This will be a long thread

beerco said:

One problem many people have is setting goals which are completely unachievable, which I think you have. By setting goals so high, you are guaranteeing failure, and in fact, you may be doing so subconsciously to ensure that you fail and give yourself yet another excuse to quit.

How about a goal of becoming the Michigan Cat 5 or Cat 4 state champ within 2 years and upgrading to cat 3 within 3 years. I'm sure you'll find that challenge enough (in fact, you'll have to work very very hard to achieve even that).

I race in SE Michigan as a cat 4 and will be upgrading to 3 at the end of the year. If you need assistance in finding a club etc, I can help. Do yourself a favor though and re-consider those goals - pick something that's possible to achieve both in short term and long term. It's o.k. to pick something harder for a very long term goal, but how about something that's just out of reach, like cat 2, rather than something on the far side of the moon.

I agree with the point that you made beerco, but I think there was a degree of 'pragmatic ambition' in what eagleflight was saying. I think he should take your advice, but will figure out his 'acheivable limits' the more he trains.

I don't mean to discourage you from training and pursuing your highest potential, but your goal (cycling in olympics) is most likely out of your reach. Consider these facts:
-riders in the olympic road race are mostly professionals, and most professionals have been practising endurance sports since their teens, and almost all of them are under 40 years old
-professionals train for about ~1000 hours a year (~20 hours a week), and have been doing so for many years
-professionals can average ~25 mph for many hours even when riding solo

Anyway, don't let this discourage you from riding and racing, but set your goals at a realistic and achievable level, and also remember to have both short and long term goals and keep on progressing.

I want to say thank you to all of you.
I want to say thank you especially to you Mr. Stewart, as I have found your information quite helpful and have already taken it to heart.

I want to say this as someone who is in no way giving anyone a hard time, but more a further and deeper explanation of the "going to the Olympics" part as like with my friends and wife who also did not understand my meaning, I had to take several extra moments to explain so that it was understood properly. This is obviously a problem on my part in how I comunicate my meanings and I apologize for that.
I do want to stress to every one, that, I dont see that I could make it to the olympics, even in 12 years, if just because the athletes there will probably be between 18 and 30 years old and have trained for many years, probably more then the 12 years my "at that time" 52 year old body would have. But I put that standard up at the top of a clean sheet of paper as the top standard that can be reached. I see myself at the bottom of that page. My goal is not to get there. but to see how close I can get before I top out. By doing this, I can do the one thing I have never done in my life, and thats finally be able to say to myself, "You, Johnny, finally went as far as you could possably go without quitting, and I am proud of you!" Thats why I called the Olympics at the top of the clean page a direction. My goals are going to be the list of things I am striving for on the lines on that page between me at the bottom of the page and the Olympics at the top of the page. A perfect example is that my first goal is being able to ride those thirty or forty miles a day without stopping and build my stamina, then as I do that, work toward building my speed, and then after that working toward my first level of Cat 5. these are goals to getting to my main goal and once again that is to see how far I can get before I finally have gone as far as I can and can be proud of myself. I can never be disapointed that i don't make it to the Olympics because thats not my goal, I can only be disapointed if I "quit" before I find out how far I can get. That is my goal.

By the way I rode a 1 hour and 29 minute 20 mile jaunt today, with some good hills in it. (and boy are my legs Tired, lol)
Actually I rode to the store to get hearing aid batteries for my wife and rode 3 miles to her work that is mostly up hill. then rode 3 miles to the spot I start my riding from. I then started my stop watch and rode 20 miles in 89 minutes which also has some good hills in it, then rode back to my wifes work 3 miles a very relaxed pace up hills again and had lunch then rode home for 3 more miles, mostly down those hills thank god, total of 32 miles. Mind you I still have to deal with plenty of traffic and lights and ass's that I want to flip off because they yell and wont let me ride. so the time I put up for my rides are affected by these small problems.

I do have a couple questions:
Is it normal to be extremely hungry shortly after a big ride? if so, what do I do? fill up with wifes pasta? or shove alot of extra water down my throat. Is it ok to ride a bit of a distance, then stop, then ride again then stop, and do this off and on? I have found that 1 day I did this and though my legs were sore at the end of each short 3 mile spurt, they felt better then next morning. Also is it normal for my stomach to feel a slight acid burn near the end of every ride? It comes on near the end of my endurance every ride, and I drink water to try to sooth it.

the things that hurt after my ride today.
1 "MMMYYY ARRSSSSS!!!!!!! (I put a soft card bourd on top of the chamois and it molded to the chamois inside and game me some help why didnt I feel this at 16? probably didnt have enough brains then)
2 my shoulder blade muscles (just stiff)
3 my upper legs (just stiff)
4 my calfs (a little painful when I walk, but mostly just stiff)
5 my EGO (feels like its been taken, beaten, run through the mud then dressed in a clown suit and handed back to me)
6 my pride? (DAMN PROUD OF MYSELF, HECK this is only the 5th day)

also, I kinda need to know if my route seems ok, like a good route to anyone. where I start it goes up a hill that breaks off and on for 1 mile at about a 30 degree incline. then it flatens out and goes straight for another mile. then I turn left go a half mile, then I turn left again and go through some up and down hills that are about 20 degrees, incline and decline, for a half mile, then I go down a decline for a half mile of about 60 degrees decline then I turn right and go for 1/2 mile down a 15 degree decline, then continues for 2 more miles at a 5 degree decline, then I turn left go one mile flat, then I turn left again and on flat turrain for a 1/2 mile then it continues for 2 miles at a 5 degree incline and then I continue the last 1/2 mile at a 15 degree incline. If you read this and draw it on a piece of paper it will make more sence when you look at it so you can give me advice. thanks again for your time every one.

oh ya, and yee haw, I get to rest tomorrow, lol. my back is killing me😕

EagleFlight said:

My goal is not to get there. but to see how close I can get before I top out. By doing this, I can do the one thing I have never done in my life, and thats finally be able to say to myself, "You, Johnny, finally went as far as you could possably go without quitting, and I am proud of you!" Thats why I called the Olympics at the top of the clean page a direction. ...
...these are goals to getting to my main goal and once again that is to see how far I can get before I finally have gone as far as I can and can be proud of myself. I can never be disapointed that i don't make it to the Olympics because thats not my goal, I can only be disapointed if I "quit" before I find out how far I can get. That is my goal.

Ok, now I got your point, and it makes perfect sense. It's a good idea setting goals to improve your riding. Cycling is a sport in which fitness doesn't come quickly or easily, so it is important to know that you're in it for long term, which is exactly what you are doing. Your fitness is most likely to improve rather quickly for a couple of years, after that it's good to bear in mind that even though it seems like you're not getting any fitter, it's the small, continual improvements that make the difference in long term. So, you have a good attitude to help you in your training, I wish you happy riding 🙂

beerco said:

One problem many people have is setting goals which are completely unachievable, which I think you have. By setting goals so high, you are guaranteeing failure, and in fact, you may be doing so subconsciously to ensure that you fail and give yourself yet another excuse to quit.

How about a goal of becoming the Michigan Cat 5 or Cat 4 state champ within 2 years and upgrading to cat 3 within 3 years. I'm sure you'll find that challenge enough (in fact, you'll have to work very very hard to achieve even that).

I race in SE Michigan as a cat 4 and will be upgrading to 3 at the end of the year. If you need assistance in finding a club etc, I can help. Do yourself a favor though and re-consider those goals - pick something that's possible to achieve both in short term and long term. It's o.k. to pick something harder for a very long term goal, but how about something that's just out of reach, like cat 2, rather than something on the far side of the moon.

Agree with you 100%....setting realistic and achievable goals is important. Believe most successful people have the ability to do this over no more than say a 12 month period. Then, they continue to reach further for the next goal, ie, go from one success to the next.

As we know, someone 40 years old just starting to ride isn't going to be going to become an Olympic cyclist. Maybe placing in the over 45 Master's , at the State level...that would be a great accomplishment.

hey guys, I found a place that I love to ride, it is an 8 mile circut around a lake at a park named Kensington metro park in michigan, it has a good rolling hill set up, and man this one little sharp hill got my goat by the 3rd time around. One of the people I saw at the wednesday ride was there, a pretty woman whom I think recognized me as she smiled at me when I rode past her, wonder if she knows I couldnt even finish, lmao, I was only able to pass her, because we were riding the opposite directions, lol. Well I went around the circuit 3 times in an hour and forty five minutes.

OK, well no one answered my last set of questions, musta been to dumb.
got a couple more I need help with, not very good at doing research so when I looked I didnt find anything.

Questions:
while riding my thrid time around today my knee, just below the knee cap (not under the knee cap itself, but between the knee cap and lower leg bone) got knida stiff then a bit sore until I stopped riding, is this normal? or should I have it checked out.

the muscles across my shoulder blades and chest are actually very sore is this because I am not stretching enough?

when I used to ride, years ago, my coach made a big deal about trying to ride with my butt on the seat as much as possable, in other words dont stand up on the bike, work out the ride sitting down. He stated that it would build proper riding tecnique and endurance. This is what i have been doing, not standing up for any reason and shifting down as needed, now this was 24 years ago, so is this still true, or all hog wash, I have seen plenty of riders standing up on there bikes going up hills.

and last one. Just cerious, is it a bad thing to put something similar to ben gay or any other muscle soother when they are sore before going on a ride? or should I just rap overly sore muscles with a rap

EagleFlight said:

...while riding my thrid time around today my knee, just below the knee cap (not under the knee cap itself, but between the knee cap and lower leg bone) got knida stiff then a bit sore until I stopped riding, is this normal? or should I have it checked out.

the muscles across my shoulder blades and chest are actually very sore is this because I am not stretching enough?

when I used to ride, years ago, my coach made a big deal about trying to ride with my butt on the seat as much as possable, in other words dont stand up on the bike, work out the ride sitting down. He stated that it would build proper riding tecnique and endurance. This is what i have been doing, not standing up for any reason and shifting down as needed, now this was 24 years ago, so is this still true, or all hog wash, I have seen plenty of riders standing up on there bikes going up hills.

and last one. Just cerious, is it a bad thing to put something similar to ben gay or any other muscle soother when they are sore before going on a ride? or should I just rap overly sore muscles with a rap

With the knee and shoulder problem, it sounds like you need to have the fit of the bike checked/adjusted.

Regarding "never standing", while it is true that you should do most of your riding from a seated position, that does not mean you cannot stand a little to make some postural and seating adjustments. In fact, this may help your shoulder problem. Also don't be afraid to move your hands into different positions on the bars which will also help alleviate upper body stress. And finally, make a conscious effort to relax your upper body and arms. Too much upper body tension only takes energy away from your legs.

front knee problems typically mean that the cleats on your shoes are too far forward or backward i forget which. If you have clipless pedlas that is, I've had that problem and literally a little 1mm move made a difference. So make sure they are centered properly on the balls of your feet.

If you have normal pedals where you just stand on it then you may simply be placing your feet wrong on the pedal.

Another thing that will cause that knee pain is literally working too hard too much too quickly.

as for the back and chest it sounds like your position on the bike is either wrong or more likely, the bike is too small forcing you into a bad position

EagleFlight said:

hey guys, I found a place that I love to ride, it is an 8 mile circut around a lake at a park named Kensington metro park in michigan,

By the way, there is a race at kensington in the spring time - probably the toughest race in SE Michigan. As a little side note, the steepest average grade at kensington is only 8% (with one little short piece which is probably 12).

You may try sticking to flatter areas for a while until your joints get more used to riding. If you stick with it, you could try the race in the spring, but be prepared to suffer and probably get dropped. I lasted exactly two hills of a 7 lap race there before I was dropped (3 years ago) as a cat 5. I've gotten much better since then.

As I mentioned before, best bet would be to find a club to ride with. Where in SE MI do you live?

EagleFlight said:

I do have a couple questions:
Is it normal to be extremely hungry shortly after a big ride? if so, what do I do? fill up with wifes pasta? or shove alot of extra water down my throat.

I'm usually ravenous after a long ride. From what I've read, that's the time to eat simple carbs (pasta, etc) - in the first 1/2 hour or so the sugars go to quickly replace the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver. My routine is to sit down, have a jello with lots of water, maybe some gatoraide, then a normal meal. I'm in more of a weight loss mode than a get faster mode, so I consciously try to undercarborate myself a bit while getting enough fuel in the tank to be able to go again the next day.

EagleFlight said:

the things that hurt after my ride today.
1 "MMMYYY ARRSSSSS!!!!!!! (I put a soft card bourd on top of the chamois and it molded to the chamois inside and game me some help why didnt I feel this at 16? probably didnt have enough brains then)
2 my shoulder blade muscles (just stiff)
3 my upper legs (just stiff)
4 my calfs (a little painful when I walk, but mostly just stiff)
5 my EGO (feels like its been taken, beaten, run through the mud then dressed in a clown suit and handed back to me)
6 my pride? (DAMN PROUD OF MYSELF, HECK this is only the 5th day)

1. It'll get better - at first it seemed like the main advantage of LSD rides was to build butt-callouses! I still get a bit sore after a couple hours, but once I stop I'm fine. I do occassionaly pop up off the seat and make sure I'm riding on my sit-bones. Another thing I've noticed is that not all shorts are created equal - I've got one pair where the chamois doesn't want to stay under my sit-bones! You may want to try a couple different brands/styles.
2. That'll happen at first, too. As others have pointed out, make sure you adjust your posture once in a while - sometimes on the hoods, sometimes on the tops, etc. Also (again, as others have said) make sure your fit is good - you may have too much weight on your hands.

You should be proud of yourself!

thanks guys, as to where I live, I live in Farmington Hills MI. I drive every day after work to Kensington. About an hour and a half drive, because I come from detroit to get there (I work in Detroit)

I was thinking to really work this out into a schedule, to ride every other day for 3 laps around the 8.5 mile track as fast as I can and then on the other days (also every other day) to ride more relaxed for 3 to 4 hours, and as I get better to start upping ther laps and time on each set of days. Does this sound like a good system for building stamina as well as improve my biking skills?

Eagle,

I am not a trainer or coach but I have been riding religiously for the past 3 years. I will probably log 8000+ miles this year and raced Cat 5 since the beginning of this season for the first time.

The best advice I can give is this: The best way to start out is riding. Not fast, not trying to beat anyone, not trying to kill yourself. Base miles for the next 3 months is the best way to ride yourself into shape. Progressive increase in mileage, eating properly, getting plenty of rest. Listen to your body, if it says to rest then rest. If you do this, you will lose fat, gain muscle and riding will become easier and easier.

Sounds like you have all the desire to ride that you need.

EagleFlight said:

Does this sound like a good system for building stamina as well as improve my biking skills?

It doesn't sound ideal, but you will improve no matter what at this point. You should either buy several books on training/self coaching or pay a coach to help you improve. If you're planning on racing, Friel's "Cyclist's training Bible" while not perfect is a good starting point for the self coached athlete. The "Lance Armstrong" book is decent for beginners as well.

lederhosen said:

I don't mean to discourage you from training and pursuing your highest potential, but your goal (cycling in olympics) is most likely out of your reach. Consider these facts:
-riders in the olympic road race are mostly professionals, and most professionals have been practising endurance sports since their teens, and almost all of them are under 40 years old
-professionals train for about ~1000 hours a year (~20 hours a week), and have been doing so for many years
-professionals can average ~25 mph for many hours even when riding solo

Anyway, don't let this discourage you from riding and racing, but set your goals at a realistic and achievable level, and also remember to have both short and long term goals and keep on progressing.

the professionals have the disadvantage of having a lot of miles in their legs. like boxers, cyclists tend to only have a few years at their peak before deteriation sets in. if you are new to cycling and work and train properly and enter races to get the experience/battle scars then anything is possible. think positive, go for the olympics if that is your dream. if you don't make it ok, but think of the benefits you got out of trying (fitness, fun, new friends, etc.) never give up dreaming, without it life becomes very dull and repetitive.