Tire wear on trikes

[Bikertriker]

The front tires were toed in about a 1/4" when I bought it and noticed some of the wear. I set them
to about .06"TI before riding. Perhaps a TT wears its tires differently than a CTS or you ride it
differently than I do. Does the TT use 305 marathons? Dave

MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
>
> You need to check your alignment! I put 1,000 miles on a TT with no significant wear patterns (no
> flipping).

 

[John Riley]

Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:29:03 GMT, [email protected] (Mark van Gorkom) wrote:
>
> >
> >>IMO trikes will be much better when specific trike tires are made available with flat treads.
> >
> >Vredestein is working on them (after being pestered for a few years by some velomobile builders).
>
> I've heard some people say that radial tires would be a big improvement. Is this true? And will
> the Vredestein velomobile tire be radial?

From Sheldon Brown:

"Radial tires have been tried for bicycles, but they tend to be too floppy from side to side. This
floppiness feels quite unpleasant in actual riding--much like the feel of a grossly underinflated
tire." quote from here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#construction

JR

 

[Dave Larrington]

Ken Kobayashi wrote:

> I've heard some people say that radial tires would be a big improvement. Is this true? And will
> the Vredestein velomobile tire be radial?

Certainly as far as rolling resistance is concerned. IIRC no normal bike tyre has ever got anywhere
near the radials made by Paul Rinkowski in this respect.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Chalo]

MLB <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've been told that it's patently silly to think that bicycle tires with their 100lb load (each)
> are in any way similar to a auto tire supporting 1000lbs each and going 3 times as fast. Why
> would a radial construction matter in the least? TREAD doesn't even matter at the loads and
> speeds of biking.

Bias-ply construction is great at making casings with round cross-sections, like those of bicycles
or vintage cars and motorbikes. Round tire cross-section is valuable for vehicles that steer by
camber thrust (those that turn by leaning). Bias-ply tire construction is complementary to the
asymmetrical crawling action of a leaned-over contact patch describing an arc.

Bias ply tires also have some unavoidable shearing action between plies when they carry weight,
which causes rolling resistance.

Car tires have adopted radial casing construction because its greater compliance and lack of
internal shear allows longer wear, less rolling resistance, and superior traction in vehicles whose
wheels don't lean. Flat circumferential belts added to the casing help maintain its flat profile for
a wider, more stable contact patch.

Since a 3- or 4-wheeled HPVs act upon their tires in much the same way as cars, they stand to reap
the same benefits of radial and/or belted tire construction that cars do.

It seems a logical measure to replace lean-steer bias-ply tires on multi-track HPVs with more
appropriate radial ones if such things become available.

Chalo Colina

 

[Mlb]

[email protected] (Chalo) wrote in news:[email protected]:

> MLB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've been told that it's patently silly to think that bicycle tires with their 100lb load (each)
>> are in any way similar to a auto tire supporting 1000lbs each and going 3 times as fast. Why
>> would a radial construction matter in the least? TREAD doesn't even matter at the loads and
>> speeds of biking.
>
> Bias-ply construction is great at making casings with round cross-sections, like those of bicycles
> or vintage cars and motorbikes. Round tire cross-section is valuable for vehicles that steer by
> camber thrust (those that turn by leaning). Bias-ply tire construction is complementary to the
> asymmetrical crawling action of a leaned-over contact patch describing an arc.
>
> Bias ply tires also have some unavoidable shearing action between plies when they carry weight,
> which causes rolling resistance.
>
> Car tires have adopted radial casing construction because its greater compliance and lack of
> internal shear allows longer wear, less rolling resistance, and superior traction in vehicles
> whose wheels don't lean. Flat circumferential belts added to the casing help maintain its flat
> profile for a wider, more stable contact patch.
>
> Since a 3- or 4-wheeled HPVs act upon their tires in much the same way as cars, they stand to reap
> the same benefits of radial and/or belted tire construction that cars do.
>
> It seems a logical measure to replace lean-steer bias-ply tires on multi-track HPVs with more
> appropriate radial ones if such things become available.
>
> Chalo Colina
>

Some of that sounds logical, but you're still talking huge differences in weight carrying. "shearing
action" that happens with a 4,000 car moving 50 mph and cornering hard hardly compares to a bike
tire with a 100lbs each (or much less) or a trike with 3 wheels to divy up the load cornering at
15mph. Do ANY bike tires have multiple plys? Do you realize how much weight you would be adding?

 

[Rick Moll]

MLB wrote:
> ... Do ANY bike tires have multiple plys? Do you realize how much weight you would be adding?

The Continental TT 2000 and GP 3000 tires which I ride on my bents are all 5 ply tires (at least
that's what there literature claims).

Rick Moll

 

[Mlb]

Rick Moll <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> MLB wrote:
>> ... Do ANY bike tires have multiple plys? Do you realize how much weight you would be adding?
>
> The Continental TT 2000 and GP 3000 tires which I ride on my bents are all 5 ply tires (at least
> that's what there literature claims).
>
> Rick Moll
>

wow, that's wild. WOuld love to see them made. Can't imagine the process with that small a diameter.
I used to build auto tires. I "assumed" (uh oh) that bike tires were all molded.

 

[Chalo]

MLB <[email protected]> wrote:

> "shearing action" that happens with a 4,000 car moving 50 mph and cornering hard hardly compares
> to a bike tire with a 100lbs each (or much less) or a trike with 3 wheels to divy up the load
> cornering at 15mph.

That is true with respect to absolute magnitude of forces, both at the contact patch and within the
casing. Remember though that car tires weigh approximately 50X what bicycle tires do, and the
specific local forces within the tire casings are comparable.

> Do ANY bike tires have multiple plys? Do you realize how much weight you would be adding?

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. All bicycle clinchers AFAIK are bias-ply construction.
All bias-ply tires have at least 2 plies; they are opposite diagonals to the direction of travel. A
true single-ply tire might be possible with radial construction but not with bias-ply.

Have a look inside any clincher you have handy: The visible cords all run oblique to the centerline
in one direction. The succeeding deeper layer must lay symmetrically opposite to the one you see for
the tire casing to hold its shape.

The shearing action I mention is chiefly between these opposing diagonal cords, because they try to
shift in different directions when a load is applied to a given point in the casing.

There are plenty of so-called "2-ply" tires on the market (really 2 pairs of bias plies); many
touring tires, all downhill mtb tires, and many flat-resistant road bike tires. Continental Top
Touring 2000 is the one I'm most familiar with. Its sidewalls are noticeably thicker and stiffer
than that of Conti MTB tires. It is a comparatively heavy tire but not extravagantly so, and its
weight is largely due to its deep rubber tread.

Chalo Colina

 

[Mlb]

> the one I'm most familiar with. Its sidewalls are noticeably thicker and stiffer than that of
> Conti MTB tires. It is a comparatively heavy tire but not extravagantly so, and its weight is
> largely due to its deep rubber tread.
>
> Chalo Colina
>

Very informative. Thanks

 

[Sticker Jim]

They don't necessarily have to wear as fast as you might think. One of the things to watch is
toe-in. This is rider adjustable and I have had best all-around luck/performance with about 1/8"
toe-in on my three trikes. Another factor in tire wear is how well the Ackerman compensation is set
up. This is quite likely non-adjustable on the majority of trikes by the average rider and can
result in one of the tires plowing/skidding slightly (or a lot) on turns. You can check the state of
the Ackerman compensation by getting on a smooth surface, turning hard at low speed, and without
pedalling, see how much noise the tires produce and how much you slow down in the turn. The more you
slow, and/or the more noise there is, the more the Ackerman comp. is off. Another factor is the tire
compound, and lastly, likely high on the list of importance, is your riding style.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Trike front tires obviously wear out quite fast. How many kilos can one expect out of them?
>
> --
> Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi