Time to do v02max work?

whoawhoa said:

My theory was perhaps that my FT has rissen so high relative to my threshold that I'm not producing much acidosis during a 5 minute interval? Which had me thinking that I may need a block of v02max work if I am to continue raising threshold.

Could be many things, you'll have to wait until you do more L5 intervals (Only one workout is not a lot).

But on the principle, I am with you.

In fact, myself, I have never experimented that, except in the pool as a swimmer.

But I have often seen athletes lacking speed at one point in their season (especially in running). And it comes naturally, very easily.

Again, your story sounds like good news to me.

whoawhoa said:

It was a strange feeling. I was very fresh, and was turning quick lap times. During the interval, basically, it didn't "hurt" like what I have associated with these types of intervals. I was breathing fairly hard, but very little leg burning, drooling, blurry vision, etc. The last few minutes of the interval didn't feel appreciably harder than the first, and the final interval didn't feel especially hard. My theory was perhaps that my FT has rissen so high relative to my threshold that I'm not producing much acidosis during a 5 minute interval? Which had me thinking that I may need a block of v02max work if I am to continue raising threshold.

Personally, I don't find the first 2-3 L5 intervals that painful (4-min @ 1.11-1.12FT for me). Breathing is heavy for sure, and concentration is highly focused, but not a lot of burning and no drooling, grunting, etc. Now, just as L4 is a pretty broad range, so is L5, and there's a world of difference between 1.05FT and 1.2FT. If even the last interval on a 6x5 didn't feel especially hard, then you might be a little low in the range for that duration. You can either push a touch harder (it's easy to go over the edge without a PM, so really just a *touch*) or add a few more minutes in range (or take it easy to avoid burnout and/or overtraining 😉 ). If you get to the last interval and are still feeling spunky, then rip off another one.

Quick lap times are good. Sounds like FT is coming along nicely. 🙂 MTB racing starts pretty soon for you, no?

frenchyge said:

Personally, I don't find the first 2-3 L5 intervals that painful (4-min @ 1.11-1.12FT for me). Breathing is heavy for sure, and concentration is highly focused, but not a lot of burning and no drooling, grunting, etc. Now, just as L4 is a pretty broad range, so is L5, and there's a world of difference between 1.05FT and 1.2FT. If even the last interval on a 6x5 didn't feel especially hard, then you might be a little low in the range for that duration. You can either push a touch harder (it's easy to go over the edge without a PM, so really just a *touch*) or add a few more minutes in range (or take it easy to avoid burnout and/or overtraining 😉 ). If you get to the last interval and are still feeling spunky, then rip off another one.

Sounds good. I'm also thinking I'll stick with my original plan, save a v02max block for mid-late february and just keep up the maintenance stuff for now.

frenchyge said:

Quick lap times are good. Sounds like FT is coming along nicely. 🙂 MTB racing starts pretty soon for you, no?

Actually, my first race is a road race. I think I good test of FT will be a solo attempt in a pan-flat race with the crash 4's🙂

well said frenchy.

And whoawhoa, when doing 5's, if possible, do them always on the same course, fixed distance. And target descending times. You'll see.

whoawhoa said:

It was a strange feeling. I was very fresh, and was turning quick lap times. During the interval, basically, it didn't "hurt" like what I have associated with these types of intervals. I was breathing fairly hard, but very little leg burning, drooling, blurry vision, etc. The last few minutes of the interval didn't feel appreciably harder than the first, and the final interval didn't feel especially hard. My theory was perhaps that my FT has rissen so high relative to my threshold that I'm not producing much acidosis during a 5 minute interval? Which had me thinking that I may need a block of v02max work if I am to continue raising threshold.

It sounds to me that your FT is improved. What have you been doing during your two weekly interval sessions over the last 6 weeks?

whoawhoa said:

I think I good test of FT will be a solo attempt in a pan-flat race with the crash 4's🙂

Heh. I'm dreaming of solo breaks in my early races, too. Must be that time of year... 🙂

I've never seen a race where they *let* anything go off the front, so I'm guessing that you'll have to shred the field pretty bad before you're able to solo away at FT.

No, no, no, he needs to attack several times. Burn couple of matches. First 2 or 3 attacks he can keep his effort in control. Don't go crazy. Just to see if the pack is willing to chase. On the fourth one, pick a hill, or after another attack has been caught, he takes a flyer.

frenchyge said:

Heh. I'm dreaming of solo breaks in my early races, too. Must be that time of year... 🙂

I've never seen a race where they *let* anything go off the front, so I'm guessing that you'll have to shred the field pretty bad before you're able to solo away at FT.

frenchyge said:

Heh. I'm dreaming of solo breaks in my early races, too. Must be that time of year... 🙂

I've never seen a race where they *let* anything go off the front, so I'm guessing that you'll have to shred the field pretty bad before you're able to solo away at FT.

It's OT (and maybe I'll start a thread on this) but you've triggered a race strategy issue I have been mulling over recently. Let's say that one has more power than most, if not all, in his race. If there's a long climb, especially close to the finish (e.g., peterpen's thread), that's the obvious place to attack and take advantage of your extra power because the others lose their drafting advantage. But, let's say your race is a course without long climbs (e.g., Kansas🙂 ). Speaking purely physiologically (i.e., physiology reality trumps mental grit and determination), does one exploit his power advantage with a constant pacing strategy (e.g., FT pace) or with a surging pacing strategy (e.g., 120%FT for 5 minutes, followed by <100%FT for x minutes to recover, then again and again)? Of course, the sprinters will just sit in and keep their powder dry for the sprint. But, let's say sprinting is not your forte, which is the best strategy? Mind you, I'm not assuming I will be in this position. This is just a hypothetical question.

RapDaddyo said:

Speaking purely physiologically (i.e., physiology reality trumps mental grit and determination), does one exploit his power advantage with a constant pacing strategy (e.g., FT pace) or with a surging pacing strategy (e.g., 120%FT for 5 minutes, followed by <100%FT for x minutes to recover, then again and again)? Of course, the sprinters will just sit in and keep their powder dry for the sprint. But, let's say sprinting is not your forte, which is the best strategy?

I'm assuming that surges will absolutely be needed. By staying just under VO2max on the surges, and recovering just under FT during the recoveries, you'll be forcing the riders with lower FT's (and even the sprinters) to dig deeper and recover less each time until they're out of matches. That's what I meant in my comment that Whoawhoa may have to shred the field until there's not enough left to chase when he rides off at FT to the finish. The problem I see in all this is that after an attack or two, he'll have a bulls-eye on his back and no one else will help keep the pace high.

Let's get a new thread going. I've got some questions about the use and tracking of 'matches' in all of this.

frenchyge said:

I'm assuming that surges will absolutely be needed. By staying just under VO2max on the surges, and recovering just under FT during the recoveries, you'll be forcing the riders with lower FT's (and even the sprinters) to dig deeper and recover less each time until they're out of matches. That's what I meant in my comment that Whoawhoa may have to shred the field until there's not enough left to chase when he rides off at FT to the finish. The problem I see in all this is that after an attack or two, he'll have a bulls-eye on his back and no one else will help keep the pace high.

Let's get a new thread going. I've got some questions about the use and tracking of 'matches' in all of this.

Good idea. Why don't you start it. I'll use my VP pacing model to run some scenarios under different assumptions as to power deltas.