Timing (newbie) Question

Al <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.198f372ffa4645f29896d3 @mayonews:

Quoted message said:

Do the non points people all finish with the same time...

Unless there is a split in the field, ala the 15 seconds LA lost in the last day.

Quoted message said:

...or is it just considered an impossibility to make up that much time on a flat stage... or
something else? Thanks, Al

Yes, it is virtually impossible for a GC contender to make up a signifigant portion of time on the
last stage as they are *very* heavily marked.

- Boyd S.

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.199189aaf8e7487e9896d6@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

I would think that the organizers would structure the stages to somehow increase the odds that the
final outcome could be determined in Paris for the GC as well as the sprints for publicity
purposes if nothing else.

Do this: go to cyclingnews.comtour03Open ↗ and check out the profiles and
time gaps for each of the stages. What you'll find is that the only place where GC contenders make
up time is on mountain stages and on TT's, not on flat stages. Flat stages are basically the domain
of the sprinters' teams (with the exception of the predictably aberrant stage 18) and on flat stages
the pack nearly always finishes in the same time.

Now, here's what you need to know about Paris (if you don't already): the geography of the Ile de
France is basically pretty darn flat. You know that cat 4 hill they found for the last day? They had
to look hard to find one. Unless they make the last day a TT, the final GC outcome won't be
determined in Paris. It can't. It's too flat.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.199189aaf8e7487e9896d6@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

I would think that the organizers would structure the stages to somehow increase the odds that
the final outcome could be determined in Paris for the GC as well as the sprints for publicity
purposes if nothing else.

Do this: go to cyclingnews.comtour03Open ↗ and check out the profiles
and time gaps for each of the stages. What you'll find is that the only place where GC contenders
make up time is on mountain stages and on TT's, not on flat stages. Flat stages are basically the
domain of the sprinters' teams (with the exception of the predictably aberrant stage 18) and on
flat stages the pack nearly always finishes in the same time.

Now, here's what you need to know about Paris (if you don't already): the geography of the Ile de
France is basically pretty darn flat. You know that cat 4 hill they found for the last day? They
had to look hard to find one. Unless they make the last day a TT, the final GC outcome won't be
determined in Paris. It can't. It's too flat.

Thanks, that helps a bunch. One more question - by what criteria do they determine if the pack has
the same time... i.e., what degree of seperation is necessary between groups for there to be a time
distinction made between them?

Thanks, Al

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1991a0a9d9842ee29896d7@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, that helps a bunch. One more question - by what criteria do they determine if the pack has
the same time... i.e., what degree of seperation is necessary between groups for there to be a
time distinction made between them?

No one, except the officials, really know. Sometimes the gap is a second, sometimes two, sometimes
three. It's a judgement call and nobody gets to second-guess the officials.

1 second.

you're welcome GK

Al said:

Thanks, that helps a bunch. One more question - by what criteria do they determine if the pack has
the same time... i.e., what degree of seperation is necessary between groups for there to be a
time distinction made between them?

Thanks, Al

In article said:

1 second.

you're welcome GK

But it's not always enforced. This was something Phil Ligget mentioned during the Tour coverage.

-WG

Quoted message said:

Al said:

Thanks, that helps a bunch. One more question - by what criteria do they determine if the pack
has the same time... i.e., what degree of seperation is necessary between groups for there to be
a time distinction made between them?

Thanks, Al

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1991a0a9d9842ee29896d7@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, that helps a bunch. One more question - by what criteria do they determine if the pack
has the same time... i.e., what degree of seperation is necessary between groups for there to be
a time distinction made between them?

No one, except the officials, really know. Sometimes the gap is a second, sometimes two, sometimes
three. It's a judgement call and nobody gets to second-guess the officials.

Another point: time gaps are technically from the first rider across the line in the leading group
to the first rider across the line in the second group. So even if there's only a small gap between
the last rider in the first group and the first rider in the second group, the assigned time
differential can be quite large.

Andy Coggan (winner, Tour of Kansas City Stage Race, 1989...by 1 second!)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Al <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.198f372ffa4645f29896d3 @mayonews:

Quoted message said:

Do the non points people all finish with the same time...

Unless there is a split in the field, ala the 15 seconds LA lost in the last day.

Quoted message said:

...or is it just considered an impossibility to make up that much time on a flat stage... or
something else? Thanks, Al

Yes, it is virtually impossible for a GC contender to make up a signifigant portion of time on the
last stage as they are *very* heavily marked.

- Boyd S.

Okay, thanks. But it still strikes me as odd that they don't at least try, unless the possibility
exists that as a result of their effort they risk dropping further down in the ranking somehow. I
guess it'll become more clear to me as I learn more about professional cycling.

I would think that the organizers would structure the stages to somehow increase the odds that the
final outcome could be determined in Paris for the GC as well as the sprints for publicity purposes
if nothing else. Although I guess that would likely increase the odds that an otherwise well crafted
GC strategy could go down the tubes for one silly mistake or crash from mixing it up with the
sprinters - which would be a shame.

- Al