Titanium cogs spark when shifting

Marty Wallace said:

Quoted message said:

almost fast aka Real Slow said:

I was watching the shifts on the trainer and noticed a spark when the
chain snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium (Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda cool!

Well the sparks didn't come from the titanium. Adjustable and fixed
wrenches, screwdrivers, and other tools used around combustible gas
applications are made of titanium to prevent ignition by sparks.

There is an explanation, but titanium sparking is out.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

We use non-sparking tools for working with hydrogen but they have a
bronze colour. They're definitely much harder and stronger than
bronze. Are you sure the titanium isn't alloyed with something to
take the spark out of it?

Of course they are alloyed, just as titanium frames or stainless steel
is. Yes the tools I used were that color you describe most certainly.
As I said, the people who use these know why and are not going to come
to this forum to learn more about it.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:54:48 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

almost fast aka Real Slow said:

I was watching the shifts on the trainer and noticed a spark when the
chain snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium (Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda cool!

Well the sparks didn't come from the titanium. Adjustable and fixed
wrenches, screwdrivers, and other tools used around combustible gas
applications are made of titanium to prevent ignition by sparks.

There is an explanation, but titanium sparking is out.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

I've sand blasted titanium with the lights out. Spark shower!!!

You don't have to take my word for it -- try it with the next chunk of
unneeded ti you come across (a worn out Dura-Ace cassette perhaps?).

Maybe he just farted......................

On 5/31/04 1:54 PM, in article [email hidden],

Quoted post said:

almost fast aka Real Slow said:

I was watching the shifts on the trainer and noticed a spark when the
chain snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium (Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda cool!

Well the sparks didn't come from the titanium. Adjustable and fixed
wrenches, screwdrivers, and other tools used around combustible gas
applications are made of titanium to prevent ignition by sparks.

There is an explanation, but titanium sparking is out.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

dianne_1234 said:

I've sand blasted titanium with the lights out. Spark shower!!!

You don't have to take my word for it -- try it with the next chunk of
unneeded ti you come across (a worn out Dura-Ace cassette perhaps?).

Is that the titanium or the blasting material doing the sparking?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marty Wallace said:

Quoted message said:

almost fast aka Real Slow writes:

> I was watching the shifts on the trainer and noticed a spark when

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> chain snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium (Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda

cool!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well the sparks didn't come from the titanium. Adjustable and fixed
wrenches, screwdrivers, and other tools used around combustible gas
applications are made of titanium to prevent ignition by sparks.

There is an explanation, but titanium sparking is out.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

We use non-sparking tools for working with hydrogen but they have a
bronze colour. They're definitely much harder and stronger than
bronze. Are you sure the titanium isn't alloyed with something to
take the spark out of it?

Of course they are alloyed, just as titanium frames or stainless steel
is. Yes the tools I used were that color you describe most certainly.
As I said, the people who use these know why and are not going to come
to this forum to learn more about it.

Ahh, very true. Busy people those. On the other hand, they might come here
to find out why the hell their Dura-Ace 9 speed ti cogs keep sparkin' like
that... 😉

[email hidden] wrote in:

Quoted message said:

Allen None said:

Otherwise, somebodies a'gittin ripped off buying these...

http://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/18/208

I suspect that the term titanium is in that product name to give it a
lively spin rather than that the devices are actually titanium. On
the other hand, it seems the sparks must be coming from the pavement
rather than the metal if at all.

No, it's the titanium. It sparks much more brightly than steel when
abraded. Hence "Fire Starter" freestyle axle pegs:
http://www.bmx-test.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi?review_id=2070

The nonferrous, nonsparking tools I've seen are all beryllium-copper:
http://www.bestcontainers.com/5001b.html

To be certain, I just took a strip of 6Al/4V titanium to the bench
grinder and produced my own cascade of brilliant white sparks. Now I
have to figure out how to incorporate this feature into one of my own
bikes!

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect that the term titanium is in that product name to give it
a lively spin rather than that the devices are actually titanium.
On the other hand, it seems the sparks must be coming from the
pavement rather than the metal if at all.

Quoted message said:

No, it's the titanium. It sparks much more brightly than steel when
abraded. Hence "Fire Starter" freestyle axle pegs:

Quoted message said:

http://www.bmx-test.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi?review_id=2070

Quoted message said:

The nonferrous, non-sparking tools I've seen are all beryllium-copper:

Quoted message said:

http://www.bestcontainers.com/5001b.html

Oops, you are absolutely right. The tools I used on the hydrogen
plumbing were in fact beryllium alloys. I got beryllium confused with
titanium which is also a whiz bang name drop material in bicycling.
In fact some early race car brake disks were beryllium to save weight
but that all went by the wayside with carbon on carbon brakes that
leave no residue, the product being CO2.

However, both beryllium and titanium are combustible according to the
following web page although spark generation is not treated.

http://tinyurl.com/2637y

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] writes:
Chalo <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Oops, you are absolutely right. The tools I used on the hydrogen
plumbing were in fact beryllium alloys. I got beryllium confused with
titanium which is also a whiz bang name drop material in bicycling.
In fact some early race car brake disks were beryllium to save weight
but that all went by the wayside with carbon on carbon brakes that
leave no residue, the product being

I was waiting for someone to finally correct that too. Beryllium dust is also
quite toxic. Probably not the best choice for brake rotors but it is light.

On 02 Jun 2004 05:28:46 GMT, [email hidden] (VCopelan)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] writes:
Chalo <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Oops, you are absolutely right. The tools I used on the hydrogen
plumbing were in fact beryllium alloys. I got beryllium confused with
titanium which is also a whiz bang name drop material in bicycling.
In fact some early race car brake disks were beryllium to save weight
but that all went by the wayside with carbon on carbon brakes that
leave no residue, the product being

I was waiting for someone to finally correct that too. Beryllium dust is also
quite toxic. Probably not the best choice for brake rotors but it is light.

Dear Chalo,

Somewhere I once read that beryllium brake rotors are used
in aircraft, where their light weight and high thermal
capacity are advantages . . .

Aha! Probably here:

<http://www.bikepro.com/products/metals/beryll.html>

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 02 Jun 2004 05:28:46 GMT, [email hidden] (VCopelan)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] writes:
Chalo <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Oops, you are absolutely right. The tools I used on the hydrogen
plumbing were in fact beryllium alloys. I got beryllium confused with
titanium which is also a whiz bang name drop material in bicycling.
In fact some early race car brake disks were beryllium to save weight
but that all went by the wayside with carbon on carbon brakes that
leave no residue, the product being

I was waiting for someone to finally correct that too. Beryllium dust

is also

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

quite toxic. Probably not the best choice for brake rotors but it is

light.

Quoted message said:

Dear Chalo,

Somewhere I once read that beryllium brake rotors are used
in aircraft, where their light weight and high thermal
capacity are advantages . . .

Aha! Probably here:

<http://www.bikepro.com/products/metals/beryll.html>

Carl Fogel

Beryllium Copper is used for the hairsprings in pressure gauges.
Fairly resistant to corrosion and good elastic properties.
I think Beryllium is also used in transistors for it's ability to move
heat.

That's my instrument trade coming through.

Marty

Quoted message said:

However, both beryllium and titanium are combustible according to the
following web page although spark generation is not treated.

http://tinyurl.com/2637y

Beryllium metal is horrible stuff, exhibiting lethal toxicity in a
portion of the population at low exposure dosages. More folks in the
Manhattan Project died from exposure to beryllium, IIRC, than from
exposure to radiation or radioactive materials.

The beryllium copper I have worked in the past (C17200) is composed of
only 2% beryllium by weight, and its mechanical and thermal qualities
are comparable to (though usually better than) other high-strength
bronze materials. I think it would share similar flammability
characteristics with them as well, with its 97% or so of copper
predominating the mix.

Chalo Colina

From: [email hidden] (almost=A0fast)

Quoted message said:

I was watching the shifts on the trainer
and noticed a spark when the chain
snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium
(Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda cool!

Just make sure you don't have any magnesiun componentry in the area!
LOL.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:54:48 GMT [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

almost fast aka Real Slow said:

I was watching the shifts on the trainer and noticed a spark when the
chain snapped past a tooth. Cog is titanium (Dura-Ace 9s). Kinda cool!

Well the sparks didn't come from the titanium. Adjustable and fixed
wrenches, screwdrivers, and other tools used around combustible gas
applications are made of titanium to prevent ignition by sparks.

Perhaps you're thinking of berilium copper tools. There would be no
reason to have non-sparking tools around an accelerator, but the
target area might well have a hydrogen bubble chamber which might well
be a good place for such tools.

Quoted message said:

There is an explanation, but titanium sparking is out.

Never seen titanium spark? It does readily when it is clean, but
usually forms an oxide/nitride layer rather quickly on exposure to
air. Titanium is unique in that it is the only metal which will "burn"
in both oxygen and nitrogen.

Titanium sparks from a grinding wheel are useful for identifying the
metal.

While I'd be surprised to see sparks in the situation described, they
are certainly within the realm of possibility.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

31 May 2004 20:46:07 -0700 Dan Daniel said:

Is that the titanium or the blasting material doing the sparking?

It's actually the titanium. I've watched it spark and actually burn
when cleaning out vacuum chambers which had been coated with a thin
flakes of pure titanium from titanium getter pumps.

The fireworks start when you let the chamber up to air and then try to
brush the flakes out to clean off the chamber walls.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------