilanpi said:

    I am referring to the frenzied Virenque supporters of recent years.
    It is difficult to speak to them, because they only have rudimentary
    language abilities. There are a lot of them, because presidential
    hopeful Nicolas Sarkozy is reaching out to them, as he recently went
    for a much publicised bike ride with Virenque.

    So in the unlikely event of cycling supporters becoming an important group
    in the US, Bush may go for a ride with LANCE. That might provide a test
    for the giro helmet.

  18. Jonathan v.d. Sluis a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    So you're complaining that national TV is partial to national athletes? Then
    you're actually part of an international club. The Belgians have it even
    worse - once a foreign rider wins, the TV commentators do their best to
    prove that he's actually Belgian (Like Ivanov, McEwen, Sentjens, and all
    Dutch riders who live in Belgium for, er.... *various* reasons).

    And sometimes, they even go as far as to make them Belgian citizens,
    like Andre Tchmil or Mohammed Mourhit (or was his revoked).

    -ilan

  19. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said...

    Quoted message said:

    So you're complaining that national TV is partial to national athletes? Then
    you're actually part of an international club. The Belgians have it even
    worse - once a foreign rider wins, the TV commentators do their best to
    prove that he's actually Belgian (Like Ivanov, McEwen, Sentjens, and all
    Dutch riders who live in Belgium for, er.... *various* reasons).

    British TV is just as bad. They claim McEwen too, because he has a
    British passport, and Dario Cioni can't appear on screen for more than
    one second without someone telling us he was born in Reading, and
    Magnus Backstedt is ours too because he married a Welsh woman.

    At least Belgium actually has some good riders though, unlike Britain.

    --
    Andrew
    http://www.cageofmonkeys.co.uk

  20. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:


    So you're complaining that national TV is partial to national athletes? Then
    you're actually part of an international club. The Belgians have it even
    worse - once a foreign rider wins, the TV commentators do their best to
    prove that he's actually Belgian (Like Ivanov, McEwen, Sentjens, and all
    Dutch riders who live in Belgium for, er.... *various* reasons).

    good beer?

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