Those gomls.. They never give up

"RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3230869.stmOpen ↗

Now if we stay on the roads we will be fine with all those cute cuddly cars.......

Richard Webb

No problem, just don't try and tag any calves whilst you're out walking! You have been warned.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3230869.stmOpen ↗

Now if we stay on the roads we will be fine with all those cute cuddly cars.......

I'm obviously missing something - farmer, as seen by mama cow, attacks calf; mama cow attacks
farmer. And the link with access rights is... what, exactly?
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Fran <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3230869.stmOpen ↗

Now if we stay on the roads we will be fine with all those cute cuddly cars.......

I'm obviously missing something - farmer, as seen by mama cow, attacks calf; mama cow attacks
farmer. And the link with access rights is... what, exactly?

Well if you happen to go on his land and mama cow attacks you I suppose he feels that he has a duty
bound to protect you. Reading the report it did happen in a confined area. The area is Scotland and
ok their law on access is different to English, Welsh law But the situation can occur in the NOW
just wander on a public right of way across a field in England. Mama cow might take a distinct
unlike to you and take a running hit. One is supposed to keep to path etc. BUT frankly I have always
kept a beady eye on stock and taken a path that does not go between members of the herd.
--
david hill

Fran <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well if you happen to go on his land and mama cow attacks you I suppose he feels that he has a
duty bound to protect you. Reading the report it did happen in a confined area.

Well yes, but it's also clear that he came between mama cow and her baby, which is something I was
taught not to do when I was very young. OK, he's a farmer and has to do these things; however those
of us who aren't, and don't, need only to exercise common sense whilst exercising the legs.

Oh I agree with everything you state. Familiarity on the farmers part has lead to this and other
similar instances in the past some with more fatal consequences.
--
david hill

In article <[email hidden]>, david hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Well if you happen to go on his land and mama cow attacks you I suppose he feels that he has a duty
bound to protect you.

If you are trespassing and remain after being asked to leave, the farmer should take steps to remove
you. If he doesn't ensure you departure from his land, he effectively makes you a licensee which
basically means you have his permission to be there. Now he has a legal duty to inform you of any
possible danger.

--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jackson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The problem I seem to get is that they just start following me, Pied Piper fashion. Nothing scary,
just "Oh look, it's a human, it must be milking time".

Maybe that Tim, but in my experience it's the cows that tell the farmer it's milking time especially
if he's a bit late calling them in :-)

The cattle - be it cows or heifers, or bullocks, will mob anything "different" be it a ranging rod
placed in their field, or as we saw on our local golf course, the flag on the 10th green. When a
dozen heifers decided to investigate the flag - what a mess on the green.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3230869.stmOpen ↗

Now if we stay on the roads we will be fine with all those cute cuddly cars.......

I'm obviously missing something - farmer, as seen by mama cow, attacks calf; mama cow attacks
farmer. And the link with access rights is... what, exactly?

It's called a strwaman argument - they don't want access by the Great Unwashed in case one of their
cows attacks said unwashed and farmer gets sued.

It would be a pathetic excuse except for the fact that sue happy proles probably would try it on.
--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's called a strwaman argument - they don't want access by the Great Unwashed in case one of
their cows attacks said unwashed and farmer gets sued.

It would be a pathetic excuse except for the fact that sue happy proles probably would try it on.

As it happens, I've been reading the Scotways booklet on RoW law this evening (sad or what!!). In
Scotland, a landowner has no duty of care towards users of public RoW. He cannot put an adult bull
in a field through which a public RoW runs - but you walk through a herd of cows entirely at your
own peril.

Cheers Andrew Kay

david hill wrote on Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:27:51 +0000....

Quoted message said:

But the situation can occur in the NOW just wander on a public right of way across a field in
England. Mama cow might take a distinct unlike to you and take a running hit. One is supposed to
keep to path etc. BUT frankly I have always kept a beady eye on stock and taken a path that does
not go between members of the herd.

The problem I seem to get is that they just start following me, Pied Piper fashion. Nothing scary,
just "Oh look, it's a human, it must be milking time".

Once I was walking up a path in a field, at the back of a group of friends. When I was approaching
the stile at the top of the field where the first people had stopped to wait for the rest of us, I
couldn't understand why they were all laughing. Then I turned round and saw the herd of cows that
had followed me all the way from the bottom of the field!

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

. The area is Scotland and ok their law on

Quoted message said:

access is different to English, Welsh law But the situation can occur in the NOW just wander on a
public right of way across a field in England. Mama cow might take a distinct unlike to you and
take a running hit.

Dont go tagging calves then.. Cow attacks are very rare, hence my comment about cuddly cars on the
other side of the Public Footpath sign.

Richard Webb

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Fran <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3230869.stmOpen ↗

Now if we stay on the roads we will be fine with all those cute cuddly cars.......

I'm obviously missing something - farmer, as seen by mama cow, attacks calf; mama cow attacks
farmer. And the link with access rights is... what, exactly?

Quoted message said:

Well if you happen to go on his land and mama cow attacks you I suppose he feels that he has a
duty bound to protect you. Reading the report it did happen in a confined area.

Well yes, but it's also clear that he came between mama cow and her baby, which is something I was
taught not to do when I was very young. OK, he's a farmer and has to do these things; however those
of us who aren't, and don't, need only to exercise common sense whilst exercising the legs.

--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In Scotland, a landowner has no duty of care towards users of public RoW. He cannot put an adult
bull in a field through which a public RoW runs - but you walk through a herd of cows entirely at
your own peril.

Isn't that the same in England and Wales?
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

"Andrew Kay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's called a strwaman argument - they don't want access by the Great Unwashed in case one of
their cows attacks said unwashed and farmer gets sued.

It would be a pathetic excuse except for the fact that sue happy proles probably would try
it on.

As it happens, I've been reading the Scotways booklet on RoW law this evening (sad or what!!). In
Scotland, a landowner has no duty of care towards users of public RoW. He cannot put an adult bull
in a field

through

Quoted message said:

which a public RoW runs - but you walk through a herd of cows entirely at your own peril.

Cheers Andrew Kay

The point of the argument is that, as of next year, landowners are expected to make access easier
(the ROW question is then irrelevant). There is a legitimate concern that said landowner might then
become the target of litigation in the event of any misfortune. Scottish Executive have been at
pains to point out that thyere will be in crease in legal obligation on the part of the landowner.

druidh

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, david hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Well if you happen to go on his land and mama cow attacks you I suppose he feels that he has a
duty bound to protect you.

If you are trespassing and remain after being asked to leave, the farmer should take steps to
remove you. If he doesn't ensure you departure from his land, he effectively makes you a licensee
which basically means you have his permission to be there. Now he has a legal duty to inform you of
any possible danger.

Scotland!!!!!!

This will stop soon, that is what the complainant is worried about.

Richard Webb

The message <[email hidden]>
from Fran <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In Scotland, a landowner has no duty of care towards users of public RoW. He cannot put an adult
bull in a field through which a public RoW runs - but you walk through a herd of cows entirely
at your own peril.

Quoted message said:

Isn't that the same in England and Wales?

That depends on how you interpret the OP. Farmers in England and Wales can run certain breeds of
bull on PROWs provided they are with a herd of cows. Dairy bulls are however verboten.

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight

druidh wrote

Quoted message said:

The point of the argument is that, as of next year, landowners are expected to make access easier

I can't see how this would increase the liklihood of an incident. The number of walkers or livestock
are unlikely to increase but the walkers will be more widely dispersed therefore decreasing the
liklihood of an individual coming into contact with an animal.

Quoted message said:

There is a legitimate concern that said landowner might then become the target of litigation in
the event of any misfortune.

It's not legitimate, however.

Quoted message said:

Scottish Executive have been at pains to point out that there will be increase in legal obligation
on the part of the landowner.

Balanced by a decrease in the probability of likely claims. I see thier point but they're being
misguided IMO and its more likely that they're feeling threatened by the whole thing and clutching
at straws. This argument is facile.

Chris

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jackson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The problem I seem to get is that they just start following me, Pied Piper fashion. Nothing scary,
just "Oh look, it's a human, it must be milking time".

Maybe that Tim, but in my experience it's the cows that tell the farmer it's milking time
especially if he's a bit late calling them in :-)

Opening the door to the milking parlour more like. Cows get used to routine and know when it is
milking time.

Quoted message said:

The cattle - be it cows or heifers, or bullocks, will mob anything "different" be it a ranging rod
placed in their field, or as we saw on our local golf course, the flag on the 10th green. When a
dozen heifers decided to investigate the flag - what a mess on the green.

Young cattle are just plain curious, a bit like children really, but possibly easier to control. :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Chris Gilbert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

druidh wrote

Quoted message said:

The point of the argument is that, as of next year, landowners are

expected

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to make access easier

I can't see how this would increase the liklihood of an incident. The number of walkers or
livestock are unlikely to increase but the walkers will be more widely dispersed therefore
decreasing the liklihood of an individual coming into contact with an animal.

No but they may or will choose to walk in a wider range of places that the landowner hadn't
considered. Places where there would, in the past, have been livestock and no walkers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is a legitimate concern that said landowner might then become the target of litigation in
the event of any misfortune.

It's not legitimate, however.

I disagree. "where there's an accident there's a claim" is the prevailing view now and it's a view
that drives most health and safety activities (unfortunately).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scottish Executive have been at pains to point out that there will be increase in legal
obligation on the part of the landowner.

Balanced by a decrease in the probability of likely claims. I see thier point but they're being
misguided IMO and its more likely that they're feeling threatened by the whole thing and clutching
at straws. This argument is facile.

They may have been misguided, even so, until they are correctly guided it's not facile (to them
or anyone in a similar postion). I don't believe the original article suggested reversing the
open access move, merely clarification on landowner's liabilities from the law makers - a
reasonable request.

--
Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix said:

Places where there would, in the past, have been livestock and no walkers.

Such as?

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗