Tommy D?

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Ask Rabobank and T-Mo, they'll have an answer by now.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Ask Rabobank and T-Mo, they'll have an answer by now.

Ron

Good point. I wonder how those guys (the directors) get/keep their
jobs.

Fred

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Fred

Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his
own teammates before team management decides they've selected the
wrong "leader"?

Ask Rabobank and T-Mo, they'll have an answer by now.

Good point. I wonder how those guys (the directors) get/keep their
jobs.

Own the team.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Fred

Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.

dumbasses,

it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.

just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
weeks.

if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Fred

Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.

dumbasses,

it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.

just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
weeks.

if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.

I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
able to keep up with his helpers.

Fred

On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
> "leader"?
>
> Fred

Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.

dumbasses,

it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.

just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
weeks.

if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.

I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
able to keep up with his helpers.

Fred

You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........

ST said:

On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
>> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
>> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
>> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
>> "leader"?
>>
>> Fred
>
> Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
> actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
> case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
> foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.

dumbasses,

it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.

just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
weeks.

if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.

I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
able to keep up with his helpers.

Fred

You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........

Okay, Dung Muncher... explain how anything in this thread is about
Lance?

Fred

On 8/31/06 2:35 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

ST said:

On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
>>> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
>>> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
>>> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
>>> "leader"?
>>>
>>> Fred
>>
>> Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
>> actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
>> case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
>> foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.
>
> dumbasses,
>
> it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.
>
> just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
> a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
> with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
> could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
> weeks.
>
> if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
> vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.

I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
able to keep up with his helpers.

Fred

You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........

Okay, Dung Muncher... explain how anything in this thread is about
Lance?

Fred

Fred Dumbass,

Just because someone does NOT totally dominate EVERY stage does NOT mean
they will not finish well or win.......

ST said:

On 8/31/06 2:35 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

ST said:

On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
[email hidden],
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
>>>> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
>>>> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
>>>> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
>>>> "leader"?
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>
>>> Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
>>> actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
>>> case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
>>> foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.
>>
>> dumbasses,
>>
>> it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.
>>
>> just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
>> a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
>> with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
>> could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
>> weeks.
>>
>> if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
>> vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.
>
> I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
> merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
> able to keep up with his helpers.
>
> Fred
>
You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........

Okay, Dung Muncher... explain how anything in this thread is about
Lance?

Fred

Fred Dumbass,

Just because someone does NOT totally dominate EVERY stage does NOT mean
they will not finish well or win.......

Geeez, you must be some kind of major league idiot. No one is talking
about dominating the stage. It's helpful to at LEAST be able to keep
up with your own teammates.

You could say that perhaps on this ONE stage that skinny little f..k
was given the green light to go ahead as Danielson wasn't feeling all
that well, and that's why it looks like he can't keep up with his
helpers. BUT, he's been left behind by his teammates on every climbing
stage he's ever done, except for Brasstown Bald.

So, how again is it that I'm Lance-afied? Oh, yeah, that's right... you
don't know what you're talking about.

Fred

On 8/31/06 6:09 PM, in article
[email hidden], "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

ST said:

On 8/31/06 2:35 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

ST wrote:
> On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
> [email hidden],
> "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>>> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
>>>>> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
>>>>> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
>>>>> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
>>>>> "leader"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
>>>> actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
>>>> case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
>>>> foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.
>>>
>>> dumbasses,
>>>
>>> it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.
>>>
>>> just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
>>> a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
>>> with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
>>> could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
>>> weeks.
>>>
>>> if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
>>> vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
>> merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
>> able to keep up with his helpers.
>>
>> Fred
>>
> You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........

Okay, Dung Muncher... explain how anything in this thread is about
Lance?

Fred

Fred Dumbass,

Just because someone does NOT totally dominate EVERY stage does NOT mean
they will not finish well or win.......

Geeez, you must be some kind of major league idiot. No one is talking
about dominating the stage. It's helpful to at LEAST be able to keep
up with your own teammates.

You could say that perhaps on this ONE stage that skinny little f..k
was given the green light to go ahead as Danielson wasn't feeling all
that well, and that's why it looks like he can't keep up with his
helpers. BUT, he's been left behind by his teammates on every climbing
stage he's ever done, except for Brasstown Bald.

So, how again is it that I'm Lance-afied? Oh, yeah, that's right... you
don't know what you're talking about.

Fred

Lets explain in another way...........

1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider. (TD)
2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN champion!!

They do not give a [censored] about your vast expertise......

ST said:

Lets explain in another way...........

1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider. (TD)
2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN champion!!

Dumbass -

You're an idiot. Discovery Channel sponsors the team to market to the
European market which they are trying to penetrate. Euros watch bike
racing. Americans only do it 3 weeks out of the year. If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

On 8/31/06 7:03 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

ST said:

Lets explain in another way...........

1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider. (TD)
2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN champion!!

Dumbass -

Dumbest Ass......

Quoted message said:

You're an idiot.

not

Quoted message said:

Discovery Channel sponsors the team to market to the
European market which they are trying to penetrate.

I will agree..

Quoted message said:

Euros watch bike
racing. Americans only do it 3 weeks out of the year.

I agree, to a point.. That SURELY does not include many people (including
us..)

Quoted message said:

If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

Not.. Wrong target market. Lets see....... Just look at the history of
groomed riders for USPS/Discovery. I see MANY top American riders put into
the leadership position. They even bought Levi back for next year! Go ahead,
you will come back with a yuppie counter argument. Mine is a strong opinion
that is strongly grounded in looking at the track record and even look at
their decision for the Vuelta right now.

It should be pretty obvious.. But you will disagree with whatever I say.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

in message said:

On 8/31/06 7:03 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan

Gringioni said:

ST said:

Lets explain in another way...........

1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider.
(TD)
2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN
champion!!

Quoted message said:

If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

Not.. Wrong target market. Lets see....... Just look at the history of
groomed riders for USPS/Discovery. I see MANY top American riders put
into the leadership position. They even bought Levi back for next year!
Go ahead, you will come back with a yuppie counter argument. Mine is a
strong opinion that is strongly grounded in looking at the track record
and even look at their decision for the Vuelta right now.

I agree that Disco are looking for another good, clean, all American
star, but it isn't happening, is it?

Headstrong: H'mmmm...
Hamilton: Doped
Landis: Doped
Leipheimer: Won nothing
Hincapie: Won nothing

And, of course, there are those other former US Postal stars:

Heras: Doped

And the founder of the team:

Borysewicz: Blood-doping specialist

H'mmmmm...

Of course, it's only Europeans who cheat.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

And they say the Brits only understand Cricket and Rounders...
Best,
Bill Black

Simon Brooke said:

in message said:

On 8/31/06 7:03 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan

Gringioni said:

ST wrote:
>
>
> Lets explain in another way...........
>
> 1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider.
> (TD)
> 2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
> 3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
> 4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN
> champion!!

Quoted message said:

If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

Not.. Wrong target market. Lets see....... Just look at the history of
groomed riders for USPS/Discovery. I see MANY top American riders put
into the leadership position. They even bought Levi back for next year!
Go ahead, you will come back with a yuppie counter argument. Mine is a
strong opinion that is strongly grounded in looking at the track record
and even look at their decision for the Vuelta right now.

I agree that Disco are looking for another good, clean, all American
star, but it isn't happening, is it?

Headstrong: H'mmmm...
Hamilton: Doped
Landis: Doped
Leipheimer: Won nothing
Hincapie: Won nothing

And, of course, there are those other former US Postal stars:

Heras: Doped

And the founder of the team:

Borysewicz: Blood-doping specialist

H'mmmmm...

Of course, it's only Europeans who cheat.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
"leader"?

Maybe this is heresy, but does TD really deserve the "super climber"
label? In Euro races that don't include Jittery Joe's (thanks Bob
Schwartz for pointing this out), he invariably gets dropped on the
steep pitches of the big finishing climbs.

Dear Great White Dumbass,

My expertise not withstanding, got any comments on the performance of
the great white hope (aka Tommy D) today and how this fits into the
Discovery team's plans for the future?

Fred

ST said:

On 8/31/06 6:09 PM, in article
[email hidden], "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

ST said:

On 8/31/06 2:35 PM, in article
[email hidden],
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>
> ST wrote:
>> On 8/30/06 2:38 PM, in article
>> [email hidden],
>> "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>>>>> Is it just me, or do others think it might be helpful for a team's
>>>>>> designated GC hopeful to keep up with his teammate's when they're
>>>>>> pacing him up a climb? How many times can a guy get dropped by his own
>>>>>> teammates before team management decides they've selected the wrong
>>>>>> "leader"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly why I think it is silly to select a "leader" in advance of the
>>>>> actual race. Perhaps they can designate that he gets a full bike in
>>>>> case of crash or puncture, but to sit up and wait on the climbs is
>>>>> foolhardy. At least Lance could follow any pace that Floyd might set.
>>>>
>>>> dumbasses,
>>>>
>>>> it was only one climb, and in the first week of the race.
>>>>
>>>> just because brajkovic was better today doesn't automatically make him
>>>> a better candidate for team leader. i'm not saying this is the case
>>>> with danielson and brajkovic, but arguably there are lots of riders who
>>>> could do well in this scenario but won't be in contention after three
>>>> weeks.
>>>>
>>>> if you use that reasoning, it's fait accompli and di luca will win the
>>>> vuelta, and i don't think that will happen.
>>>
>>> I'm not suggesting that Brajkovic should be the team leader. I was
>>> merely commenting on the established pattern of Danielson NOT being
>>> able to keep up with his helpers.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>> You dumbasses have become LANCEafied.........
>
> Okay, Dung Muncher... explain how anything in this thread is about
> Lance?
>
> Fred
>

Fred Dumbass,

Just because someone does NOT totally dominate EVERY stage does NOT mean
they will not finish well or win.......

Geeez, you must be some kind of major league idiot. No one is talking
about dominating the stage. It's helpful to at LEAST be able to keep
up with your own teammates.

You could say that perhaps on this ONE stage that skinny little f..k
was given the green light to go ahead as Danielson wasn't feeling all
that well, and that's why it looks like he can't keep up with his
helpers. BUT, he's been left behind by his teammates on every climbing
stage he's ever done, except for Brasstown Bald.

So, how again is it that I'm Lance-afied? Oh, yeah, that's right... you
don't know what you're talking about.

Fred

Lets explain in another way...........

1. They are trying to groom a young, prospective (grand tour) rider. (TD)
2. They are an AMERICAN DIV1 team
3. It is sponsored by, primarily, AMERICAN companies.
4. To continue its direction they want to have another AMERICAN champion!!

They do not give a [censored] about your vast expertise......

ST said:

Quoted message said:

If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

Not.. Wrong target market. Lets see....... Just look at the history of
groomed riders for USPS/Discovery. I see MANY top American riders put into
the leadership position. They even bought Levi back for next year! Go ahead,
you will come back with a yuppie counter argument. Mine is a strong opinion
that is strongly grounded in looking at the track record and even look at
their decision for the Vuelta right now.

It should be pretty obvious.. But you will disagree with whatever I say.

Dumbass -

In the Giro Savoldelli was the leader. Danielson rode support.

In the TdF, Hincapie was not a "team leader". Discovery didn't ride in
support of any one person. Moreover, Hincapie was the lone American on
the TdF team, the rest were Europeans. Spain had 3 riders (Rubiera,
Noval, Martinez) on the TdF squad.

So: you've got your head up your ass. The facts do not support your
position.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

On 9/1/06 8:40 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

ST said:

Quoted message said:

If Discovery
wanted to go after the red blooded American, they'd sponsor a NASCAR
team instead.

Not.. Wrong target market. Lets see....... Just look at the history of
groomed riders for USPS/Discovery. I see MANY top American riders put into
the leadership position. They even bought Levi back for next year! Go ahead,
you will come back with a yuppie counter argument. Mine is a strong opinion
that is strongly grounded in looking at the track record and even look at
their decision for the Vuelta right now.

It should be pretty obvious.. But you will disagree with whatever I say.

Dumbass -

In the Giro Savoldelli was the leader. Danielson rode support.

In the TdF, Hincapie was not a "team leader". Discovery didn't ride in
support of any one person. Moreover, Hincapie was the lone American on
the TdF team, the rest were Europeans. Spain had 3 riders (Rubiera,
Noval, Martinez) on the TdF squad.

So: you've got your head up your ass. The facts do not support your
position.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[censored]........
That has been there philosophy. Many others will agree. You want to take a
few scenarios and just argue your point. If you would just accept your
sexuality maybe you will not be so offensive anymore.......