Todays Ride (OT)

"MSeries" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Today I have been mostly riding chairlifts. I am in Colorado you see and
managed to get the weekend off to go skiing. Great snowfall on Thursday,
blue sky and sunshine today. Superb. I was surprised to see many people
wearing helmets though. Why ? Ten years ago when I last skiied in Vail
hardly anyone used a helmet, has their skiing become more dangerous in
that time ? Mine hasn't. Tomorrow I might ski at Winter Park or
Breckenridge. I might take a look at Oh my gawd highway again too.

Helmets started to get popular after a rash of skiing fatalities a few years
back. They're also popular with the half pipe crowd, where there just might
be some justification for the silly things.

In common with cycling:

1.There are plenty of ways to seriously injure/kill yourself while skiing
that a helmet won't prevent (a few years back a helmeted skier slammed into
a tree at Copper Mountain, dying of a ruptured aorta).

2. They just might give the wearer a false sense of security (as in the
aforementioned fatality).

3. There are circumstances where they are potentially useful (racing, half
pipe, small children on crowded slopes), but they have acquired the status
of Vitally Important Equipment by people looking for a solution to imaginary
dangers.

4. The primary benefit seems to be to the people who sell the things.

My favorite sight is the helmeted ski instructor teaching a class of
non-helmeted never-evers on a secluded beginners slope.

If you go to Breckenridge, definitely try to ski the Peak 8 area.
--
mark

MSeries said:

Today I have been mostly riding chairlifts. I am in Colorado you see and
managed to get the weekend off to go skiing. Great snowfall on Thursday,
blue sky and sunshine today. Superb. I was surprised to see many people
wearing helmets though. Why ? Ten years ago when I last skiied in Vail
hardly anyone used a helmet, has their skiing become more dangerous in
that time ? Mine hasn't. Tomorrow I might ski at Winter Park or
Breckenridge. I might take a look at Oh my gawd highway again too.

I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense for
skiing than cycling.

1) Your head getting too hot is unlikely to be a problem. A helmet is
going to provide a nice, padded, windproof cover, which you want anyway
when it's cold.

2) For snowboarding, where catching an edge is much more likely to
result in you banging your head. It certainly seemed that way when I
had a lesson in Colorado earlier this year. I

Apart from the above, I see no need at all. However, I also see fewer
downsides that for cycling, such as - there are no cars on the slopes.
Only stationary trees which I've mostly managed to avoid over the
years by aiming for the white bit, rather than the green bit.

Pete

Ningi said:

I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense for
skiing than cycling.

They are also hard shell close fitting helmets that cover most of the
head, not flimsy bits of polystyrene perched on top.

CPSC report that there are 16,000 skiing head injuries a year in the USA
due to hitting trees, rocks, hard packed snow and other people. What I
don't know is whether the quality of the research behind using them is
any better or worse than for bicycle helmets because I've not researched it.

At least one of the medical researchers in the area seems to have some
appreciation of the issues we discuss here though

"Ski and snowboard as if you weren’t wearing a helmet. All skiers and
boarders should ride responsibly and in control at all times. Helmets
may help prevent head injuries in the event of certain types of
accidents, but are of little help in high-speed, head-on injuries and
offer no protection against neck and other types of injuries."

Tony

mark wrote:
:

Quoted message said:

1.There are plenty of ways to seriously injure/kill yourself while skiing
that a helmet won't prevent (a few years back a helmeted skier slammed into
a tree at Copper Mountain, dying of a ruptured aorta).

..

snip, snip

Quoted message said:

If you go to Breckenridge, definitely try to ski the Peak 8 area.

Went to Copper Mountain today, its one of the easiest big resorts to get
to from Aurora, I did ski at Breckridge last time I skiied in Co. which
was 1994, I can't remember much about it though.

Tony Raven said:

Ningi said:

I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense
for skiing than cycling.

They are also hard shell close fitting helmets that cover most of the
head, not flimsy bits of polystyrene perched on top.

CPSC report that there are 16,000 skiing head injuries a year in the USA
due to hitting trees, rocks, hard packed snow and other people. What I
don't know is whether the quality of the research behind using them is
any better or worse than for bicycle helmets because I've not researched
it.

At least one of the medical researchers in the area seems to have some
appreciation of the issues we discuss here though

"Ski and snowboard as if you weren’t wearing a helmet. All skiers and
boarders should ride responsibly and in control at all times. Helmets
may help prevent head injuries in the event of certain types of
accidents, but are of little help in high-speed, head-on injuries and
offer no protection against neck and other types of injuries."

Tony

I have fallen whilst on skis and snowboards and so far not had any
serious injuries, always finished the run and skiied for the rest of the
day.

If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would [censored] themselves
if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
danger ?

Where will it all end ?

"MSeries" wrote

Quoted message said:

If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would [censored] themselves
if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
danger ?

Where will it all end ?

A lot of "experienced adult skiers" think they are in danger because of
other skiers, not because they themselves are poor or reckless skiers. Here
in Colorado there have been a number of fatalities and serious injuries in
the last few years caused by skier collisions. In most cases, a
reckless/inept skier ran into a skier who was minding his or her own
business and skiing carefully, injuring or killing the skier who was skiing
sensibly. Had you picked up the local newspaper while you were at Copper
today, you would have seen a series of articles on this subject, describing
repeated instances of the scenario I just described.

I myself am becoming more and more ambivalent about the whole helmet issue.
I've become more and more inclined to cycle without a helmet under certain
circumstances, and I think I'm much more realistic about the limitations of
a helmet when I do wear one. I tried skiing in a helmet a few times and
didn't like it, but I can certainly understand why some people would choose
to ski or cycle in a helmet.

I agree that, in skiing as in cycling, a lot of people place too much blind
faith in helmets. I also accept that we Americans seem to be leading the
worldwide trend towards trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect
everyone from their own stupidity. However, the adults you saw at Copper are
probably more worried about the skiers/snowboarders around them than about
their own inability to ski sensibly.

I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes, it
is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.
--
mark

mark said:

"MSeries" wrote

Quoted message said:

If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would [censored] themselves
if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
danger ?

Where will it all end ?

A lot of "experienced adult skiers" think they are in danger because of
other skiers, not because they themselves are poor or reckless skiers. Here
in Colorado there have been a number of fatalities and serious injuries in
the last few years caused by skier collisions. In most cases, a
reckless/inept skier ran into a skier who was minding his or her own
business and skiing carefully, injuring or killing the skier who was skiing
sensibly. Had you picked up the local newspaper while you were at Copper
today, you would have seen a series of articles on this subject, describing
repeated instances of the scenario I just described.

Of course I understand that this does happen and probably always has.

Quoted message said:

I myself am becoming more and more ambivalent about the whole helmet issue.
I've become more and more inclined to cycle without a helmet under certain
circumstances, and I think I'm much more realistic about the limitations of
a helmet when I do wear one. I tried skiing in a helmet a few times and
didn't like it, but I can certainly understand why some people would choose
to ski or cycle in a helmet.

I don't think I'd like to ski with a crash helmet on, for the same
reasons I choose not to use my bike helmet. When it gets uncomfortable
theres nowhere to put it and anyway I don't actually think I need one.

Quoted message said:

I agree that, in skiing as in cycling, a lot of people place too much blind
faith in helmets. I also accept that we Americans seem to be leading the
worldwide trend towards trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect
everyone from their own stupidity. However, the adults you saw at Copper are
probably more worried about the skiers/snowboarders around them than about
their own inability to ski sensibly.

Which is surprising to me as the slopes this weekend anyway were so
empty, often I was the only person on a run.

Quoted message said:

I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes, it
is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.

First time I was there in 1994 it snowed all day and visibility was very
poor, seems most Americans prefer to drink hot chocolate when its
snowing rather than ski. Mad dogs and Englishmen :-)

"MSeries" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes,

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.

First time I was there in 1994 it snowed all day and visibility was very
poor, seems most Americans prefer to drink hot chocolate when its
snowing rather than ski. Mad dogs and Englishmen :-)

You're right, many Americans don't do well with bad weather. Some of my best
skiing has been done in snowstorms, and during my ski instructor years some
of my best classes were taught during snowstorms. The fact that everyone
else was inside drinking hot chocolate meant that the slopes were empty!

Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to the top
of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For those who
disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to cycle on,
too.
--
mark

mark said:

Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to

the top

Quoted message said:

of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For

those who

Quoted message said:

disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to

cycle on,

Quoted message said:

too.
--
mark

In 1990 I cycled from Denver to Grand Junction via Boulder, Idaho
Springs, Loveland Pass, Leadville, Independence Pass, Aspen, Fremont
Pass, Delta. Yesterday as I was driving along I-70 I was trying to see
the road that we would have taken from Idaho Springs to Loveland. I
know we did have to use I-70 for short stretches. I was thinking I'd
like to re ride my route across the Rockies some day.

"MSeries" wrote...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to

the top

Quoted message said:

of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For

those who

Quoted message said:

disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to

cycle on,

Quoted message said:

too.
--
mark

In 1990 I cycled from Denver to Grand Junction via Boulder, Idaho
Springs, Loveland Pass, Leadville, Independence Pass, Aspen, Fremont
Pass, Delta. Yesterday as I was driving along I-70 I was trying to see
the road that we would have taken from Idaho Springs to Loveland. I
know we did have to use I-70 for short stretches. I was thinking I'd
like to re ride my route across the Rockies some day.

It's still there, although parts have been supplanted by bicycle paths. A
good bit of the road can't really be seen from the Interstate. Part of US 6
was washed out by a flood in the mid '90s, and instead of repairing it they
relabelled it as a bike path. The steep bit from Georgetown to Silver Plume
now has a bicycle path along side the Interstate. Was that there in 1990?
You still have to cycle on I-70 from Baker to just before the Eisenhower
tunnel, where the oversize vehicles and hazardous cargo trucks have to get
off the Interstate and drive over Loveland Pass instead of going through the
tunnel.

I've seen the description of your trip on your website, it's quite good. You
definitely took the long way around in a few places!
--
mark

mark said:

It's still there, although parts have been supplanted by bicycle

paths. A

Quoted message said:

good bit of the road can't really be seen from the Interstate. Part

of US 6

Quoted message said:

was washed out by a flood in the mid '90s, and instead of repairing

it they

Quoted message said:

relabelled it as a bike path. The steep bit from Georgetown to Silver

Plume

Quoted message said:

now has a bicycle path along side the Interstate. Was that there in

1990?

Quoted message said:

You still have to cycle on I-70 from Baker to just before the

Eisenhower

Quoted message said:

tunnel, where the oversize vehicles and hazardous cargo trucks have

to get

Quoted message said:

off the Interstate and drive over Loveland Pass instead of going

through the

Quoted message said:

tunnel.

I've seen the description of your trip on your website, it's quite

good. You

Quoted message said:

definitely took the long way around in a few places!
--
mark

I can't remember much of the ride to be honest, only the highs and lows
! I do recall riding on I-70 as we asked a State Trooper if we could.
It fealt safer than on other roads as we had a 10ft wide should to
ourselves. Also I remember a sheer rock face on my right hand side. I
remember Loveland Pass very well as I didn't really want to climb it
that day, I wanted to spend the night east of the tunnel but there was
little in the way of camping or accommodations so we pressed on. It was
our first pass over 10,000ft and I was not looking forward to it. I
didn't know that it was not steep and not very long until we summitted
it. The weather was overcast and cool, ideal for riding up hills, and
the descent was fast and very cold though.

We chose our route through the Rockies specifically to visit Boulder
then to cross Independence Pass since it is so high, then we aimed for
Grand Junction to pick up the California Zephyr. A direct route wasn't
really the point of this part of the trip, the Rockies, Independence
Pass in particular, were on our agenda as a must, along with Niagara
Falls, Nashville and Solvang.