tiagra 9 speed STI shifter maintenance

Hi

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode? Anyone care to
offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for
a second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

I've never had one fail so I can't say whether that's a common mode or
not. You can try to strip the lever down to find the fault but I don't
think that spare parts are available from Shimano [1] to fix it.

Any 9-speed lever should work as a replacement, though. They all pull
the same amount of cable.

[1] http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_thread/thread/fb540205df2fbfc4/04592c68f9596b06?lnk=st&q=shimano+sti+parts&rnum=8#04592c68f9596b06

Cheers,

Mark

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode? Anyone care to
offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

tia
james

That reminds me I should give my Ultegra unit a good flush out. It has
the same problem from time to time. I think its some dirt jamming
something or some lube has dried and something seizes because after a
spray of WD40 it is fixed, sadly not permamently.

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode?

It is, By pulling the big lever outbaord, the small lever shifts
OK--very common. DON'T strip it down, you will never get it back
together. make sure the inner witre/housing/BB guikde are smooth and
clean. Flush the innards of the lever with a spray lube. If it is still
bad-warranty(2 years) or replace. Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

Anyone care to

Quoted message said:

offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

tia
james

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode? Anyone care to
offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

As others have said, there's not much point trying to strip these
things down. I've had a couple of sets of gear levers go in the same
way. I think it's just the ratchets and pawls wearing out. Sometimes a
good skoosh of lubricant will help for a while, but you'll need to
start saving your pennies for a new one, I'm afraid.

The Luggage

quote='Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode?

It is, By pulling the big lever outbaord, the small lever shifts
OK--very common. DON'T strip it down, you will never get it back
together. make sure the inner witre/housing/BB guikde are smooth and
clean. Flush the innards of the lever with a spray lube. If it is still
bad-warranty(2 years) or replace. Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

Anyone care to

Quoted message said:

offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

tia
james

[/quote]

I'd just add to Peter's comment that those Campy ergo levers plus rear der will work just fine with Shimano 9 spd cassettes. I've used both 9 spd Ergo and 10 spd Ergo with Shimano 9 spd. I like the 10 spd a little better, but either one will work. Veloce derailer plus Veloce Ergo were less expensive than Shimano. For the front derailer use anything as the left Ergo shifter is not indexed. I ride with smallish (46 or 48 tooth) chainwheels so a Shimano mountain front works for me.

Steve Shapiro

I've had the exact same problem with my tiagra 9spd rear shifter James.
The problem occured within 6 months of new, generally i found it
doesn't happen as much if i keep everything clean & change the gear
cables say every 6 months. The shifter is now 3.5 years old and has
got no worse. It happens very rarely now that i'm more on top of the
maintenance. good luck :-)

The Luggage said:

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode? Anyone care to
offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

As others have said, there's not much point trying to strip these
things down. I've had a couple of sets of gear levers go in the same
way. I think it's just the ratchets and pawls wearing out. Sometimes a
good skoosh of lubricant will help for a while, but you'll need to
start saving your pennies for a new one, I'm afraid.

The Luggage

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode?

It is, By pulling the big lever outbaord, the small lever shifts
OK--very common. DON'T strip it down, you will never get it back
together. make sure the inner witre/housing/BB guikde are smooth and
clean. Flush the innards of the lever with a spray lube. If it is still
bad-warranty(2 years) or replace. Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

I disagree. The decision to strip it down vs. getting a new one (if
it's past warranty) depends on how much your time is worth, and how
mechanically inclined you are. I've never yet met a road STI lever
that could not be repaired such that shifting functionality is as good
as new (assuming no internal parts broke). All such repairs are still
going strong, past the 10K mi. mark. A repair such as this should take
most people no more than 30-45 minutes once the lever is off the bike.
The Shimano Service Instructions even provides info to separate the
lever from the lever body, which is generally about as far as one needs
to go in such instances.

Quoted message said:

Anyone care to

Quoted message said:

offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

tia
james

You have absolutely nothing to lose (except time) to strip it down and
re-lube it. Generally these levers get stuck because the grease is
gone and the shift pod is left with the binders that was in the grease.
The prawls get stuck in this gunk and have difficulty engaging. The
only tools you should need to accomplish disassembly are allen keys,
and maybe a screwdriver.

I do *not* recommend the WD-40 flush as a permanent fix. Once that
evaporates (and it will do so reasonably quickly), you're pretty much
stuck with the same issue. The WD-40 flush however, is a good sanity
check to determine whether your levers are good candidates for
restoration.

- Take the levers apart from the brake lever body (hooded part) as
instructed by Shimano Service Instructions.
- Use compressed air to blow away any residual gunk in the shifting
mechanism. You can use the compressed air cans available at office
supply stores if you don't have a compressor. Use qtips or whatever
other tools to remove as much gunk from the shift mechanism as
possible. If you're really in an adventurous mood, soak the lever body
in kerosene. If you do this you probably want to remove the rubber
hoods first. Use compressed air to dry out the shift mechanism
afterwards.
- Apply about 5 drops of oil (like Phil Wood Tenacious) into the shift
mechanism. Cycle thru shifts a few times to make sure oil penetrates
the shift mechanism.
- Use a synthetic grease (like Phil Wood) and lube all moving parts
inside the shift mechanism. Use a grease injector if you have to.
Again cycle thru shift mechanism a few times to make sure the grease
gets distributed evenly in the shift mechanism.
- Verify correct operation by shifting to each of the detents. If this
stage is successful, you may reassemble the lever back onto the lever
body as instructed by Shimano Service Instructions. Wipe off any
excess oil and grease. Make sure the springs in the shift mechanism are
inside the right places when you reassemble. If the levers do not
pass test, repeat above two steps.
- Mount the lever back onto the handlebars. Lever may drip oil for
days, so make sure you have a rag on ground beneath lever to catch
excess oil. Wipe any excess oil from levers diligently.
- Enjoy your good as new levers for the next 10K miles 🙂

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode?

It is, By pulling the big lever outbaord, the small lever shifts
OK--very common. DON'T strip it down, you will never get it back
together. make sure the inner witre/housing/BB guikde are smooth and
clean. Flush the innards of the lever with a spray lube. If it is still
bad-warranty(2 years) or replace. Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

I disagree. The decision to strip it down vs. getting a new one (if
it's past warranty) depends on how much your time is worth, and how
mechanically inclined you are. I've never yet met a road STI lever
that could not be repaired such that shifting functionality is as good
as new (assuming no internal parts broke). All such repairs are still
going strong, past the 10K mi. mark. A repair such as this should take
most people no more than 30-45 minutes once the lever is off the bike.
The Shimano Service Instructions even provides info to separate the
lever from the lever body, which is generally about as far as one needs
to go in such instances.

Quoted message said:

Anyone care to

Quoted message said:

offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for a
second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

tia
james

You have absolutely nothing to lose (except time) to strip it down and
re-lube it. Generally these levers get stuck because the grease is
gone and the shift pod is left with the binders that was in the grease.
The prawls get stuck in this gunk and have difficulty engaging. The
only tools you should need to accomplish disassembly are allen keys,
and maybe a screwdriver.

I do *not* recommend the WD-40 flush as a permanent fix. Once that
evaporates (and it will do so reasonably quickly), you're pretty much
stuck with the same issue. The WD-40 flush however, is a good sanity
check to determine whether your levers are good candidates for
restoration.

- Take the levers apart from the brake lever body (hooded part) as
instructed by Shimano Service Instructions.
- Use compressed air to blow away any residual gunk in the shifting
mechanism. You can use the compressed air cans available at office
supply stores if you don't have a compressor. Use qtips or whatever
other tools to remove as much gunk from the shift mechanism as
possible. If you're really in an adventurous mood, soak the lever body
in kerosene. If you do this you probably want to remove the rubber
hoods first. Use compressed air to dry out the shift mechanism
afterwards.
- Apply about 5 drops of oil (like Phil Wood Tenacious) into the shift
mechanism. Cycle thru shifts a few times to make sure oil penetrates
the shift mechanism.
- Use a synthetic grease (like Phil Wood) and lube all moving parts
inside the shift mechanism. Use a grease injector if you have to.
Again cycle thru shift mechanism a few times to make sure the grease
gets distributed evenly in the shift mechanism.
- Verify correct operation by shifting to each of the detents. If this
stage is successful, you may reassemble the lever back onto the lever
body as instructed by Shimano Service Instructions. Wipe off any
excess oil and grease. Make sure the springs in the shift mechanism are
inside the right places when you reassemble. If the levers do not
pass test, repeat above two steps.
- Mount the lever back onto the handlebars. Lever may drip oil for
days, so make sure you have a rag on ground beneath lever to catch
excess oil. Wipe any excess oil from levers diligently.
- Enjoy your good as new levers for the next 10K miles 🙂

in message <[email hidden]>, The

Luggage (') said:

Quoted message said:

The right hand (ie rear derailleur) shifter sometimes fails to engage
the ratchet when I am downshifting (ie to a bigger cog). When I press
the lever it just moves with minimal resistance and does nothing.
Usually after a couple of pushes it engages and thern shifts ok but
sometimes it takes longer. When it is stuck in this mode I can still
upshift with the other paddle. I can occaisionally reproduce it on
demand by randomly down and upshifting.

Can anyone tell me if this is a common failure mode? Anyone care to
offer any advice on stripping the shifter down? If I was to look for
a second hand unit are theer any issues with mix and matching from the
shimano range beyond appearance and number of cogs (is 9-speed
compatible with anything else for shifting distance)

As others have said, there's not much point trying to strip these
things down. I've had a couple of sets of gear levers go in the same
way. I think it's just the ratchets and pawls wearing out. Sometimes a
good skoosh of lubricant will help for a while, but you'll need to
start saving your pennies for a new one, I'm afraid.

By contrast, Campagnolo ones are fairly easy to strip, and every last
little bit is available as a spare part at reasonable cost. You pays
your money and you makes your choice...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This mind intentionally left blank ]

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

[email hidden] wrote:

`<snip STI shifter ratchet not catching>

Quoted message said:

... Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

I am a bit torn with prices. New tiagra levers come to GBP105. New
mirage levers and rear mech come to GBP77 plus I will need new cables,
probbaly at leats some new outers, new bar tape and more work to fit it
all. On the plus side I lose the simano gear cabel run at the
shifters, I get an excuse to change to a long/medium cage mech which
will allow me to use a bigger max cog size (I presume campy mechs have
an equivalent to the shimano b screw adjustment) plus i get easier to
maintain shifters. Sheldon Brown and Chris Juden both seem a little
equivoical on exactly how good the indexing will be with a shimnao
cassette/ campy shifters and mech combo will be. Anyone got any
practical experience to share?

Also, I was checking out a sora shifter today and it looks to me that
you can only upshift from the hoods, not from the drops. Is that right?
Is there a similar limitation on ergopower? What is the shifting
action with ergopower?

I think I will probbaly try stripping/lubing the shifter as I have
little to lose

tia
james

Quoted message said:

I am a bit torn with prices. New tiagra levers come to GBP105. New
mirage levers and rear mech come to GBP77 plus I will need new cables,
probbaly at leats some new outers, new bar tape and more work to fit
it all.

New Campag and Shimano levers normally come with a full set of cables and
stops.

Quoted message said:

On the plus side I lose the simano gear cabel run at the
shifters, I get an excuse to change to a long/medium cage mech which
will allow me to use a bigger max cog size (I presume campy mechs have
an equivalent to the shimano b screw adjustment)

They do. On the latest mechs it's in a different place and turns the
other way, but does the same job. There's a limit to how far it will go,
though.

Quoted message said:

plus i get easier to
maintain shifters.

To be fair, they will need that maintenance if you ride a lot of miles and
shift a lot per mile. That's the price you pay for a shifting mechanism
that allows you to change up more than one gear at once (with Mirage model
and up) as the springs wear out. ("Change up" = shift to smaller
sprocket). This rapid upshifting is very useful, by the way -- it's as
near to instant as anything could be; shifts to whatever gear you select
before you have let go of the button.

............

Quoted message said:

Also, I was checking out a sora shifter today and it looks to me that
you can only upshift from the hoods, not from the drops. Is that
right?

It is a bit of a stretch!

Quoted message said:

Is there a similar limitation on ergopower?

No. Depending on length of your thumbs, model of handlebars and position
of levers on bars, you can shift in both directions with Ergo from the
drops too. I think most users manage to hook their thumbs up okay. It's
easy enough for me with 3T Morphe bars. I think the buttons are placed
more further forwards/lower than Sora's.

Quoted message said:

What is the shifting action with ergopower?

Lever behind brake lever shifts to larger sprockets, thumb button to
smaller, both by one or more clicks at once by pressing the lever/button
as far as you wish, sweeping through the clicks. Mirage+ front shifters
are micro-indexed -- several clicks per chainring shift -- making it
compatible with all front mechs and chainsets and allows trimming.

The action of the thumb buttons feel quite heavy and stiff when Ergos are
new, but this softens as they wear in... and out. Frankly, the shifting
is all more clunky and less luxurious than STI, but that's Italian versus
Japanese design for you -- each have their advantages in other ways. I
think it's best to choose on the basis of which brand feels most
comfortable to you: to hold, brake and shift.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

[email hidden] wrote:

`<snip STI shifter ratchet not catching>

Quoted message said:

... Another option is Campagnolo, levers
and a rear der, that can be maintaned by taking them apart.

I am a bit torn with prices. New tiagra levers come to GBP105. New
mirage levers and rear mech come to GBP77 plus I will need new cables,

New Campagnolo levers come with a cable kit.

Quoted message said:

probbaly at leats some new outers, new bar tape and more work to fit it
all. On the plus side I lose the simano gear cabel run at the
shifters, I get an excuse to change to a long/medium cage mech which
will allow me to use a bigger max cog size (I presume campy mechs have
an equivalent to the shimano b screw adjustment) plus i get easier to
maintain shifters. Sheldon Brown and Chris Juden both seem a little
equivoical on exactly how good the indexing will be with a shimnao
cassette/ campy shifters and mech combo will be. Anyone got any
practical experience to share?

Also, I was checking out a sora shifter today and it looks to me that
you can only upshift from the hoods, not from the drops. Is that right?

That is correct. In spite of the gent that said to take STI apart, I am
fairly 'mechanically inclined' and I have tried to take STI apart,
completely, and reassemble and I cannot do it. Just taking some covers
off and such to spray lube is not really taking the thing apart, ala
ERGO.

ERGO thumb butto is easily reachable from the drops Sora thumb button
is not unless you have thumbs 4-5 inches long.

Quoted message said:

Is there a similar limitation on ergopower? What is the shifting
action with ergopower?

I think I will probbaly try stripping/lubing the shifter as I have
little to lose

tia
james

I'm waiting to see what the SRAM ones are like when they are finally
available.

...d

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Also, I was checking out a sora shifter today and it looks to me that
you can only upshift from the hoods, not from the drops. Is that right?

Pass.

Quoted message said:

Is there a similar limitation on ergopower?

No, definitely not.

Quoted message said:

What is the shifting
action with ergopower?

You sweep the big lever in with the fingers to shift to larger cogs. It
can be swept at least three cogs at one move, people with larger hands
can sweep more; you may find you can sweep one more from the hoods than
from the drops. You click the small side lever down with your thumb to
drop down to smaller cogs; again, you can click through several cogs in
one move, about four with my relatively small hands, more with bigger;
no difference on the drops from on the hoods.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.

email hidden said:

Sheldon Brown and Chris Juden both seem a little
equivoical on exactly how good the indexing will be with a shimnao
cassette/ campy shifters and mech combo will be. Anyone got any
practical experience to share?

CAmpy 9 and 10 shifts Shimano 9 fine. Ten may be a bit easier to
adjust. With Campy 10, you can shift Campy 10, Shimano 9, and Shimano
10. Should you keep your Shimano rear derailleur, you can shift
Shimano 8 with C10.

My tandem used C9 shifters for Shimano 9 and has been doing so for
years. My wife's 1990 SLX Fuso Lux with Chorus 10 ergo, shifts C10,
13/29 and S9, 13/32. All I need do is increase the derailleur cable
tension by 2 turns.

My tiagra levers seemed to [censored] out similar to that described above. I
was sure they were toast after reading the posts here. Took my bike to
my friend the mech. New housing & some lube & problem solved now for 2
seasons. It pays to know someone who wants to help vs. someone who's
goal is to make a new convert.

David Martin said:

I'm waiting to see what the SRAM ones are like when they are finally
available.

..d

Little more info on these. When you push the lever so far it
essentially 'selects' whether the der goes one direction or the other.
But RELEASING the lever causes the der to shift, not pushing the lever.
That's gotta be a strong spring, that will 'pull' the shifter one way
or another, as opposed to 'finger force' doing it.

Quoted message said:

My tiagra levers seemed to [censored] out similar to that described above. I
was sure they were toast after reading the posts here. Took my bike to
my friend the mech. New housing & some lube & problem solved now for 2
seasons. It pays to know someone who wants to help vs. someone who's
goal is to make a new convert.

tee heee...there are only two types of STI levers. Those that have
failed and those that will.

Peter whenever you decide to retire from the bike biz. You have a great
future awaiting you here in the south as a Baptist Preacher : )