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thoughts from chris carmichael on lance deing dehydrated

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Road Cycling
Published
19 July 2003
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24 July 2003
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Dwjones
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  1. An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing, bonking, and getting
    dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of body weight between waking up and finishing
    Stage 12 yesterday, all of it fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
    power was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and today are
    remarkable.

    Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor fall,
    once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of
    either fuel (bonking) or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
    replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration leads to a 10-15% drop in
    sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power.
    Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition characterized
    by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body through sweating.

    Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In an effort to continue
    racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig very deep and expend more energy per unit time
    than normal. That means that even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
    level was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his lost fluids,
    takes time.

    Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids out
    of your body than it is replenishing them. It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating
    to the extent he did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a lot of
    water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy he lost
    earlier in the day. By this morning, his waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was
    nearly normal, but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during Stage
    13.

    While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently consumed fluids throughout the
    stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing
    Alexander Vinokorouv in the final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
    considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability to recover from hard efforts.
    Part of what makes him a champion is his ability to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then
    recover to be able to do it again the following day.

    Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance during
    Stage 14. His goal is still to find opportunities to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before
    Tuesday's rest day. Though his legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with
    a strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.

  2. How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

    dwjones said:


    An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing, bonking, and getting
    dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of body weight between waking up and finishing
    Stage 12 yesterday, all of it fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of
    his power was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and today are
    remarkable.

    Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
    fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out
    of either fuel (bonking) or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
    replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration leads to a 10-15% drop
    in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body weight, you can lose at least 20% of your
    power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
    characterized by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body through
    sweating.

    Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In an effort to continue
    racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig very deep and expend more energy per unit time
    than normal. That means that even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
    level was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his lost fluids,
    takes time.

    Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids
    out of your body than it is replenishing them. It takes more than 24 hours to recover from
    dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed
    a lot of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and
    energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning, his waking body weight (measured after using
    the bathroom) was nearly normal, but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal
    during Stage
    13.

    While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently consumed fluids throughout the
    stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing
    Alexander Vinokorouv in the final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
    considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability to recover from hard
    efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his ability to put in huge efforts on one stage, and
    then recover to be able to do it again the following day.

    Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance during
    Stage 14. His goal is still to find opportunities to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before
    Tuesday's rest day. Though his legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and
    with a strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.

  3. who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the athlete's own coach.
    "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

    dwjones said:


    An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:


    crashing,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his


    power

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today are remarkable.

    Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
    fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run
    out of either fuel


    (bonking)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you replenish what you're
    missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to


    dehydration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at
    serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition


    characterized

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    through sweating.

    Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.


    In

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to


    dig

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort


    level

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lost fluids, takes time.

    Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids
    out of your body than it is replenishing


    them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how much
    you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a


    lot

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy
    he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly


    normal,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during


    Stage

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    13.

    While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently


    consumed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on
    Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
    encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his


    ability

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    again the following day.

    Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance
    during Stage 14. His goal is still to find


    opportunities

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a strong team around him,
    he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.

  4. "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

    Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

  5. how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is quite
    clear that the words in my post was his. "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

    Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

  6. dwjones said:


    how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is quite
    clear that the words in my post was his.

    FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

    Quoted message said:

    "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

    Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

  7. In article _bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01 said:

    who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the athlete's own coach.

    He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that. Lance's
    association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

    -WG

    Quoted message said:

    "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

    dwjones said:


    An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:


    crashing,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his


    power

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today are remarkable.

    Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
    fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run
    out of either fuel


    (bonking)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you replenish what you're
    missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to


    dehydration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at
    serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition


    characterized

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    through sweating.

    Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.


    In

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to


    dig

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort


    level

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lost fluids, takes time.

    Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
    fluids out of your body than it is replenishing


    them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how
    much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a


    lot

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy
    he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly


    normal,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during


    Stage

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    13.

    While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently


    consumed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on
    Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
    encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his


    ability

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    again the following day.

    Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance
    during Stage 14. His goal is still to find


    opportunities

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a strong team around him,
    he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.

  8. then why does it say that he is armstrong's coach in his bio? "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article _bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01 said:

    who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    athlete's own coach.

    He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
    Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

    -WG

    Quoted message said:

    "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

    dwjones wrote:
    >
    > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:


    crashing,

    Quoted message said:

    > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six


    kilograms

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    power

    Quoted message said:

    > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did


    yesterday

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and

    Quoted message said:

    > today are remarkable.
    >
    > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes


    preferable

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can


    continue

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel


    (bonking)

    Quoted message said:

    > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to


    dehydration

    Quoted message said:

    > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    body

    Quoted message said:

    > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid


    loss

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition


    characterized

    Quoted message said:

    > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the


    body

    Quoted message said:

    > through sweating.
    >
    > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as


    well.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In

    Quoted message said:

    > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dig

    Quoted message said:

    > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That


    means

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that

    Quoted message said:

    > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort


    level

    Quoted message said:

    > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and


    replenishing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > lost fluids, takes time.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
    > fluids out of your body than it is replenishing


    them.

    Quoted message said:

    > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the


    extent he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance


    consumed a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot

    Quoted message said:

    > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the


    fluids,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this


    morning,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly


    normal,

    Quoted message said:

    > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during


    Stage

    Quoted message said:

    > 13.
    >
    > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently


    consumed

    Quoted message said:

    > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals.


    Finishing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
    > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing


    ability

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his


    ability

    Quoted message said:

    > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    > again the following day.
    >
    > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and


    have a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find


    opportunities

    Quoted message said:

    > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day.


    Though

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his


    yellow

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > jersey.

  9. David Ryan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    dwjones said:


    how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is
    quite clear that the words in my post was his.

    FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

    Quoted message said:

    "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

    Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

    Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
    strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
    that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

    It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
    paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
    goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

  10. this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
    carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was in the public domain that anyone could have access
    to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of your ass "Isidor Gunsberg"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    David Ryan <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    dwjones said:


    how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the


    title to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.

    FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

    Quoted message said:

    "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >
    > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
    >
    > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
    >
    >

    Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
    strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
    that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

    It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
    paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
    goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

  11. "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...

    Quoted message said:

    this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright.

    You mean like a joke?

    this

    Quoted message said:

    article written from chris carmichael did not come from a paid site. it


    was

    Quoted message said:

    in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of
    your ass "Isidor Gunsberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    David Ryan <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dwjones wrote:
    >
    > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the


    title to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.

    FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

    > "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
    > >
    > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an


    alternative.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >
    > >

    Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
    strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
    that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

    It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
    paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
    goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

  12. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article _bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01 said:

    who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    athlete's own coach.


    You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state that Lance is his client, I
    find it amazing that anyone would argue the point. Why does anyone else other than those two get to
    define what their relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes and met
    Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.

    I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching instructions from someone other than
    Chris, you would certainly be entitled to mention that, but you don't have that now, do you?

    Quoted message said:


    He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
    Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

    -WG

    Quoted message said:

    "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

    dwjones wrote:
    >
    > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:


    crashing,

    Quoted message said:

    > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six


    kilograms

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    power

    Quoted message said:

    > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did


    yesterday

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and

    Quoted message said:

    > today are remarkable.
    >
    > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes


    preferable

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can


    continue

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel


    (bonking)

    Quoted message said:

    > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to


    dehydration

    Quoted message said:

    > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    body

    Quoted message said:

    > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid


    loss

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition


    characterized

    Quoted message said:

    > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the


    body

    Quoted message said:

    > through sweating.
    >
    > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as


    well.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In

    Quoted message said:

    > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dig

    Quoted message said:

    > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That


    means

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that

    Quoted message said:

    > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort


    level

    Quoted message said:

    > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and


    replenishing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > lost fluids, takes time.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
    > fluids out of your body than it is replenishing


    them.

    Quoted message said:

    > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the


    extent he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance


    consumed a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot

    Quoted message said:

    > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the


    fluids,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this


    morning,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly


    normal,

    Quoted message said:

    > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during


    Stage

    Quoted message said:

    > 13.
    >
    > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently


    consumed

    Quoted message said:

    > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals.


    Finishing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
    > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing


    ability

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his


    ability

    Quoted message said:

    > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    > again the following day.
    >
    > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and


    have a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find


    opportunities

    Quoted message said:

    > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day.


    Though

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his


    yellow

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > jersey.

  13. In article said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article _bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01 said:

    who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    athlete's own coach.


    You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state that Lance is his client, I
    find it amazing that anyone would argue the point. Why does anyone else other than those two get
    to define what their relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes and
    met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.

    I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching instructions from someone other than
    Chris, you would certainly be entitled to mention that, but you don't have that now, do you?

    I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the details. Trust me, Chris is fully
    aware that he doesn't know enough to be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of Lance's
    caliber or even a rider a fair bit below that level.

    For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
    he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
    training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
    Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

    You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
    involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.

    -WG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
    Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

    -WG

  14. "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...

    Quoted message said:

    this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
    carmichael did not come from a paid site. it


    was

    Quoted message said:

    in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of
    your ass

    The issue isn't copyright or plagiarizing. The issue is credibility and context. Without being able
    to go directly to the source itself no one knows whether what was posted is accurate or if so what
    the context is. It is important to include the source/URL.

  15. Steve D said:

    So Lance was the only one to dehydrate? And no won else did? We've all read about how he is
    meticulous in his preparation. How could this have happened? Nobody to bring him any bottles?...

    Steve

    He bonked on that climb in 1999. I wonder how many other top cyclists

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  16. Nick Burns said:

    <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

    Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

    Did you not read the subject title?

  17. warren said:

    For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
    he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
    training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
    Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

    That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :-)

    Quoted message said:

    You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
    involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.

    -WG

    CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  18. "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04>...

    Quoted message said:

    this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
    carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was in the public domain that anyone could have
    access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of your ass

    A little defensive aren't you? You obviously are completely ignorant when it comes to knowledge
    about copyright.

    Hint: just because something is "free" on the Internet does not give you the right to post it
    where you will.

    Once a work is created, the composer of that work automatically holds the copyright.

    Why don't you try publishing a Cycling Magazine comprised of Free content that you gleaned from
    the Web? Then you'll probably get a better idea of Copyright.

    Quoted message said:

    "Isidor Gunsberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    David Ryan <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dwjones wrote:
    >
    > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the


    title to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.

    FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

    > "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > >
    > > "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
    > >
    > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
    > >
    > >

    Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
    strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
    that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

    It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
    paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
    goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

  19. "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    warren said:

    For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the
    time he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
    training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
    Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

    That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :-)

    Quoted message said:

    You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
    involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.

    -WG

    CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.

    Though it is very unlikely that they are involved in his coaching, both his father and brother
    are M.D.s.

  20. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect


    than

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > athlete's own coach.

    You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lance is his client, I find it amazing that anyone would argue the


    point.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Why does anyone else other than those two get to define what their relationship is? Not only
    that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.

    I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching


    instructions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from someone other than Chris, you would certainly be entitled to


    mention

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that, but you don't have that now, do you?

    I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the details. Trust me, Chris is
    fully aware that he doesn't know enough to be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of
    Lance's caliber or even a rider a fair bit below that level.

    For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
    he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
    training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
    Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

    You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
    involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.

    -WG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
    Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

    -WG

    He is a coach. I am sure both of them consult with Ferrari, but the daily coaching duties are
    done by CC.

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