Today, this morning.

Colin Blackburn said:

Did anyone hear the article which seemed to be about cycling in Glasgow on the Today programme
this morning, around 7:30? They managed to fit it in the gap between the house radio and the car
radio. It seemed to have a CTC rep on, was it about any particular cycling subject or just part of
bike week?

Colin

Could have been an item on the RAC survey they mentioned Glasgow when it came up on the BBC
Breakfast program.

Allan

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Colin Blackburn said:

Did anyone hear the article which seemed to be about cycling in Glasgow on the Today programme
this morning, around 7:30? They managed to fit it in the gap between the house radio and the car
radio. It seemed to have a CTC rep on, was it about any particular cycling subject or just part
of bike week?

Colin

Could have been an item on the RAC survey they mentioned Glasgow when it came up on the BBC
Breakfast program.

Cheers, that's it. I recognise the quote by the CTC rep which was at the end of the article.

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

Did anyone hear the article which seemed to be about cycling in Glasgow on the Today programme
this morning, around 7:30? They managed to fit it in the gap between the house radio and the car
radio. It seemed to have a CTC rep on, was it about any particular cycling subject or just part of
bike week?

More stirling work by the Beeb this lunchtime. You & Yours featured a London cabbie whinging about
cyclists who jump red lights etc. Sheesh. WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

--
DG

Bah!

Disgruntled Goat said:

Colin Blackburn said:

Did anyone hear the article which seemed to be about cycling in Glasgow on the Today programme
this morning, around 7:30? They managed to fit it in the gap between the house radio and the car
radio. It seemed to have a CTC rep on, was it about any particular cycling subject or just part of
bike week?

More stirling work by the Beeb this lunchtime. You & Yours featured a London cabbie whinging about
cyclists who jump red lights etc. Sheesh. WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

Bike week or Cager's whining week, *this* is The Highway Code. Going through a red light is a
traffic offence, it's just basic simple stuff I'm afraid. Now you know.

Garry

"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:MPG.195cdb018596952b989a6c@localhost...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Colin Blackburn said:

Did anyone hear the article which seemed to be about cycling in

Glasgow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the Today programme this morning, around 7:30? They managed to fit

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the gap between the house radio and the car radio. It seemed to

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a CTC rep on, was it about any particular cycling subject or just part of bike week?

Colin

Could have been an item on the RAC survey they mentioned Glasgow when it came up on the BBC
Breakfast program.

Cheers, that's it. I recognise the quote by the CTC rep which was at the end of the article.

Colin

Unfortunatly the CTC Scotland spokesperson was saying that it was OK for cyclist to jump red
lights. This was playing straight into the hands of the RAC who were the original instigators of
the story with their demand for the police to concentrate cameras on traffic light jumpers instead
of speeders.

Pauline said:

Unfortunatly the CTC Scotland spokesperson was saying that it was OK for cyclist to jump
red lights.

I thought he was cautious: by explaining that "some do it because they can" while others use the
space just ahead of the stop line as a sort of ASL, he explicitly didn't either condone or condemn
the latter practice. Quite why he was there at all puzzled me, after all what is a camera going to
do to stop a numberplateless cyclist jumping a red if they want to?

You and Your Whinges also had a cabbie on talking about the highway code. One wonders when cabbies
became paragons of impeccable driving... Needless to say, he went off on one about cyclists and
their naughty antics.

Quoted message said:

This was playing straight into the hands of the RAC who were the original instigators of the story
with their demand for the police to concentrate cameras on traffic light jumpers instead of
speeders.

I don't really have a problem with extra enforcement of traffic light jumping, just as long as it's
not too much at the expense of speeding. After all, the technology is fairly similar and shouldn't
be too expensive. Round here, some combined speeding/light jumping cameras would be most welcome.

Regards,

-david

Disgruntled Goat said:

More stirling work by the Beeb this lunchtime. You & Yours featured a London cabbie whinging about
cyclists who jump red lights etc. Sheesh. WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

Black cab drivers seem to share a rather unpleasant
psychosis with bus drivers, its probably something caused by diesel inhalation which damages the
brain in a fundamental way. Both groups should IMHO be sent to death camps, did I say death camps?
I meant driver training camps...

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bike week or Cager's whining week, *this* is The Highway Code. Going through a red light is a
traffic offence, it's just basic simple stuff I'm afraid. Now you know.

Actually most people's motivation in complying with the law is more complex than 'it's the law'.
People may follow the law because they believe that what the law is asking them to do is morally
right, or because they believe that it is safer to do so, or because they fear the consequences of
being caught if they don't, or because they want to set an example to others and not feel like a
hypocrite when they criticise others who break the law in other ways etc. etc. I believe the
criminal fraternity has an expression: "do the crime, do the time" - ie. don't do anything you are
not willing to pay the penalty for if caught - it doesn't mean to them don't do it. Society sets its
laws, people follow them or not as the case may be. I don't say people shouldn't follow the law,
rather they should, but some laws are more important than others and most people probably do make
choices based on considerations other than the mere fact of a law existing.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bike week or Cager's whining week, *this* is The Highway Code. Going through a red light is a
traffic offence, it's just basic simple stuff I'm afraid. Now you know.

Actually most people's motivation in complying with the law is more complex than 'it's the law'.
People may follow the law because they believe that what the law is asking them to do is morally
right, or because they believe that it is safer to do so, or because they fear the consequences of
being caught if they don't, or because they want to set an example to others and not feel like a
hypocrite when they criticise others who break the law in other ways etc. etc. I believe the
criminal fraternity has an expression: "do the crime, do the time" - ie. don't do anything you are
not willing to pay the penalty for if caught - it doesn't mean to them don't do it.

That's fine, if you're the only consequence of the crime. Doing a red light as a cyclist? Nah,
irrelevant matey, no big deal, I'm doing 20 as I approach the light, nice speed that is, and I know
there's nothing else around, so I go through it, no big deal, what's your problem'. But if a cager
does it when you're passing a green light, and hits you? Different story eh? And he also knows
there's nobody else around! That [censored] cager did a red light!!!! Plenty of live wires here that
would throw their arms up in a tantrum. Red light is a red light. Stones, greenhouses and all that
[censored]. Some people just don't get it.

Garry

Quoted message said:

Society sets its laws, people follow them or not as the case may be. I don't say people shouldn't
follow the law, rather they should, but some laws are more important than others and most people
probably do make choices based on considerations other than the mere fact of a law existing.

Rich

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's fine, if you're the only consequence of the crime. Doing a red light as a cyclist? Nah,
irrelevant matey, no big deal, I'm doing 20 as I approach the light, nice speed that is, and I
know there's nothing else around, so I go through it, no big deal, what's your problem'. But if a
cager does it when you're passing a green light, and hits you? Different story eh? And he also
knows there's nobody else around! That [censored] cager did a red light!!!! Plenty of live wires here
that would throw their arms up in a tantrum. Red light is a red light. Stones, greenhouses and all
that [censored]. Some people just don't get it.

What you haven't got is that I was addressing your comment about people's motivation in following
the law, not the rightness or wrongness of it. One of the motivations I mentioned was that some
people follow it because they don't want to feel like a hypocrite when they criticise others who
break the law - what you are complaining of here is hypocrisy. Personally I am less worried by
hypocrisy than I am by road users of whatever variety who don't look _properly_ before they act.

You also describe a scenario which is not typical of the manner in which most cyclists jump red
lights, at least not what I have seen on my commute, which is to treat them like any other give way
sign - approach with caution, stop if necessary and give way to anyone else with priority, and only
proceed when it is safe to do so. In fact many cyclists approach green lights with the same degree
of caution, particularly if they've only just turned green, and that is probably quite wise. As I
said in reply to another poster, you can't rely on colour codes to tell you whether it is safe to
go or not.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's fine, if you're the only consequence of the crime. Doing a red light as a cyclist? Nah,
irrelevant matey, no big deal, I'm doing 20 as I approach the light, nice speed that is, and I
know there's nothing else around, so I go through it, no big deal, what's your problem'. But if a
cager does it when you're passing a green light, and hits you? Different story eh? And he also
knows there's nobody else around! That [censored] cager did a red light!!!! Plenty of live wires
here that would throw their arms up in a tantrum. Red light is a red light. Stones, greenhouses
and all that [censored]. Some people just don't get it.

What you haven't got is that I was addressing your comment about people's motivation in following
the law, not the rightness or wrongness of it. One of the motivations I mentioned was that some
people follow it because they don't want to feel like a hypocrite when they criticise others who
break the law - what you are complaining of here is hypocrisy. Personally I am less worried by
hypocrisy than I am by road users of whatever variety who don't look _properly_ before they act.

So what you're saying is, it's all about observation. No complaints with that - that's basic road
awareness. But doing it when you don't legally(according to traffic laws) have the right of way,
increases the risk. What you're doing is rationalizing the ignoring of traffic laws when it suits
you, which again, I can understand. As a cyclist I've done it myself - easing through a red when the
coast is clear, or at least when I think it is. That's ok, until something happens, like something
appearing on a 'blind spot', you've overlooked, then it's not so safe.

Maybe it's no big deal, and it's perfectly ok to choose when we want to strictly obey traffic laws
as cyclists, but it lets the cycling community down big time, and gives the 'cager' (whoever he or
she may be) plenty to 'come back with' as a counter argument in the whole road safety issue. Then
opinions get entrenched and it's stalemate all the way.

At the end of the day, awareness is the key......but concentration can be difficult to sustain for
long periods sometimes. Sometimes it's so easy to let the travelling take care of itself and allow
the mind to wander elsewhere.

Anyway, I have to go now, time to cycle up that damn hill to pick my car and gear up from a gig we
did last night at a beer festival. It was a good gig and the beer was wonderful :-)

Garry

In article <[email hidden]>, David Nutter
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

One wonders when cabbies became paragons of impeccable driving... Needless to say, he went off on
one about cyclists and their naughty antics.

After several near misses in London I'm especially attentive round taxi drivers 'cos more often than
not when they spot a potential fare beckoning from the pavement they swing left without checking to
see that it's clear to do so. They also do it when they're about to drop passengers off but aren't
sure exactly which shop front or door to stop outside.

--
congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... congokid.comcongokid.comOpen ↗

Garry Broad said:

Disgruntled Goat said:

More stirling work by the Beeb this lunchtime. You & Yours featured a London cabbie whinging about
cyclists who jump red lights etc. Sheesh. WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

Bike week or Cager's whining week, *this* is The Highway Code.

And?

Quoted message said:

Going through a red light is a traffic offence, it's just basic simple stuff I'm afraid. Now
you know.

I knew before, but thank you for stating the bleeding obvious. My point is that a London cabbie
ranting about cyclists breaking the highway code is somewhat akin to Charlie Manson complaining
about the amount of violence in society.

--
DG

Bah!

Daniel Wilcox said:

Disgruntled Goat said:

More stirling work by the Beeb this lunchtime. You & Yours featured a London cabbie whinging
about cyclists who jump red lights etc. Sheesh. WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

Black cab drivers seem to share a rather unpleasant
psychosis with bus drivers, its probably something caused by diesel inhalation which damages the
brain in a fundamental way.

:-)

Quoted message said:

Both groups should IMHO be sent to death camps, did I say death camps? I meant driver training
camps...

Located on Salisbury Plain. But first, we need to "decontaminate" them...
--
DG

Bah!

Disgruntled Goat said:

WTF is this? Bike Week or Cagers Whining Week?

EVERY week is Cagers Whining Week - see uk.tosspot for details.

Guy
===
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notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.