Times article

Tim Steele said:

Have you read this astonishing article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/ar...

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment form)
might help.

Tim

What's astonishing about it?

He's expressing his opinion on bad behaviour. The reactions to it are
predictable- outrage at anyone daring to criticise cyclists. You'd get
a better press if you were more willing to admit blame instead of
being so thin-skinned .

In article <aa290c5d-62b6-413f-83af-bd9951e000a8
@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, spindrift
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

WTF is "cyclist height" anyway? Bout the same as a van, range rover,
lorry....

On my bikes the handlebars are at about the same level as when I'm
standing with my arms by my sides. Of course, pedestrians have the time
to stuff a can in the hedge, while cyclists are usually going too fast
....

Rob Morley said:

In article <aa290c5d-62b6-413f-83af-bd9951e000a8
@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, spindrift
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

WTF is "cyclist height" anyway? Bout the same as a van, range rover,
lorry....

On my bikes the handlebars are at about the same level as when I'm
standing with my arms by my sides.  Of course, pedestrians have the time
to stuff a can in the hedge, while cyclists are usually going too fast
...

So he sees fly tipping, assumes it's from cyclists although nobody saw
the litterer, then says cyclists should be decapitated.

Fly tipping's our fault now??

In article <48f4ae91-7dee-489e-9e86-
[email hidden]>, spindrift
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <aa290c5d-62b6-413f-83af-bd9951e000a8
@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, spindrift
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

WTF is "cyclist height" anyway? Bout the same as a van, range rover,
lorry....

On my bikes the handlebars are at about the same level as when I'm
standing with my arms by my sides.  Of course, pedestrians have the time
to stuff a can in the hedge, while cyclists are usually going too fast
...

So he sees fly tipping, assumes it's from cyclists although nobody saw
the litterer, then says cyclists should be decapitated.

Fly tipping's our fault now??

Eh?

Rob Morley said:

In article <750287a5-76c3-4e75-8725-
[email hidden]>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

What's astonishing about it?

Incitement to criminal acts that could result in the death of an
innocent victim, perhaps.  [censored].

Make that "thin-skinned, paranoid and thick as pig [censored]" then

O...

Quoted message said:

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment form)
might help.

Tim

Actually I really want to know exactly which lane this is, because I I
am always out in Derbyshire and I could go and investigate.

Can anyone help with the location?

It seems highly unlikely to me that it was cyclists that dropped the
stuff.Apart from the fact that in forty years I have no recollection
of seeing any cyclist throw anything (except in a proper race ) it
doesn't sound like the sort of stuff cyclists in general use.How do
you open a can on a bike?

As for wire traps, words are not enough.Was he drunk when he wrote
that article?

TerryJ

Sir Jeremy said:

Tim Steele said:

Have you read this astonishing article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/ar...

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment
form) might help.

Tim

What's astonishing about it?

He's expressing his opinion on bad behaviour. The reactions to it are
predictable- outrage at anyone daring to criticise cyclists.

No problem with criticism. The outrage is at him saying that he wants to
kill cyclists.

Quoted message said:

You'd get a better press if you were more willing to admit blame instead of
being so thin-skinned .

Blame for what? He didn't actually SEE who threw the drink cans, he just
made an assumption based on precisely nothing other than his own prejudice.
And sorry for being thin skinned, the skin on my neck is no match for a
piece of piano wire - is yours?

--

Nigel

On 27/12/2007 13:59, Sir Jeremy said,

Quoted message said:

He's expressing his opinion on bad behaviour. The reactions to it are
predictable- outrage at anyone daring to criticise cyclists. You'd get
a better press if you were more willing to admit blame instead of
being so thin-skinned .

Do you think that if he suggested it would be a good idea to decapitate
Moslems or gays or Jews or BNP supporters that the article would even
have been allowed to be published?

You're obviously not a cyclist yourself - why are you even here?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Rob Morley said:

In article <750287a5-76c3-4e75-8725-
[email hidden]>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

What's astonishing about it?

Incitement to criminal acts that could result in the death of an
innocent victim, perhaps.  [censored].

Barbed wire at head height will scrape across the eyeball.

Tim Steele said:

Have you read this astonishing article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment
form) might help.

Tim

My comment on the forum isn't up yet, but I sent this to
[email hidden]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir

I'm writing to you with regard to today's article in the Times Online
written by Matthew Parris entitled "What's smug and deserves to be
decapitated?" Well, having read the article it appears that it's me.

I'm well used to being the subject of derision for my choice of clothes for
cycling (the fact is that my lycra is practical and comfortable, if Mr.
Parris doesn't like it then that's his problem not mine), the fact that my
helmet may look ridiculous (again, it's my choice to wear it or not) and
even, it seems, what I eat and drink while riding. It now appears that
derision is not enough, Mr. Parris wants me dead. I'm sorry, but I take
this rather personally and I wonder whether some legal line has been crossed
here - are journalists actually allowed to write that they think that
certain groups of people should be killed?

I realise that this article may have been meant in a toungue-in-cheek
manner, although there was nothing apart from the extreme nature of the
subject matter to indicate this. If it was meant as a joke then it was in
very poor taste in view of the cyclists who have been injured by wire
stretched across their path. In fact the "all a bit of fun" excuse which is
often trotted out to justify this sort of thing is the same as you would
have heard the likes of Bernard Manning using to justify his "humour".
Actually I think that Manning wasn't as bad as Parris because all he did was
make offensive jokes about blacks, Jews and homosexuals, I don't think that
he actually called for them to be killed.

I'm sure that there are any number of reasons why this article is considered
to be acceptable in your fine and well respected publication, however it
appears to me that if you are a member of the media elite with full weight
of the PC establishment behind you, then you can get away with murder - or
at least approving of it.

Nigel Randell
Derbyshire cyclist

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will post any reply that comes back

--

Nigel

TerryJ said:

O...

Quoted message said:

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment
form) might help.

Tim

Actually I really want to know exactly which lane this is, because I I
am always out in Derbyshire and I could go and investigate.

Can anyone help with the location?

It seems highly unlikely to me that it was cyclists that dropped the
stuff.Apart from the fact that in forty years I have no recollection
of seeing any cyclist throw anything (except in a proper race ) it
doesn't sound like the sort of stuff cyclists in general use.How do
you open a can on a bike?

As for wire traps, words are not enough.Was he drunk when he wrote
that article?

TerryJ

I assumed that he was the type who couldn't stand poking his nose further
from London than the M25, but then I found out that he was MP for West
Derbys. and still has a home in the county.

We're dooooooomed!

--

Nigel

"Tim Steele" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have you read this astonishing article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment form)
might help.

Tim

Yes, shame on him. (This article has certainly has changed my opinion of
him.)
I would not want to see anybody killed, maimed, injured or insulted, no
matter which class or group of species they belong to!
Fred

Paul Boyd said:

Do you think that if he suggested it would be a good idea to decapitate
Moslems or gays or Jews or BNP supporters that the article would even
have been allowed to be published?

It appears (from spam in uk.transport.london) that another journo is
being investigated by the police for incitement to racial harassment
for pointing out that gang mambers involved in a violent incident were
all black.

If this is true, and the criteria for incitement to murder are
anywhere near as rigorous, Mr Parris clearly has a case to answer.
Maybe a police force that has had to investigate a real wire across a
path incident would be interested in having a chat with him.

The point about these incidents is that people stupid enough to do
them will not often think of the idea for themselves. So the more
mentions in the press, the more incidents there will be.

And it's only luck (wrong height) and the perpetrators' incompetence
(wire or knots too weak) that have prevented fatalities up to now, in
my view.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Still, inciting murder is a pretty extreme response; and I simply do not
believe that, over all, cyclists litter disproportionately.

I don't think they do, either. Where I live, there's much litter and
virtually no cyclists.

Does a lot of it have McD's logos on it? There's so much more rubbish
around the streets here since they came to town.

Paul Boyd said:

On 27/12/2007 13:59, Sir Jeremy said,

Quoted message said:

He's expressing his opinion on bad behaviour. The reactions to it are
predictable- outrage at anyone daring to criticise cyclists. You'd get
a better press if you were more willing to admit blame instead of
being so thin-skinned .

Do you think that if he suggested it would be a good idea to decapitate
Moslems or gays or Jews or BNP supporters that the article would even
have been allowed to be published?

You're obviously not a cyclist yourself - why are you even here?

--
Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

And if he'd suggested decapitating 4x4 drivers you'd agree with him?

"Sir Jeremy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

And if he'd suggested decapitating 4x4 drivers you'd agree with him?

When a practical method can be found...

In article <54b2303a-85db-4214-a649-20db4336b434
@v32g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <750287a5-76c3-4e75-8725-
[email hidden]>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

What's astonishing about it?

Incitement to criminal acts that could result in the death of an
innocent victim, perhaps.  [censored].

Make that "thin-skinned, paranoid and thick as pig [censored]" then

[censored].

spindrift said:

People who chuck litter are annoying, but motorway verges are covered
in [censored].

No cyclists on motorways....

I read this article on the train yesterday, and momentarily my anger
with First Great Western's pathetic service ("the train is cancelled
due to a temporary driver shortage" - translation: Some driver
couldn't be arsed to get out of bed after the holiday) was transferred
to Mr Parris.

The road verges with most litter are, surprisingly, the ones with most
motor traffic. I regularly use the A46 around the south of Coventry.
It's a fast dual carriageway, and the verges are a disgrace. There
are very few cyclists (I've never seen one), and no pedestrians. So
guess who throws the litter?

Ditto the A350 Chippenham bypass. Single carriageway, but still very
few cyclists and pedestrians. Lots of plastic bottles, McDonalds
litter etc.

His specific incitement to string a cable across the road is extremely
unpleasant. There have been too many instances of this (our own Mr
Colyer on the Bristol Bath cycle path, I seem to recall), and the last
thing we need is morons believing that such action is acceptable.
Need several letters to the Times.

Peter.

What I wrote is this, and it's on the web site :-

Change the word "cyclist" in your article, Mr Parris, to read "gay” or
"black" and you'll see the article for the nasty, violence-inciting rant it
is. For a man supposed to be a serious journalist, you have just joined the
gutter press. Do you really think it funny to incite murder, Mr Parris?
There are idiots out there who take words such as those you've written to
justify their violence towards others. You are a fool of the highest order.
In case you just haven't got it into your nasty brain just how bad your
hatred is, two friends of mine could have been killed by sort of actions you
incite. One was seriously injured by such a wire strung across a cycle path
and it left a nasty wound round his neck. Another was pushed off his bike by
the passenger of an overtaking car. My friend ended up in a ditch with
crushed vertebrae in his neck. He was lucky not to be made a quadriplegic:
or worse. No, Mr Parris, your article is not funny: it’s pathetic.

"Tim Steele" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have you read this astonishing article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece

If you feel as I do a letter to the Times (or filling in the comment form)
might help.

Tim

Thanks for pointing out this despicable little article Tim.

They seem to be having some trouble putting all the comments on; I put in my
five pen'orth last night, and it still hasn't appeared, and no, it wasn't
rude or offensive. It was certainly less rude and offensive than the
obnoxious Mr Parris.

I used to buy the Times.