Titanium or carbon

Leonard Migliore said:

Dr Engelbert Buxbaum said:

titanium carabines [...] can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4
degrees C)

If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloy no doubt.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum

Quoted message said:

Dr. Rev. Chuck said:

Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.

That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.

If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more airplanes?
They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum

Quoted message said:

Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:

> Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.

That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.

If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

Shouldn't one be not to break? Think the manufacturer has not mastered the metal a la ti bikes
of the 80s.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.

Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.

Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.

kestrel-usa.comkestrel-usa.comOpen ↗

According to Kestrel's website-
===================================
Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
=======================================

65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is a
good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount (crash
replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.

This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
higher prices.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
litespeed.comwarranty.htmlOpen ↗ Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.

[email hidden] (Dave Beal) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident? The
> warranty is against "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
>
> Trek would say the same thing, as would any other manufacturer.

Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault Warranty' on selected carbon frames.
It covers any damage including accidents and outright abuse.

kestrel-usa.comkestrel-usa.comOpen ↗

According to Kestrel's website-
===================================
Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the product, but will be no more than 65%
of the current manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the exchange. Ask your dealer
or KESTREL for details and the current replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns the product.
=======================================

65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault" warranty freebie. What it is is
a good way to maintain customer loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount
(crash replacement credit, they call it), and I believe Cannondale has a similar program.

This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or Cannondale is responsible for a frame
breaking in an accident. It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed on to all users in the form of
higher prices.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
litespeed.comwarranty.htmlOpen ↗ Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just
what it doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and disclaimers. I love lawyers.

I have a Litespeed Classic in for a broken chainstay/dropout, that much to my discust happened on
Mt. Ventoux on the 11th day of a 48 day vacation. Litespeed however are going to fix it, inspect all
other welds and repaint the frame and restore it to like new...get back to you when this happens.

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum

Quoted message said:

Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:

> Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.

That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single Rope Technique, I was
warned against using titanium carabines in my equipment. There had actually been accidents
because they can suddenly shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We
always used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.

If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans exploding off of more
airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design criteria.

What you say has merit, but mountaineering gear - life and death equipment at that - that gets
brittle enough to break in the cold? How likely is that? They must have a very clear warning on them
somewhere. Didn't notice any of those the last time I was at MEC.

Bernie