Tire / Brake question

dgk said:

I'm getting pretty good at fixing flats (thanks to, I think, Mark
Hickey who gave me the hint about squeezing the rest of the tire
inward to free up a bit of bead for that last push). But I find that

I

Quoted message said:

have to adjust the brakes a bit after putting the wheel back on
because it isn't centered quite the same as it was.

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

It's normal to have to tweak the centering screw after removing and
reinstalling the wheel. Don't worry about it.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

dgk said:

I'm getting pretty good at fixing flats (thanks to, I think, Mark
Hickey who gave me the hint about squeezing the rest of the tire
inward to free up a bit of bead for that last push). But I find that I
have to adjust the brakes a bit after putting the wheel back on
because it isn't centered quite the same as it was.

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

Most likely you're bumping the brake caliper as you remove/replace the wheel
(it's hard not to); I just re-center the pads by hand afterward (unlike Bob
with his fancy "centering screw" 🙂 ). A few quick lever-squeezes to make
sure still good; go ride.

Bill "so-fist-icated mechanic" S.

Even no-name shimano clones have centering screws. What kind of brakes
are you centering by hand, center pivots?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

a P.S. to the OP-- Unlike Bill and his fancy "levers", real men just
grab the ends of the cables and pull. (Sorry, I couldn't resist. <g>😉

dgk said:

I'm getting pretty good at fixing flats

Quoted message said:

But I find that I
have to adjust the brakes a bit after putting the wheel back on
because it isn't centered quite the same as it was.

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

You want to first make sure the wheel is centered in the frame. Then center
the brake calipers if needed.

It's possible you're not getting the wheel centered properly. Sight the gap
between the tire and each side of chainstays (rear) or fork blades (front)
before socking down on the quick release. Then make sure the wheel doesn't
shift when you tighten the QR.

If your wheel and dual pivot calipers were properly centered when you took
the wheel out, you should not have to adjust the brakes after re-installing
the wheel.

Art Harris

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 06:51:55 -0400, "Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

dgk said:

I'm getting pretty good at fixing flats

Quoted message said:

But I find that I
have to adjust the brakes a bit after putting the wheel back on
because it isn't centered quite the same as it was.

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

You want to first make sure the wheel is centered in the frame. Then center
the brake calipers if needed.

It's possible you're not getting the wheel centered properly. Sight the gap
between the tire and each side of chainstays (rear) or fork blades (front)
before socking down on the quick release. Then make sure the wheel doesn't
shift when you tighten the QR.

If your wheel and dual pivot calipers were properly centered when you took
the wheel out, you should not have to adjust the brakes after re-installing
the wheel.

Art Harris

That is a good idea. I'll check next time. With these new tires it
should be a long time.

Bob said:

Even no-name shimano clones have centering screws. What kind of brakes
are you centering by hand, center pivots?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

a P.S. to the OP-- Unlike Bill and his fancy "levers", real men just
grab the ends of the cables and pull. (Sorry, I couldn't resist. <g>😉

V brakes. There is a spring adjustment screw on each side. According
to Sheldon Brown, you tighten the one that is too close to the rim. I
think the rim on the rear tire is not exactly round. As it spins it
gets a bit closer and further from each brake pad. Maybe too much
banging on the streets of NYC. I had the wheel trued recently when I
broke a spoke so perhaps they did a less than optimal job. He did tell
me that the wheel was not in the best of shape.

It eventually comes down to what I want to put into the bike. It was
only $300 and will be one year old in early May. But I have put
2000-2500 miles on it. Do I want to spend $50 or more for a
replacement wheel? Maybe. The rest of the bike is in pretty good
shape.

I'd buy a better quality bike but I have to leave it outside while I
work and the more expensive the bigger the target for theft.

Bob said:

Even no-name shimano clones have centering screws. What kind of brakes
are you centering by hand, center pivots?

They're Ultegra. I didn't even /know/ about the centering screw (it's
really a bolt, yes?) until someone posted about a bike shop saying it needed
to keep the bike in order to adjust the brakes, as I really thought they
just pivoted on the main attachment bolt.

I agree about using the adjusting bolt for initial setup and home tuning,
but when I get a flat or just remove front wheel for a roof rack or
something, I just manually "eyeball" the pads in case the caliper got
bumped.

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Regards,
Bob Hunt

a P.S. to the OP-- Unlike Bill and his fancy "levers", real men just
grab the ends of the cables and pull. (Sorry, I couldn't resist. <g>😉

OK, as long as we're poking here, WHY ARE YOU QUOTING (NOT!) LIKE PETER
LATELY, BOB?!? (Ooops, I see you're using Google Groups; guess it's a bug
and not a feature? 🙂 )

Gonna go to my fancy yoga class in a bit, and then ride my fancy bike this
afternoon! Why? Suits my fancy, of course.

Bill "God, I /really am/ a roadie" S.

dgk said:

Bob said:

Even no-name shimano clones have centering screws. What kind of
brakes are you centering by hand, center pivots?

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V brakes.

OK, hold the phone! I had assumed (wrongly) we were talking about road bike
brakes. I *don't* adjust V-brakes by just centering the pads by hand,
mainly because it doesn't work.

Quoted message said:

There is a spring adjustment screw on each side. According
to Sheldon Brown, you tighten the one that is too close to the rim. I
think the rim on the rear tire is not exactly round. As it spins it
gets a bit closer and further from each brake pad. Maybe too much
banging on the streets of NYC. I had the wheel trued recently when I
broke a spoke so perhaps they did a less than optimal job. He did tell
me that the wheel was not in the best of shape.

Yes, sounds like the wheel is well out of true. Take it back or learn how
to do yourself. However, your initial question makes it sound like removing
the wheel affects the brake "symmetry" somehow. It shouldn't with V-brakes.

Reinsert wheel, squeeze the (fancy) lever a few times, spin the wheel, and
if you get some rub either adjust the brakes OR simply open some more cable
until the pads don't touch the rim. Then true the wheel and snug things up
later.

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It eventually comes down to what I want to put into the bike. It was
only $300 and will be one year old in early May. But I have put
2000-2500 miles on it. Do I want to spend $50 or more for a
replacement wheel? Maybe. The rest of the bike is in pretty good
shape.

Still say take the wheel back and tell 'em they didn't do a good job of
truing the wheel; that's probably all it is.

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I'd buy a better quality bike but I have to leave it outside while I
work and the more expensive the bigger the target for theft.

Unfortunately true (unlike that wheel! 🙂 ).

Good luck, BS (no, I mean it)

Bill said:

OK, as long as we're poking here, WHY ARE YOU QUOTING (NOT!) LIKE

PETER

Quoted message said:

LATELY, BOB?!? (Ooops, I see you're using Google Groups; guess it's a

bug

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and not a feature? 🙂 )

Yes, quoting with google is a pain. It seems the only option is to cut
and paste as I did above and that leaves too much room for error.
As for using the centering bolt/screw, I agree that it's primarily used
for initial set up and tuning but the OP seemed to be having a
difficult time. I was merely trying to reassure him that a need to
tweak the brakes isn't out of the ordinary, especially if the flat is
on the rear. It's much easier not to bump the caliper when changing a
front wheel than it is to avoid bumping the rear. On a rear wheel
change you are dealing with two sets of stays instead of just a pair of
fork legs, clearances are tighter, the dish of the wheel can be
visually deceptive, and you have the drivetrain to align as you slip
the chain back onto the cassette. All of that plus Mr. Murphy explains
why rear tires flat much more frequently than fronts. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob said:

Bill said:

OK, as long as we're poking here, WHY ARE YOU QUOTING (NOT!) LIKE
PETER LATELY, BOB?!? (Ooops, I see you're using Google Groups;
guess it's a bug and not a feature? 🙂 )

Yes, quoting with google is a pain. It seems the only option is to cut
and paste as I did above and that leaves too much room for error.
As for using the centering bolt/screw, I agree that it's primarily
used for initial set up and tuning but the OP seemed to be having a
difficult time. I was merely trying to reassure him that a need to
tweak the brakes isn't out of the ordinary, especially if the flat is
on the rear. It's much easier not to bump the caliper when changing a
front wheel than it is to avoid bumping the rear. On a rear wheel
change you are dealing with two sets of stays instead of just a pair
of fork legs, clearances are tighter, the dish of the wheel can be
visually deceptive, and you have the drivetrain to align as you slip
the chain back onto the cassette. All of that plus Mr. Murphy explains
why rear tires flat much more frequently than fronts. <g>

I agree with all of that...EXCEPT that the OP has since revealed he was
talking about V-brakes, which means we both wasted a bit o' bandwidth on
this one. (Well, we got your quoting straightened out, at least 🙂 )

Bill "fixer of things...mostly small and minor" S.

Quoted message said:

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

Try this:

1) Fit wheel into dropouts
2) Squeeze brake tight
3) Close quick release
4) Release brake

This technique can help fine-tune the centering of the wheel in the brakes.

Good luck!

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

Bill Sornson said:

Bob said:

Bill said:

OK, as long as we're poking here, WHY ARE YOU QUOTING (NOT!) LIKE
PETER LATELY, BOB?!? (Ooops, I see you're using Google Groups;
guess it's a bug and not a feature? 🙂 )

Yes, quoting with google is a pain. It seems the only option is to

cut

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and paste as I did above and that leaves too much room for error.
As for using the centering bolt/screw, I agree that it's primarily
used for initial set up and tuning but the OP seemed to be having a
difficult time. I was merely trying to reassure him that a need to
tweak the brakes isn't out of the ordinary, especially if the flat

is

Quoted message said:

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on the rear. It's much easier not to bump the caliper when changing

a

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front wheel than it is to avoid bumping the rear. On a rear wheel
change you are dealing with two sets of stays instead of just a

pair

Quoted message said:

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of fork legs, clearances are tighter, the dish of the wheel can be
visually deceptive, and you have the drivetrain to align as you

slip

Quoted message said:

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the chain back onto the cassette. All of that plus Mr. Murphy

explains

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Quoted message said:

why rear tires flat much more frequently than fronts. <g>

I agree with all of that...EXCEPT that the OP has since revealed he

was

Quoted message said:

talking about V-brakes, which means we both wasted a bit o' bandwidth

on

Quoted message said:

this one. (Well, we got your quoting straightened out, at least 🙂 )

Bill "fixer of things...mostly small and minor" S.

I'll worry about wasting bandwidth when I no longer see topics entitled
"I didn't believe it either but I tried it and made a gazillion
dollars!", posts that include the phrase "white penis power", or posts
with a sig.file longer than the post. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

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dgk wrote:

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...broke a spoke so perhaps they did a less than optimal

job. He did tell

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me that the wheel was not in the best of shape.

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It eventually comes down to what I want to put into the

bike. It was

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only $300 and will be one year old in early May. But I

have put

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2000-2500 miles on it. Do I want to spend $50 or more for

a

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replacement wheel? Maybe. The rest of the bike is in

pretty good

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shape.

Personally, I would (and have) replaced wheels in this
situation.
If you like the bike well enough, I'd stay with it. This is
especially true in an urban setting where a bike that looks a
little bit worn is perhaps less subject to theft. I'd guess
even Jobst couldn't make a $50 wheel last forever in a cold
weather climate with numerous potholes in the spring.

Based on my experience, a $300 bike doesn't come with very
good wheels. The majority of bikes in this price class are
very lightly ridden, so what's the point to putting a good
quality wheel on it? It would just jack up the cost.

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Still say take the wheel back and tell 'em they didn't do a

good job of

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truing the wheel; that's probably all it is.

Is it possible that their truing stand is poorly centered? I
have a Park stand, and when it arrived it was not centered
correctly -- in other words, when I put the wheel in one way,
the rim was closer to the left. When I put the wheel in the
other way, the rim was closer to the right. (I have since
adjusted the stand to eliminate this problem.) In a busy (or
maybe sloppy) shop in the spring they might have let their
truing stand get out of alignment.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:20:39 -0700, Chris Neary

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

Try this:

1) Fit wheel into dropouts
2) Squeeze brake tight
3) Close quick release
4) Release brake

This technique can help fine-tune the centering of the wheel in the brakes.

Good luck!

Definitely worth a try. But not this morning. Right now it works ok
and I'm getting ready to go to BikeNY. Bye now.

Mike Kruger said:

Based on my experience, a $300 bike doesn't come with very
good wheels. The majority of bikes in this price class are
very lightly ridden, so what's the point to putting a good
quality wheel on it? It would just jack up the cost.

My experience has been that cheap wheels are often strong enough, but
poorly assembled. Budget hybrid and MTB wheels often use pretty heavy
rims. If the spokes are evenly tightened and stress relieved, these
wheels are very durable.

In article <[email hidden]>, dgk says...

Quoted message said:

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

I assume you putting the wheel in the frame when the bike is upside down. If so
after you turn the bike right side up just release and retighten the quick
release. Sometime when you do this you will feel the frame shift slightly on
the axel and the wheel will be in the correct position.

Or you can follow Jobst advice and never turn the bike upside down.

Ed who? said:

Quoted message said:

Is that normal or am I somehow managing to not center the wheel
correctly? It just goes into the frame and I tighten the quick
release. I can't imagine how I can get that wrong.

Quoted message said:

I assume you putting the wheel in the frame when the bike is upside
down. If so after you turn the bike right side up just release and
retighten the quick release. Sometime when you do this you will
feel the frame shift slightly on the axel and the wheel will be in
the correct position. Or you can follow Jobst advice and never turn
the bike upside down.

Don't leave the poor guy dangling, give him the link:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/upside-down.html

[email hidden]