To pass, or not to pass...

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast,
not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a
bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to
pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time
at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset
that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount
to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in
other words, your worst nightmare). If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never
mind that that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the
side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead
that I can ride my pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues.
This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well
could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at
all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them up to
15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping
and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any time,
simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and antisocial rider, for the most
part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody is toying with me. But not these
guys. Did they have any idea that they were being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally
turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again,
and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and
stopped.

Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail...

Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being passed by anyone
young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of macho idiots but you dealt with
them well.

Steve.

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast,
not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a
bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to
pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time
at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset
that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount
to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in
other words, your worst nightmare).

They sound pretty clueless. I'd hope that they'd get passed a few times and figure out the whole
trail etiquette ... but who knows. I mean, there are some clueless folks who stay that way.

(I know I had a lucky break ... the first "girl" who passed me was a NORBA racer we all knew by
reputation. I knew I wasn't going to keep up, and I got over the "being passed by a girl thing"
real quick.)

[snip]

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast,
not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a
bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to
pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up

On behalf of 40-somethings everywhere, please find another phrase to use!

(No personal issue; just going for the easy quip.)

(Really.)

🙂

Bill

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast,
not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a
bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to
pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time
at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset
that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount
to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in
other words, your worst nightmare). If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never
mind that that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the
side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead
that I can ride my pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues.
This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well
could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at
all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them up to
15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping
and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any time,
simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and antisocial rider, for the most
part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody is toying with me. But not these
guys. Did they have any idea that they were being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally
turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again,
and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and
stopped.

Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail...

Speaking for myself as a 40-something guy, I guess I can understand their feelings. It is not
particularly easy being raised to support a family, be the pillar of strength, be aggressive in
business and athletic life, and then show our sensitive side when called for, not always be
competitive ...

The guys I ride with, particularly those IBM riding partners, are called on to be competitive at
work and have been (and still are) involved in individual and team sports. I have often heard many
of us say something to the effect "everything is a competition", and I think we really believe it.
It is that aggressive nature that has kept us moving forward in the corporate world and has driven
us to compete with guys half our age on the basketball court and on the trail. Sometimes we do OK.

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature of
the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like it
did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot of
control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)

We have a huge park with several miles of fireroads near town, and they have a few long climbs. I
see this sort of behavior all the time there. It doesn't seem to be just when women riders are
approaching, its with anyone. I see guys start cranking wildly when they realize they're going to be
passed. Most of the "hills" take at least 10-15 minutes to climb (several hundred feet elevation
gain), so riders often burn out before the climb ends.

Being passed is a bit of a blow to the ego, albeit a very minor one for most of us. I imagine being
passed by a woman makes the blow a little harder. Personally, I empathize: I'm glad I have the
helmet and glasses, so the younger guys (who often aren't in half the shape they could be) won't get
so freaked out about being passed by someone twice their age. And if the climb is nearly over, I'll
just follow a guy rather than pass him, even if he's slow enough that I could pass him.

Usually I just avoid those particular fireroads; there are much harder climbs in the park that the
vast majority of riders avoid, and where the mountain (rather than someone else) is more likely to
kick one's butt. There are no ego issues there. Just pain.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Kathleen said:

This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How
well could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal
communication at all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I
could force them up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off,
they'd slow down as well, gasping and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting
them to put an end to my game at any time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a
solitary and antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest suspicion
that somebody is toying with me. But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were
being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side trail, and up a
hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again, and when they saw the coast was
clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped.

Great story, great tactic.

Speaking for 50 somethings, here's the bottom line: if you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.
Face it: wherever you go, there's going to be faster gunslingers, male, female, old, young. If you
are a fatty who is going too slow and won't yield, the only thing you've accomplished is adding rude
to the equation. You're still a fattie; now you're a rude fattie. What an honor ;-) --dt

Craig Brossman wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature
of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like
it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot
of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to it at any point simply by
stopping. Maybe it was a little... cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what
they'd do. But they had the same options I did.

Kathleen

"Craig Brossman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to

defend.

Quoted message said:

It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you,
it does not sound like it did. Bear in mind,

I

Quoted message said:

am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot

of

Quoted message said:

control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

I (another 40-something guy) don't like being passed, but I know that's about me. I don't have any
hard feelings toward whoever passes me. I just want to be fast like them. (OK, I _might_ want to be
faster than them. As soon as that's an attainable goal.)

If these guys are feeling agressive, they should be polite enough to let any overtaking rider by,
and then either hang with them ... or pass them back.

BTW, the second part of that story about being passed by the woman NORBA racer (she might have been
champion that year - late 80's) was that I saw her on the road later. She was driving a Volkswagen
van, and as I passed her in my car I hunched over the wheel and gave her an evil grin. She laughed,
I hope she thought it was really funny.

spademan o---) * said:

Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being passed by anyone
young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of macho idiots but you dealt with
them well.

I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious intent, and I'm not at
all sure how aware these guys were of what they were doing, let alone what *I* was doing.
When they'd look back, were they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it
more a case of being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential dread? Maybe
neither, maybe both, who knows? The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you
play a game you don't want to play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but it's more
fun when you make it a choice, instead of just getting sucked into it. If it's fun for you
to make a race of it out on the trail, go for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point
to getting rattled about it.

Kathleen

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Craig Brossman wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to

defend.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy
you, it does not sound like it did. Bear in

mind, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to it at any point simply by
stopping. Maybe it was a little... cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd do.
But they had the same options I did.

BTW, we had a Border Collie when I was growin up. I know exactly what you mean ;-)

Kathleen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

I say pass em and let em eat your dust. I've ridden with guys like that who would rather cough up a
lung and die than let a woman pass. They're idiots. I was passed by a string of females on a climb
in a race once, and just had to shrug my shoulders, admit they were younger, stronger, better
looking for sure, and maybe even better <gasp!>. And it's not like I was competing with them for a
spot on the podium. ha. What's the big deal, guys?

On our recent AMB epic, since I was predominantly "the volunteer sweeper" and I kept it in the
middle ring, I often had to stop and let the slower riders work their way, (or walk their way)
through the tough spots, and then I could remount and ride at my own pace to catch up, and start the
cycle (no pun intended) all over again.

Kinda like your stop, drink, smell the roses, let the jerks get a substantial lead, type
of strategy.

In your case, it is funny when complete strangers give you that kind of control over them, isn't it?

Paladin

Quoted message said:

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially
fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were
going just a bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd
start to speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep
it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this
position before. There's a mindset that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being
passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount to finding yourself in calculus class in your
underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in other words, your worst nightmare). If I
pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never mind that that they can't maintain
the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the side of the trail, have a
nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead that I can ride my
pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues. This time,
though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well could I
control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at
all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them
up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as
well, gasping and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to
my game at any time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and
antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody
is toying with me. But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were being
deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill,
and watched as they looked behind them, looked again, and when they saw the coast was clear,
finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped.

Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail...

"I imagine being passed by a woman makes the blow a little harder."

Indeed.

Craig Brossman said:

Speaking for myself as a 40-something guy, I guess I can understand their feelings. It is not
particularly easy being raised to support a family, be the pillar of strength, be aggressive in
business and athletic life, and then show our sensitive side when called for, not always be
competitive ...

The guys I ride with, particularly those IBM riding partners, are called on to be competitive at
work and have been (and still are) involved in individual and team sports. I have often heard many
of us say something to the effect "everything is a competition", and I think we really believe it.
It is that aggressive nature that has kept us moving forward in the corporate world and has driven
us to compete with guys half our age on the basketball court and on the trail. Sometimes we do OK.

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature
of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like
it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot
of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)

Bah! Why is it so hard to realize that, if you're not an international champion bike racer, there's
someone out there faster than you? And that unless you're a serious competitive racer of any level,
that there are MANY others out there faster than you?

I don't get passed often, but when I do it's not a big deal. Unless I'm on my road bike getting
passed by mountain bikers. That stings a little, but it only happens if I'm on a recovery ride.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

spademan o---) * said:

Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being

passed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of macho idiots but you
dealt with them well.

I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious intent, and I'm not at all
sure how aware these guys were of what they were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd
look back, were they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a case of
being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who
knows? The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game you don't want to
play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but it's more fun when you make it a choice,
instead of just getting sucked into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the trail,
go for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled about it.

Kathleen

Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by women. We have several
local female World Cup competitors who occasionally blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in
the matter for me. It's like "Hey, that was <insert famous rider name here>" and before I can be
sure she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the local scene.

Matt

Kathleen said:

Craig Brossman wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature
of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound
like it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a
lot of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to it at any point simply by
stopping. Maybe it was a little... cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd
do. But they had the same options I did.

Kathleen

Served 'em right if you ask me. If they're clueless about trail etiquette, they need to learn the
hard way if necessary. If they're too macho to let themselves get passed by a girl, they need to
bring what they've got. It would've been funny if you ended up herding them into the ground.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Raptor said:

Craig Brossman said:

Speaking for myself as a 40-something guy, I guess I can understand their feelings. It is not
particularly easy being raised to support a family, be the pillar of strength, be aggressive in
business and athletic life, and then show our sensitive side when called for, not always be
competitive ...

The guys I ride with, particularly those IBM riding partners, are called on to be competitive at
work and have been (and still are) involved in individual and team sports. I have often heard
many of us say something to the effect "everything is a competition", and I think we really
believe
it.It is that aggressive nature that has kept us moving forward in the corporate world and has
driven us to compete with guys half our age on the basketball court and on the trail.
Sometimes we do OK.

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature
of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound
like it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a
lot of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)

Bah! Why is it so hard to realize that, if you're not an international champion bike racer,
there's someone out there faster than you? And that unless you're a serious competitive racer of
any level, that there are MANY others out there faster than you?

I don't get passed often, but when I do it's not a big deal. Unless I'm on my road bike getting
passed by mountain bikers. That stings a little, but it only happens if I'm on a recovery ride.

I've had that happen before.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

MattB said:

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

spademan o---) * said:

Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being

passed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple

of

Quoted message said:

macho idiots but you dealt with them well.

I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious intent, and I'm not at all
sure how aware these guys were of what they were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd
look back, were they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a case of
being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who
knows? The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game you don't want to
play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but it's more fun when you make it a choice,
instead of just getting sucked into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the
trail, go for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled about it.

Kathleen

Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by women. We have
several local female World Cup competitors who occasionally blow by me on the trails. There's no
choice in the matter for me. It's like "Hey, that was <insert famous rider name here>" and
before I can be sure she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the
local scene.

Matt

You're lucky -- I've yet to see a female rider on the trails I ride, let alone one that's famous.
Perhaps they thought that you didn't want to pass. Who knows? Personally, I let people pass all the
time. I would've stopped to let Kathleen pass, as I like to go my own pace. If her pace is faster
than mine, I'd stop. If it's slower (which would be unlikely), I'd probably pass. Last weekend, I
met someone, and then we met a group of riders. Since the group knew the trail back, and we didn't,
we followed them. For my style of riding, they stopped too much. I like to stop once -
- when I'm done. These guys stopped all the time, although sometimes they stopped to take some
drop offs. I'm the type that likes to ride the entire time I'm out, but I also don't have the
skills (or the 7 inches of front and rear travel -- I have a hardtail) to even attempt what they
were riding.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

Well Kathleen,

I think you're most probably making the whole thing up. I can just sense it. I think you made this
fantasy up as you where riding alone. I'm not saying women are slower than men, just that you live
in a world of make believe.

:-)

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast,
not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a
bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to
pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time
at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset
that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount
to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in
other words, your worst nightmare). If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never
mind that that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the
side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead
that I can ride my pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues.
This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well
could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at
all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them up to
15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping
and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any time,
simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and antisocial rider, for the most
part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody is toying with me. But not these
guys. Did they have any idea that they were being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally
turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again,
and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and
stopped.

Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail...

Kathleen said:

...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially
fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going
just a bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to
speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but
no... In no time at all, they'd slack back off again.

...

Quoted message said:

Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail...

Great idea -- sounds like it was fun 🙂. But, in their defense... depending on my mood, I
sometimes take an

It just gives me a push to try harder to stay ahead. I yield as they get close (I'm not trying to
block them), but once they've passed me, I also try to see how long I can keep up. It helps me
push myself. If it's a woman, it's a plus -- I'd much rather watch a female back going into the
distance 🙂.

David