Tiredness, Lethargy, 'Crashing'

"Virginia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all.
Just a resource posting.

I've struggled for eight years to find a reason for my sudden symptoms of
physical weakness and extreme fatigue. I wanted to share these articles

with

Quoted message said:

others, as I wasted a lot of time looking for answers.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000312.htm
and
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000316.htm

Summary - A potassium 'shift' occurs when potassium levels in the
bloodstream are temporarily abnormal - interfering with muscle function.
Levels can be too high or too low, causing symptoms of weakness, heart
irregularity and difficulty breathing.

Best wishes to all.
Feel free to share thoughts and questions.

--

Virginia
"Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

www.thedesignuniverse.com

Virginia, there are hundreds of conditions, illness that can cause tiredness
etc. There are specific tests for those that you refer to and if they are
confirmed by lab tests then they come into play. It can be problematic in
trying to draw blood during those attacks or doing any testing as you have
to do the testing during the episode.
You will only go from one condition in which you think you have to another
based solely on non specific symptoms from reading the medical books. I
would be cautious in trying to talk yourself into something you might not
have in order to simply get a diagnosis which may give you some relief.
What if it really turns out to be multiple sclerosis instead? Rather than
embracing the first diagnosis that comes along a more skeptical approach
would be better in the long run. The conditions you mention are very rare
to the point where I have never seen one in the 25 years of hospital work.
Uncommon presentation of common disorders has a higher incidence than common
presentations of uncommon disorders.

Once upon a time, our fellow Robert
rambled on about "Re: Tiredness, Lethargy, 'Crashing'."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Uncommon presentation of common disorders has a higher incidence than common
presentations of uncommon disorders.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Yeah, ... Sure, Right!

"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Virginia, there are hundreds of conditions, illness that can cause

tiredness

Quoted message said:

etc. There are specific tests for those that you refer to and if they are
confirmed by lab tests then they come into play. It can be problematic in
trying to draw blood during those attacks or doing any testing as you have
to do the testing during the episode.
You will only go from one condition in which you think you have to another
based solely on non specific symptoms from reading the medical books. I
would be cautious in trying to talk yourself into something you might not
have in order to simply get a diagnosis which may give you some relief.
What if it really turns out to be multiple sclerosis instead? Rather than
embracing the first diagnosis that comes along a more skeptical approach
would be better in the long run. The conditions you mention are very rare
to the point where I have never seen one in the 25 years of hospital work.
Uncommon presentation of common disorders has a higher incidence than

common

Quoted message said:

presentations of uncommon disorders.

Thanks for your thoughts, Robert, but I've run through the gamut. I've seen
doctors, naturopaths, rheumatoid specialists and heart specialists. The
heart doctor (for lack of tech term at the moment) suggest the potassium
shift as a possible cause. I've had mucho blood work done, ultrasound,
monitors, and nobody has come up with anything. So, for now, I'll stick to
what I have, as it seems to be working, and if something else presents
itself in the future, I sure in the hell won't have myself to blame.

Virginia
"Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

www.thedesignuniverse.com

do u have proof of such potassium shifts in your body?

Quoted message said:

"Dr. Wayne Simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

do u have proof of such potassium shifts in your body?

Quoted message said:

Nope. I've ran down to the lab a few times during a crash (which is
dangerous to be driving during) and we haven't managed to nail it down.
However, they tell me that it's very difficult to catch it at the right time
because the levels are only down for a short time.
I've had excellent results with an intake of potassium during a crash - it
will pull me back out shortly. And I tried everything else - sugar, no
sugar, eating, not eating, caffeine, sleeping. Basically I've been waiting
it out. So at this point I'm very pleased to have found an answer. I also
recently discovered I have an uncle with the same problem.- Points to the
genetic disorder possiblity, as I don't take any medications and there are
no other determining factors.
(Eating carbs for breakfast and lunch will do me in.)

Virginia said:

I've struggled for eight years to find a reason for my sudden symptoms of
physical weakness and extreme fatigue. I wanted to share these articles with
others, as I wasted a lot of time looking for answers.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000312.htm

Glucose or other carbohydrates (sugars) given during an attack may reduce the
severity. Intravenous calcium or diuretics such as furosemide may need to be
given to stop sudden attacks. Intravenous glucose and insulin cause potassium to
move into the cell and may reduce weakness without a loss of total body
potassium.
A high-carbohydrate diet may be recommended.

Quoted message said:

and
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000316.htm

Attacks may be triggered by eating high carbohydrate or high salt meals[]

Well, Medline doesn't even agree with itself.
J

Virginia said:

(Eating carbs for breakfast and lunch will do me in.)

If that's the case, it's reproducible in a lab/hospital and bloodwork could be
run.
J

Virginia said:

The
heart doctor (for lack of tech term at the moment) suggest the potassium
shift as a possible cause.

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I can think of at least 4 or 5 conditions (or more) ...

Not that I don't think people can have rare conditons. It's in your best
interests to have it proven (or disproven).
J

You'd think, but nobody seems to care enough. I'm not going to push it any
further cuz I'm very tired of pushing to get answers.

--

Virginia
"Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

www.thedesignuniverse.com

"J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Virginia said:

(Eating carbs for breakfast and lunch will do me in.)

If that's the case, it's reproducible in a lab/hospital and bloodwork

could be

Quoted message said:

run.
J

J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]... <SNIP>

Quoted message said:

A high-carbohydrate diet may be recommended.

Quoted message said:

and
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000316.htm

Attacks may be triggered by eating high carbohydrate or high salt meals[]

Well, Medline doesn't even agree with itself.
J

No no no. They're two different things. HYPO and HYPER.

Virginia

"Virginia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all.
Just a resource posting.

I've struggled for eight years to find a reason for my sudden symptoms of
physical weakness and extreme fatigue. I wanted to share these articles

with

Quoted message said:

others, as I wasted a lot of time looking for answers.

How old were you when the symptoms started? Any relatives have a similar
problem? Are you on any meds?

Do you think depression is a possiblility?

Chip

J said:

I can think of at least 4 or 5 conditions (or more) ...

Spontaneous hypoglycemia ?
J

"Chip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How old were you when the symptoms started? Any relatives have a similar
problem? Are you on any meds?

Do you think depression is a possiblility?

Chip

No meds. No chronic or acute physical conditions. It's a sudden physical
crash - doesn't matter what I'm doing or when - so I haven't been able to
relate it to a mental state.

Virginia
"Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

www.thedesignuniverse.com

Quoted message said:

You'd think, but nobody seems to care enough. I'm not going to push it any
further cuz I'm very tired of pushing to get answers.

I am wondering what could be causing the sudden loss of potassium. Do
you eat liquorice?

"Severe hypokalaemia with paralysis induced by small doses of liquorice.

Cumming AM, Boddy K, Brown JJ, Fraser R, Lever AF, Padfield PL,
Robertson JI.

A patient, who presented with a flaccid quadriplegia due to profound
hypokalaemia, is described. Hypokalaemia and myoglobinuria were caused
by the ingestion of small amounts of liquorice contained in a laxative
preparation. Subsequent controlled administration of small amounts of
this preparation induced marked hypokalaemia. This was associated with
sodium retention and potassium loss confirming a mineralocorticoid-like
action. The sodium retention was associated with suppression of plasma
levels of renin and aldosterone."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7443613&dopt=Abstract

regards
Jim

In sci.med Virginia <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Hello all.
: Just a resource posting.

: I've struggled for eight years to find a reason for my sudden symptoms of
: physical weakness and extreme fatigue. I wanted to share these articles with
: others, as I wasted a lot of time looking for answers.

What time of day or night?

Have you had a sleep study?

Virginia said:

You'd think, but nobody seems to care enough. I'm not going to push it any
further cuz I'm very tired of pushing to get answers.

In sci.med.
Well the MTO (driving) would be interested

Also I think back to when we were teens jaywalking across a 4-lane street (and
accidents can happen anywhere). (everyone from the school nearby had been
doing it for years with no problem since it was "small town" and there was no
lights nor crosswalk for many blocks either way..to get over to the park
across the street).
Bunch of teens, stopped in the middle lines for oncoming traffic, then some
dashed across.
Another group followed which I was part of, attained the sidewalk only to hear
one huge thump, tires screeching and other awful sounds.
A sweet and beautiful friend had apparently "dropped" right into the traffic,
got thrown from being hit by an oncoming car, then run over by 2 other cars
coming in the other lane. Gone in a second.
Point? she had no "known" health problems but just keeled over.

Emma mentioned a sleep study, perhaps a daytime? You also should be made aware
that doctors are requ'd to advise MTO in the case of such situations. This
can work in one's favour (or not). Ensues threatening letters for months from
MTO about suspending driver's license pending health investigations. If
nothing's found and the patient reports no more episodes, (in theory) a letter
from the doctor goes to MTO to stop the suspension.

In the meantime, the very slow wheels of bureaucracy and health tests in ON ,
in comes the letter of suspension. So now we have a patient "keeling over" who
has to get to work and/or health investigations with no wheels to do it.
J

Virginia said:

No no no. They're two different things. HYPO and HYPER.

My mistake. I did look at both several times.
Eyes playing tricks on me.
Sorry
J

"Jim Byrne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'd think, but nobody seems to care enough. I'm not going to push it

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

further cuz I'm very tired of pushing to get answers.

I am wondering what could be causing the sudden loss of potassium. Do
you eat liquorice?

"Severe hypokalaemia with paralysis induced by small doses of liquorice.

Cumming AM, Boddy K, Brown JJ, Fraser R, Lever AF, Padfield PL,
Robertson JI.

A patient, who presented with a flaccid quadriplegia due to profound
hypokalaemia, is described. Hypokalaemia and myoglobinuria were caused
by the ingestion of small amounts of liquorice contained in a laxative
preparation. Subsequent controlled administration of small amounts of
this preparation induced marked hypokalaemia. This was associated with
sodium retention and potassium loss confirming a mineralocorticoid-like
action. The sodium retention was associated with suppression of plasma
levels of renin and aldosterone."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7443613&dopt=Abstract

Quoted message said:

regards
Jim

Liquorice has been associated with hypertension for the same reason.
Mineralocorticoid-like action means the retention of sodium which is the
function of the primary sodium retaining hormone aldosterone usually but
similar mineralcorticoids can do the same thing. Once the sodium is
retained by this action within the renal tubules then in order to maintain
an iso-neutrality a similar charge potassium takes it's place and is lost in
the urine. With chronic loss the low blood potassium levels may cause
muscle damage as seen by the myoglobin in the urine.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:00:03 -0700, "Virginia" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Nope. I've ran down to the lab a few times during a crash (which is
dangerous to be driving during) and we haven't managed to nail it down.
However, they tell me that it's very difficult to catch it at the right time
because the levels are only down for a short time.

Do you get them after a meal? In case, it might be faster emptying of
stomach than normal which is the reason.