Threshold

Kovach_89 said:

I want to know what is threshold and can some one explain me how to calculate threshold?thanks

You've asked a bigger question than you probably know 🙂

The term "threshold" by itself and without reference to a training system is pretty meaningless. Add some more info and it starts to become useful but only if you make sure others use the same system. Here's some examples of various thresholds:

• Functional Threshold Power (FTP). This is based on Dr. Coggan's power based system and is defined as the average power you can sustain for a long (50 minutes to an hour) effort on a day when you're well rested and highly motivated. It is a very good estimate of the power you should be able to hold for a 40k (25 mile) time trial on a day when you're fresh and give it your all. It's also a good estimate of your one hour power. FTP is also your "functional" threshold in the sense that it doesn't attempt to tie it to underlying physical processes like blood lactate buildup or heart rate, it's simply what you can hold for the duration regardless of why. This is the only threshold I really pay attention to anymore but there are a lot of folks that don't use or understand this approach and refer to other thresholds.
  
• LT or Lactate Threshold. This one appears in lots of fitness articles and is used by a lot of folks who measure heart rate. It is also used incorrectly from a strict exercise physiology definition most of the time. Technically your LT is the point where your blood lactate starts rising above a baseline level at a steeper exponential rate. This happens at fairly low exercise intensity for folks training seriously and doesn't really represent any sort of threshold that most of us care about from a performance standpoint. But the term is used in lots of training articles and books to describe something like FTP or what you can hold for an hour or so. That's a very confusing misuse of the term. Technically from an exercise physiology standpoint there is a blood lactate equivalent or near equivalent to FTP and it's called OBLA(Onset of Blood Lactate Accumulation) and is sometimes defined as the point where your blood lactate exceeds the 4 mmol concentration which is an average break point for long efforts.
  
• AT or Anaerobic Threshold. This one gets misused a lot as well. Most folks use this interchangeably and incorrectly with LT to define what you can do for a long effort like a one hour time trial. Technically you're still aerobic when you do VO2 max intervals which most folks can only sustain for 5 to 8 minutes. So AT should represent the longest VO2 max interval you can pull off, not what you can do for an hour. But again in a lot of training systems, especially those based on HR you'll see this term used to define your one hour pacing.
  
• VT or Ventilatory Threshold. This is where your breathing increases dramatically in response to greater efforts. It doesn't appear in cycle training articles as often but represents yet another "threshold".
  

I'm sure there are many more thresholds defined in various training plans so the key thing is to chose a system that makes sense to you, hopefully is based on some good science and figure out what they mean by the term.

Personally I'm a very big fan of power based training although I trained poorly with HR based systems for many years. My results with power based systems and an emphasis on raising FTP and VO2 max power have been really good.

If you want to try that kind of system you should buy a copy of Hunter and Coggan's book: amazon.com1931382794Open ↗ read it to figure out what they're talking about. If you're serious about training then you should also save up for a power meter but even if you don't the information in this book is really good.

You should also surf these forums for references to FTP and Sweet Spot Training(SST) and read the early pages of the It's Killing Me but... thread. That one is particularly motivational and explains a lot of this stuff.

Good luck,
Dave

A cheap way to get power is with the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine or Pro it has very little drift compared to other fluid trainers.

17mph=183.33w
17.1mph=185.53w
17.2mph=187.74w
17.3mph=189.98w
17.4mph=192.23w
17.5mph=194.51w
17.6mph=196.80w
17.7mph=199.12w
17.8mph=201.46w
17.9mph=203.81w
18mph=206.19w
18.1mph=208.59w
18.2mph=211.01w
18.3mph=213.45w
18.4mph=215.91w
18.5mph=218.39w
18.6mph=220.89w
18.7mph=223.42w
18.8mph=225.96w
18.9mph=228.53w
19mph=231.12w
19.1mph=233.73w
19.2mph=236.36w
19.3mph=239.02w
19.4mph=241.70w
19.5mph=244.40w
19.6mph=247.12w
19.7mph=249.86w
19.8mph=252.63w
19.9mph=255.42w
20mph=258.24w
20.1mph=261.07w
20.2mph=263.93w
20.3mph=266.81w
20.4mph=269.72w
20.5mph=272.65w
20.6mph=275.60w
20.7mph=278.58w
20.8mph=281.58w
20.9mph=284.60w
21mph=287.65w
21.1mph=290.72w
21.2mph=293.82w
21.3mph=296.94w
21.4mph=300.09w
21.5mph=303.26w
21.6mph=306.45w
21.7mph=309.67w
21.8mph=312.92w
21.9mph=316.19w
22mph=319.48w
22.1mph=322.80w
22.2mph=326.15w
22.3mph=329.52w
22.4mph=332.92w
22.5mph=336.34w
22.6mph=339.79w
22.7mph=343.26w
22.8mph=346.76w
22.9mph=350.29w
23mph=353.84w
23.1mph=357.42w
23.2mph=361.03w
23.3mph=364.66w
23.4mph=368.32w
23.5mph=372.01w
23.6mph=375.72w
23.7mph=379.46w
23.8mph=383.23w
23.9mph=387.03w
24mph=390.85w
24.1mph=394.70w
24.2mph=398.58w
24.3mph=402.48w
24.4mph=406.42w
24.5mph=410.38w
24.6mph=414.37w
24.7mph=418.39w
24.8mph=422.44w
24.9mph=426.51w
25mph=430.62w
25.1mph=434.75w......Lance Armstrong FTP maybe
25.2mph=438.91w
25.3mph=443.10w
25.4mph=447.32w
25.5mph=451.57w
25.6mph=455.85w
25.7mph=460.16w
25.8mph=464.49w
25.9mph=468.86w
26mph=473.26w

wiredued said:

A cheap way to get power is with the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine or Pro it has very little drift compared to other fluid trainers.

17mph=183.33w
17.1mph=185.53w
17.2mph=187.74w
17.3mph=189.98w
17.4mph=192.23w
17.5mph=194.51w
17.6mph=196.80w
17.7mph=199.12w
17.8mph=201.46w
17.9mph=203.81w
18mph=206.19w
18.1mph=208.59w
18.2mph=211.01w
18.3mph=213.45w
18.4mph=215.91w
18.5mph=218.39w
18.6mph=220.89w
18.7mph=223.42w
18.8mph=225.96w
18.9mph=228.53w
19mph=231.12w
19.1mph=233.73w
19.2mph=236.36w
19.3mph=239.02w
19.4mph=241.70w
19.5mph=244.40w
19.6mph=247.12w
19.7mph=249.86w
19.8mph=252.63w
19.9mph=255.42w
20mph=258.24w
20.1mph=261.07w
20.2mph=263.93w
20.3mph=266.81w
20.4mph=269.72w
20.5mph=272.65w
20.6mph=275.60w
20.7mph=278.58w
20.8mph=281.58w
20.9mph=284.60w
21mph=287.65w
21.1mph=290.72w
21.2mph=293.82w
21.3mph=296.94w
21.4mph=300.09w
21.5mph=303.26w
21.6mph=306.45w
21.7mph=309.67w
21.8mph=312.92w
21.9mph=316.19w
22mph=319.48w
22.1mph=322.80w
22.2mph=326.15w
22.3mph=329.52w
22.4mph=332.92w
22.5mph=336.34w
22.6mph=339.79w
22.7mph=343.26w
22.8mph=346.76w
22.9mph=350.29w
23mph=353.84w
23.1mph=357.42w
23.2mph=361.03w
23.3mph=364.66w
23.4mph=368.32w
23.5mph=372.01w
23.6mph=375.72w
23.7mph=379.46w
23.8mph=383.23w
23.9mph=387.03w
24mph=390.85w
24.1mph=394.70w
24.2mph=398.58w
24.3mph=402.48w
24.4mph=406.42w
24.5mph=410.38w
24.6mph=414.37w
24.7mph=418.39w
24.8mph=422.44w
24.9mph=426.51w
25mph=430.62w
25.1mph=434.75w......Lance Armstrong FTP maybe
25.2mph=438.91w
25.3mph=443.10w
25.4mph=447.32w
25.5mph=451.57w
25.6mph=455.85w
25.7mph=460.16w
25.8mph=464.49w
25.9mph=468.86w
26mph=473.26w

Whoa, mabe if Lance is sitting completely upright on his road bike, mabe not even then! I know Armstrong has ridden rolling Time Trials at over 33 mph(2002 TdF) and his watts were a little higher to, like 460ish.

I think thats more like the average speed in a mountain TT!!

On the indoor trainer sitting upright will not make much difference also the KKR is creating resistance that an average rider would face on a 1% grade so speeds will be lower than on flat ground. From what I have read Lance has a twenty minute power of 460 watts so I estimated 5% lower for hour power.

bikerboy said:

Whoa, mabe if Lance is sitting completely upright on his road bike, mabe not even then! I know Armstrong has ridden rolling Time Trials at over 33 mph(2002 TdF) and his watts were a little higher to, like 460ish.

Kovach_89 said:

I want to know what is threshold and can some one explain me how to calculate threshold?thanks

The concept of a threshold typically means that things happen differently on one side than on the other. In exercise, the body may respond in a predictable and linear fashion below a certain threshold intensity, but that response may increase very rapidly once the threshold intensity is exceeded. An athlete feels under control for long periods of exercise just below the threshold, but then quickly 'blows up' or 'pops' when forced to increase intensity by just a small amount (above the threshold).

Daveryanwyoming has provided several examples, and there are many more for other physiological functions.

IOW 105% of your FTP makes for a very short "threshold" bike ride.🙂

frenchyge said:

The concept of a threshold typically means that things happen differently on one side than on the other. In exercise, the body may respond in a predictable and linear fashion below a certain threshold intensity, but that response may increase very rapidly once the threshold intensity is exceeded. An athlete feels under control for long periods of exercise just below the threshold, but then quickly 'blows up' or 'pops' when forced to increase intensity by just a small amount (above the threshold).

Daveryanwyoming has provided several examples, and there are many more for other physiological functions.

daveryanwyoming said:

You've asked a bigger question than you probably know 🙂

The term "threshold" by itself and without reference to a training system is pretty meaningless. Add some more info and it starts to become useful but only if you make sure others use the same system. Here's some examples of various thresholds:

• Functional Threshold Power (FTP). This is based on Dr. Coggan's power based system and is defined as the average power you can sustain for a long (50 minutes to an hour) effort on a day when you're well rested and highly motivated. It is a very good estimate of the power you should be able to hold for a 40k (25 mile) time trial on a day when you're fresh and give it your all. It's also a good estimate of your one hour power. FTP is also your "functional" threshold in the sense that it doesn't attempt to tie it to underlying physical processes like blood lactate buildup or heart rate, it's simply what you can hold for the duration regardless of why. This is the only threshold I really pay attention to anymore but there are a lot of folks that don't use or understand this approach and refer to other thresholds.
  
• LT or Lactate Threshold. This one appears in lots of fitness articles and is used by a lot of folks who measure heart rate. It is also used incorrectly from a strict exercise physiology definition most of the time. Technically your LT is the point where your blood lactate starts rising above a baseline level at a steeper exponential rate. This happens at fairly low exercise intensity for folks training seriously and doesn't really represent any sort of threshold that most of us care about from a performance standpoint. But the term is used in lots of training articles and books to describe something like FTP or what you can hold for an hour or so. That's a very confusing misuse of the term. Technically from an exercise physiology standpoint there is a blood lactate equivalent or near equivalent to FTP and it's called OBLA(Onset of Blood Lactate Accumulation) and is sometimes defined as the point where your blood lactate exceeds the 4 mmol concentration which is an average break point for long efforts.
  
• AT or Anaerobic Threshold. This one gets misused a lot as well. Most folks use this interchangeably and incorrectly with LT to define what you can do for a long effort like a one hour time trial. Technically you're still aerobic when you do VO2 max intervals which most folks can only sustain for 5 to 8 minutes. So AT should represent the longest VO2 max interval you can pull off, not what you can do for an hour. But again in a lot of training systems, especially those based on HR you'll see this term used to define your one hour pacing.
  
• VT or Ventilatory Threshold. This is where your breathing increases dramatically in response to greater efforts. It doesn't appear in cycle training articles as often but represents yet another "threshold".
  

I'm sure there are many more thresholds defined in various training plans so the key thing is to chose a system that makes sense to you, hopefully is based on some good science and figure out what they mean by the term.

Personally I'm a very big fan of power based training although I trained poorly with HR based systems for many years. My results with power based systems and an emphasis on raising FTP and VO2 max power have been really good.

If you want to try that kind of system you should buy a copy of Hunter and Coggan's book: amazon.com1931382794Open ↗ read it to figure out what they're talking about. If you're serious about training then you should also save up for a power meter but even if you don't the information in this book is really good.

You should also surf these forums for references to FTP and Sweet Spot Training(SST) and read the early pages of the It's Killing Me but... thread. That one is particularly motivational and explains a lot of this stuff.

Good luck,
Dave

Thanks man I think to buy book about training with power meter....I think that will help me