Threaded versus threadless headset

Rick Onanian said:

Bob M said:

Quoted message said:

Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?

Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the headset (which can be
done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a
threaded headset, it's the

The bolt in the cap is functional beyond holding the cap on?

Okay, well, I bolted the cap pretty tight anyway, and haven't noticed any play. I'll check
sometime soon.

Once the cap is used to tighten the headset and the stem is tightened, then you can remove the cap,
as it serves no purpose. I wouldn't remove the cap, as I'd lose it, but you can.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

Riding faster is just about as much mental as it is physical.

I'd say significantly more.

That's why an exciting bike with aero-this and carbon fiber that and high tech something else is
better; you _want_ to ride it, and are rewarded for riding it more by getting in better shape...for
an overall effect of faster speed.

People not excited by bright colors and gimmickry are the guys on an old, beat up mountain bike with
a milk crate (complete with dog) and flat pedals with work boots who fly past the rest of us without
breathing hard. They also tend to be wearing jeans and a dress shirt.

Okay, I haven't actually seen such a person, but I recall a post here by somebody claiming to be
such a person. 😉

Quoted message said:

Mike

--
Rick Onanian

David L. Johnson said:

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and well- lubed.

Okay, now I'm a bit afraid again. I've never heard of the term "preload" applied to anything other
than suspension.

What is "preload" in this context, and how should I check / adjust it?

Like I said, I've changed stems a couple times on my threadless road bike, and haven't noticed
any looseness or maladjustment from it...and have had my longest and fastest ride ever just a
few days ago.

--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

David L. Johnson said:

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and well- lubed.

Okay, now I'm a bit afraid again. I've never heard of the term "preload" applied to anything other
than suspension.

What is "preload" in this context, and how should I check / adjust it?

Like I said, I've changed stems a couple times on my threadless road bike, and haven't noticed
any looseness or maladjustment from it...and have had my longest and fastest ride ever just a few
days ago.

Preload, I think, is just the "load" put on the bearings when you tighten the bolt in the cap. If
you want to know for sure what's going on, take apart your bike. It's easy to do and will show you
how everything works. I built my mountain bike from the ground up (ordered the frame, the parts, the
wheels, etc.). It's not hard to do.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

Bob M said:

Preload, I think, is just the "load" put on the bearings when you tighten

Good. I tightened it nicely every time.

Quoted message said:

the bolt in the cap. If you want to know for sure what's going on, take apart your bike. It's easy
to do and will show you how everything works.

I have quite the collection of beaters I can experiment on, lately. I should do that. Heck, I even
have a birthday coming up; maybe I'll ask for a tool kit.

Quoted message said:

I built my mountain bike from the ground up (ordered the frame, the parts, the wheels, etc.). It's
not hard to do.

I'd like to do that sometime...I just lack the money.

--
Rick Onanian

To the guy that claimed he ripped a quill stem out of a head tube. This just seems hihgly unlikely and probably you never had the stem bolt tightened in there to begin with. They've raced 100 years of the Tour de France on quill stems with the strongest sprinters of the time and never once has a quill stem come close to being pulled out of a head tube.

Hjalmar Duklæt said:

What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the threaded
one stiffer/lighter?

Threadless systems are significantly stiffer, sometimes lighter, and less likely to suffer
structural failure than quill stem systems, for any given materials and tolerances. This is
primarily due to the categorical superiority of an external binder clamp vs. an internal expander
wedge, but also due to the weakening effect of steerer threads.

The other advantage of threadless headset systems is that the steerer tube wall thickness is not
dictated by the assembly, allowing the use of materials besides steel (or the use of different
thicknesses of steel).

There is a cost benefit of threadless forks to manufacturers and distributors, because all sizes of
frames may be accommodated with a single type of fork. Note however that the cheapest mass-market
bikes, which were only ever offered in one size, have retained quill stems and threaded headsets.

Quoted message said:

Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to threadless?

Not noticeably. If your bike is already set up, there is no compelling reason to swap systems unless
you must replace your fork.

Chalo Colina

Rick Onanian said:

Bob M said:

Preload, I think, is just the "load" put on the bearings when you tighten

Good. I tightened it nicely every time.

Quoted message said:

the bolt in the cap. If you want to know for sure what's going on, take apart your bike. It's
easy to do and will show you how everything works.

I have quite the collection of beaters I can experiment on, lately. I should do that. Heck, I even
have a birthday coming up; maybe I'll ask for a tool kit.

Quoted message said:

I built my mountain bike from the ground up (ordered the frame, the parts, the wheels, etc.).
It's not hard to do.

I'd like to do that sometime...I just lack the money.

Well, I didn't want to do it! What happened was that I wanted a suspension fork, so I ordered one
with a 1 inch threaded steerer tube. They sent me a 1 1/8 inch threadless. So, I decided that I
would order a cheap frame and take all the parts off my bike and put it on a new frame. Because
of "planned obsolescence (sp?)," none of my parts (even wheels!) would fit. I had to order all
new parts.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),

And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another group to ride with,
because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that are running conventional
32 spoke wheels. Not the types you want to been seen with!

Not at all; my wheels are either 36H, or 40H, 3X and tied and soldered ;-) It all fits perfectly
well with my quill stem, Brooks saddle, and sandals as my footware :-)

- rick

Quoted message said:

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a long time to market. The
quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling, permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the
bicycle that has been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the headset
with its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable and removable attachment to the
steer tube. However, the head bearing can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point
end wrenches. The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides that, for the weight
weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the steer tube end and four on the
front plate so that a one screw failure will not let the handlebar go free.

I recently put a Ritchey WCS stem on my bike. That stem is only one I know of with the 4-bolt/2-bolt
design you describe.

David L. Johnson said:

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For threadless, you have to re-do each
time you change anything about the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the
whole headset assembly is loose.

I think you are overlooking the simplicity of this adjustment. You can do it while sensing whether
the bearing adjustment is correct, unlike futzing with two large end wrenches on a guess and then
finding out it was off a bit (too tight or too loose). You can bounce the front wheel while you
adjust the Allen screw and hear bearing rattle go away. Then you snug up the stem ad its done.

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the
preload if the bearings are not clean and well-lubed.

Excuses won't get you no place! Dirt does not interfere with Bearing adjustment unless it's so bad
you should take it apart and clean it.

Quoted message said:

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their hubs; I see no reason to
presume they could adjust the preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height means
a trip to the mechanic.

What I don't understand is why you want to take your stem off all the time. I only do that to clean
and lubricate the head bearings. I don't see that happening more than once or twice a year... every
5000 miles.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

If you ever pack your bike in a box or a bike suitcase for travel, usually you have to turn the handlebars sideways. With a quill stem you loosen the expander wedge, drop the stem and twist; then reverse the process to unpack. With threadless you loosen the stem clamp and twist the stem on the steerer but you have to readjust the pre-load when you unpack; a minor difference. EXCEPT with my Klein's internal headset the bearings are bonded to the inside of the head tube and the fork is bonded to the bearing cartridges so there is no pre-load adjustment; in fact the spacers are just cosmetic and there is no top cap at all - just a rubber plug. They changed this in 2002 to go with the star-fangled nut design.

Richard Ney:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a long time to market. The
quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling, permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the
bicycle that has been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the headset
with its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable and removable attachment to the
steer tube. However, the head bearing can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point
end wrenches. The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides that, for the weight
weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the steer tube end and four on the
front plate so that a one screw failure will not let the handlebar go free.

I recently put a Ritchey WCS stem on my bike. That stem is only one I know of with the
4-bolt/2-bolt design you describe.

Thomson, FSA, Oval Concepts, Deda Elementi have the 2/4 bolt arrangement for road stems. ITM has a
2/3 bolt feature.

Thomson stems feature this as well - I like the Thomson myself b/c it keeps the 2 stem bolts out of
the way of your knees. Clever design.

lhthomson.comstems.aspOpen ↗

No, I don't work for them.

Chris

"Richard Ney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a long time to market. The
quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling, permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the
bicycle that has been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the headset
with its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable and removable attachment to the
steer tube. However, the head bearing can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point
end wrenches. The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides that, for the weight
weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the steer tube end and four on the
front plate so that a one screw failure will not let the handlebar go free.

I recently put a Ritchey WCS stem on my bike. That stem is only one I know of with the
4-bolt/2-bolt design you describe.

Rick Onanian may have said:

Werehatrack said:

As one who has yanked the quill entirely out of the tube, I can tell you that this is a dangerous
assumption to make. Riders can and will *pull* on the bars when pedalling hard. Sometimes hard
*vertically*. This remains true whether it's advisable and safe or not. This would seem to
mitigate in favor of the threadless design; the attachment method is probably stronger, but as
you note, the reality is that

Stronger or not, the threadless may give more warning. You may notice that it's working it's way
off the steerer earlier than you would notice a threadless working it's way out of the head.

I don't know. I've never had either one happen.

I'd think a threadless would have to get detectably sloppy before it would work its way up much, but
I've had a threaded quill (of admittedly low-end design) that was able to work up in the tube past
the min insert line with time, even though it still seemed to be tight. The Ritchey in one of my
other bikes gets more strain and never budges so much as a millimeter, though, so it's obviously
possible to make a threaded quill that will resist my abuse.

That said, threaded still seems to make more sense to me. Maybe I'm just a reactionary, but I just
can't see that there's any important advantage *for me* in the threadless setups. That might change
someday, but it will probably be a while.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

"Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in

any

Quoted message said:

way going from threaded to threadless? Hjalmar

Many thanks to all who have made their comments on my issue. My conclusion is that I really don't
need to swap fork/stem on my Trek 5500. I don't have problems riding with other riders because of
this obsolete setup, I like to be able to change the hight of the bar without to much fuss, I also
regularly check that the stem is not stuck in the steerer (after having to use a hacksaw to get the
stem out of another bike/fork) and it probably will not improve my sprint due to its better
rigidness. Finally, I'll save a lot of money. Hjalmar

Werehatrack said:

That said, threaded still seems to make more sense to me. Maybe I'm just a reactionary, but I just
can't see that there's any important advantage *for me* in the threadless setups. That might change
someday, but it will probably be a while.

I have a threaded fork with a Nitto quill stem - to get the same bar position with a threadless
headset would demand a very unusually shaped stem.

The two main arguments I've heard for threadless seem only to apply to very heavy riders with
powerful upper bodies (where "stiffer" is not just a meaningless marketing fact) and people who
somehow manage to sweat a lot onto the headset, sticking the quill in place [1].

If, like me, you don't have either of those two problems you are entirely right to conclude that
there is no advantage to threadless, and may as well continue to enjoy the easier adjustment of
quill stems.

[1] I still don't see how this happens - the head is usually at least somewhat aft of the bars, and
the apparent wind will blow droplets of sweat to the rear. When I sweat enough that it cannot
evaporate it hits me on the knees, not on the headset!
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

In article <[email hidden]>, kyle-
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Everyone is riding threadless?? And those that do ride with quill stems are the "lamers" in the
"B" group with 32 spoke wheels??

I own 7 bikes, including racing, touring, and track. Not one of them takes a threadless headset.

In our local cycling haven, where on any given ride I encounter dozens of cyclists every day,
including several clubs and a couple racing teams, I have never been dropped by another rider or
group. Except once, and that guy who dropped me did it on a lugged steel mid 80's Pinarello with a
quill stem and 32 spoke wheels.

On the other hand, I frequently will come upon riders with the latest carbon fiber or titanium and
aero wheeled wizardry, catch them, pass them, and drop them. Sometimes they'll try to hang on for
a while, but then drop back wheezing for air when we hit the hills. If they aren't that good of a
rider, the bike isn't helping them. "It's not the bike -- it's the rider" is a tired cliche -- but
it's true nonetheless.

Anybody who thinks that a threadless headset can make them faster needs a reality check.

Oh, take it easy; it's just our Fabs! He's just a troll, but he provides some comic relief, so don't
take him seriously.

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another group to ride with,
because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that are running conventional
32 spoke wheels. Not the types you want to been seen with!

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't see that happening more than once or twice a year... every 5000 miles.

Most excellent drive-by gloat.

[censored] Durbin

Threaded is better because the height it is adjustable.

The threadless is cheaper to manufacture. Like many "advancements," i.e. the elimination of lugs,
the move to aluminum from chromolloy steel on the cheaper bikes, these changes are marketed as
improvements when they are really not.

I remember the first bike I got with a threadless headset and I guess I hadn't kept up with the
times because I was confused as to the assembly (this was a specialty high end folding bike not sold
in stores and it was bought on-line and required assembly). I just couldn't believe that they'd
eliminate the easy adjustability, and I thought I was missing some parts.

"Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in

any

Quoted message said:

way going from threaded to threadless? Hjalmar