Threaded versus threadless headset

rtn-<< There's no movement in the threadless steerer-stem connection, as there is in a stem using a
wedge. The threadless stem clamps directly to the steerer. >><BR><BR>

????Show me ytour threadless set-up and I'll bet I can move the stem-steerer connection...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Bob M said:

Rick Onanian said:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote:
> again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust the bearings.

Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my threadless-stem road bike a few times,
and if I missed something important, I'd like to know...

Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?

Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the headset (which can be
done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a
threaded headset, it's the same adjustment, only you tighten large nuts that go around the
steerer tube.

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For threadless, you have to re-do each
time you change anything about the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the
whole headset assembly is loose.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and well-lubed.

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their hubs; I see no reason to
presume they could adjust the preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height means
a trip to the mechanic.

I guess I don't see this as a significant drawback to the threadless design. Isn't there an easy
workaround? Can't you just use a thin clamp to hold the preload, and then move the spacers and stem
around as much as you like?

David Damerell may have said:

Werehatrack said:

That said, threaded still seems to make more sense to me. Maybe I'm just a reactionary, but I just
can't see that there's any important advantage *for me* in the threadless setups. That might
change someday, but it will probably be a while.

I have a threaded fork with a Nitto quill stem - to get the same bar position with a threadless
headset would demand a very unusually shaped stem.

"Unusual" seems to be synonymous with "expensive" in this context, as well.

Quoted message said:

The two main arguments I've heard for threadless seem only to apply to very heavy riders with
powerful upper bodies (where "stiffer" is not just a meaningless marketing fact) and people who
somehow manage to sweat a lot onto the headset, sticking the quill in place [1].

I'm not sure I want to know what's going on atop a bike that's accumulating sweat on the stem.
*Really* I don't.

Quoted message said:

If, like me, you don't have either of those two problems you are entirely right to conclude that
there is no advantage to threadless, and may as well continue to enjoy the easier adjustment of
quill stems.

As I do!

Quoted message said:

[1] I still don't see how this happens - the head is usually at least somewhat aft of the bars, and
the apparent wind will blow droplets of sweat to the rear. When I sweat enough that it cannot
evaporate it hits me on the knees, not on the headset!

Same here. I will admit the possibility that an MTB rider might be leaning far enough forward on a
steep climb to drop sweat on the stem, but on a road bike, this problem would seem to be one that
would have a hard time happening when the bike is actually in motion. Forward.

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"Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bob M said:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:39:02 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to

re-adjust

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> the bearings.
>
> Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my

threadless-stem

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Quoted message said:

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> road bike a few times, and if I missed something important, I'd like

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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> know...
>
> Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?
>
>
Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in

the

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

headset (which can be done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a threaded headset, it's

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

same adjustment, only you tighten large nuts that go around the

steerer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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tube.

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For threadless, you have to re-do
each time you change anything about the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset,
the whole

headset

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

assembly is loose.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and

well-lubed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their hubs; I see no reason to
presume they could adjust the preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height
means a trip to the mechanic.

I guess I don't see this as a significant drawback to the threadless design. Isn't there an easy
workaround? Can't you just use a thin clamp to hold the preload, and then move the spacers and
stem around as much as you like?

I think this is right. As Jobst asks, what is it with needing to move the stem all the time? Even on
a new bike it ought to take only a few changes, and then all is good. I ride bikes alot and haven't
moved a stem in 5 years. 2 out of 3 of them are threadless.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Werehatrack said:

On 21 Aug 2003 13:21:25 +0100 (BST), David Damerell <[email hidden]> may

have said:

The two main arguments I've heard for threadless seem only to apply to very heavy riders with
powerful upper bodies (where "stiffer" is not just a meaningless marketing fact) and people who
somehow manage to sweat a lot onto the headset, sticking the quill in place [1].

I'm not sure I want to know what's going on atop a bike that's accumulating sweat on the stem.
*Really* I don't.

Perhaps using the bike on a trainer?

Sam

[email hidden] wrote

Quoted message said:

What I don't understand is why you want to take your stem off all the time.

My family has several bikes (about a dozen). Some are singles, while several are tandems. Depending
on where we're going, how much we're carrying and how many people we're taking, we switch among
them. The ability to rapidly and easily change seat and bar height makes it all possible, and our
"old fashioned" quill stems makes *that* possible.

In a "personal bike" scenerio, I can see that the threadless headset has many advantages. It just
doesn't fit very well into my life.

John Thurston Juneau, Alaska

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Steven M. Schar
The threadless is cheaper to manufacture. Like many "advancements," i.e. the elimination of lugs,
the move to aluminum from chromolloy steel on the cheaper bikes, these changes are marketed as
improvements when they are really not.

Whoa! Hold on one second there. GOing from lugs to TIG results in lighter weight and a stronger weld. Other than that, threadless is just bad bull.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Fabrizio Mazzol
David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),

Dave, when was the last time you saw anyone riding with those old things, these days everyone ride
threadless.

And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another group to ride with,
because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that are running conventional 32
spoke wheels. Not the types you want to been seen with!

Wow Fabrizio!Wow Fabrizio! You are iggnorant, a poser, and a jackass all in one. An amazing combo.

"BaCardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steven M. Schar said:

The threadless is cheaper to manufacture. Like many "advancements," i.e. the elimination of
lugs, the move to aluminum from chromolloy steel on the cheaper bikes, these changes are
marketed as improvements when they are really not.

Whoa! Hold on one second there. GOing from lugs to TIG results in lighter weight and a
stronger weld.

So does aluminum (lighter weight).

"Eric St. Mary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fabrizio Mazzol said:

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

>
With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),

Dave, when was the last time you saw anyone riding with those old things, these days everyone
ride threadless. And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another
group to ride with, because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that
are running conventional 32 spoke

wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not the types you want to been seen with!

Quoted message said:

Wow Fabrizio!Wow Fabrizio! You are iggnorant, a poser, and a jackass all in one. An amazing combo.

If you were a fish, Eric, you'd be headless and simmering in butter by now.

Bill "scales fell from my eyes within an hour" S.

Bob Hunt said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For threadless, you have to re-do
each time you change anything about the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset,
the whole headset assembly is loose.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are overlooking the simplicity of this adjustment. You can do it while sensing
whether the bearing adjustment is correct, unlike futzing with two large end wrenches on a guess
and then finding out it was off a bit (too tight or too loose). You can bounce the front wheel
while you adjust the Allen screw and hear bearing rattle go away. Then you snug up the stem ad
its done.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and well-lubed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Excuses won't get you no place! Dirt does not interfere with Bearing adjustment unless it's so
bad you should take it apart and clean it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their hubs; I see no reason to
presume they could adjust the preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height
means a trip to the mechanic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I don't understand is why you want to take your stem off all the time. I only do that to
clean and lubricate the head bearings. I don't see that happening more than once or twice a
year... every 5000 miles.

Quoted message said:

The flip side of this is if you only do that adjustment once or twice a year, what's the big deal
about ease of adjustment?

Read the message. This was in response to the first paragraph above. Your line of logic works for
responses to invalid complaints on all sides of the issue. Somewhere, the lines must cross.

Quoted message said:

To paraphrase the OP's question: "Is the design so much better that it's worth the money, time,
and trouble to switch from threaded to threadless?". Both systems have advantages and
disadvantages but neither has such an overwhelming advantage over the other that an otherwise
unnecessary- no broken parts, etc- switch is worth it.

That depends on whether the old system is a burden on maintenance and safety. I'm going to change
because I have had enough problems with quill stems to warrant it. Besides, the safety margin in a
0.975 dia aluminum stem is nowhere near that of a 1.25 dia tubular stem.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

I see no inherent mechanical advantages to the threadless system. It might be easier to adjust
(don't know, don't have one). I don't think they contribute to the riding experience, nor will they
make you faster.

Threadless can be made lighter. While it took the manufacturers a while to make the stems
lighter than quill stems, the requirement for a steel steerer was no longer there and forks got
a LOT lighter. The current crop of gee-whiz magnesium, C/F etc stems are lighter than any quill
will ever be.

Personally, I like the looks of a nice quill stem. The Ibis Ti quill is a work of art. The old Dura
Ace and Cinelli 1-R (which would eventuallyqueak) were nice too. Then again, I like the look of
lugged steel frames or a fine job of fillet brazing. None of this makes you faster either.

R / John

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There is one, and only one, advantage to a threadless headset. Dealers only have to sell one size
fork. There are many disadvantages: little to no bar height adjustment possible without replacing
the stem, having to re-set the bearing adjustment any time the stem is replaced in order to try to
improve bar height. Ugliness.

The bar height problem is IMO a real one. Many new bikes are set up to look like what the pros
ride. So people buy them, only to realize that

This is SO true. You should contact my friends at my LBS (Bike Gallery in Portland, Oregon) and ask
them what they did to my bike. Wanting a road bike I bought a Trek 1000, before thinking about the
fit and the threadless issue. Well, needless to say once they fit me it was a disaster. I needed the
threadless stem raised about a half a foot! They came up with an innovative solution where they
managed to attach a threaded stem to the fork by going down into the fork somehow. It's awesome.
Works great. Not sure EXACTLY what they did, but I love it. It's so well done I can foresee myself
keeping this bike for a long time and replacing parts as needed.

Preston

John Carrier said:

I see no inherent mechanical advantages to the threadless system.

From a technical point of how the link between stem and shaft is designed threadless simply
is better.

Quoted message said:

don't think they contribute to the riding experience, nor will they make you faster.

Sure. Some people like technical solutions that are less prone to failure and wear though.

--
MfG/Best regards helmut springer

Peter Cole said:

I think most corrosion problems come from riding in the rain.

I'm often taking salt crystals of my stem and head tube after rinding. While climbing there isn't
much wind...

--
MfG/Best regards helmut springer

Peter Cole said:

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

[1] I still don't see how this happens - the head is usually at least somewhat aft of the bars,
and the apparent wind will blow droplets of sweat to the rear. When I sweat enough that it
cannot evaporate it hits me on the knees, not on the headset!

I think most corrosion problems come from riding in the rain.

I doubt it. I have ridden in Britain in all weathers for many years, and only in the last couple of
years acquired a cycling cape (which covers the stem - even then, the bike is periodically parked in
the rain). I've never has a stuck quill stem.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I think most corrosion problems come from riding in the rain.

No, most corrosion problems stem from a lack of maintenance! Removing, lubricating and reinstalling
the quill stem (and seatpin, for that matter) at regular intervals will prevent them from sticking.

AL

[email hidden] wrote in news:Rv81b.13860$dk4.490375 @typhoon.sonic.net:

Quoted message said:

That depends on whether the old system is a burden on maintenance and safety. I'm going to change
because I have had enough problems with quill stems to warrant it. Besides, the safety margin in a
0.975 dia aluminum stem is nowhere near that of a 1.25 dia tubular stem.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

Now there's logic for you! Assuming that your 1.25" steerer and your .975" quill were not hollow and
there were made of similar materials then your conclusion of a higher safety margin would be sound.
But they are not. The wall thickness of a steerer is much less than that of a quill. Even though the
outside diameter of the steerer is much larger the quill retains it's strength with increased wall
thickness. Besides if you are breaking your quills then you need to take up a different activity.

AL

Peter Cole' may have said:

I think most corrosion problems come from riding in the rain.

Or parking outdoors. There's a mid-60s Schwinn outside with the effects of that too visible.

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Sam Huffman may have said:

Werehatrack said:

On 21 Aug 2003 13:21:25 +0100 (BST), David Damerell <[email hidden]> may

have said:

The two main arguments I've heard for threadless seem only to apply to very heavy riders with
powerful upper bodies (where "stiffer" is not just a meaningless marketing fact) and people who
somehow manage to sweat a lot onto the headset, sticking the quill in place [1].

I'm not sure I want to know what's going on atop a bike that's accumulating sweat on the stem.
*Really* I don't.

Perhaps using the bike on a trainer?

Plausible, at least.

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My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.