This should be fun to watch

Bill C said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4341045.stm

GDR athletes sue over steroid damage

The 160 athletes - some of them only 10 at the time - are each claiming
damages of 10,000 Euros from Jenapharm, which produced the steroids on
behalf of the East German government.

Got to wonder if any of the former cyclists are involved in the
lawsuit.
If it's successful I wonder how long it'll take Tammy Thomas to sue?
Bill C

Maybe this is the same group (perhaps not) that was sueing some of the
former GDR sports federation officials. This was some years back, and
IIRC was primarily members of the nominally female 1976 olympic swim
team. Some of these women were really, really screwed up.

Steve

--
Cut the nonsense to reply

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4341045.stm

GDR athletes sue over steroid damage

The 160 athletes - some of them only 10 at the time - are each claiming
damages of 10,000 Euros from Jenapharm, which produced the steroids on
behalf of the East German government.

Got to wonder if any of the former cyclists are involved in the
lawsuit.
If it's successful I wonder how long it'll take Tammy Thomas to sue?
Bill C

Since she has claimed (testified?) that her abnormal testosterone values
were caused by birth control pills, it would be pretty impressive if she
could pull it off.

Steven Bornfeld said:

Bill C said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4341045.stm

GDR athletes sue over steroid damage

The 160 athletes - some of them only 10 at the time - are each

claiming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

damages of 10,000 Euros from Jenapharm, which produced the steroids

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

behalf of the East German government.

Got to wonder if any of the former cyclists are involved in the
lawsuit.
If it's successful I wonder how long it'll take Tammy Thomas to

sue?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bill C

Maybe this is the same group (perhaps not) that was sueing some of

the

Quoted message said:

former GDR sports federation officials. This was some years back,

and

Quoted message said:

IIRC was primarily members of the nominally female 1976 olympic swim
team. Some of these women were really, really screwed up.

Steve

--
Cut the nonsense to reply

I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about some
of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along due
to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really messed
up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people trash the
US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot of
them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of them had
anything good to say about their old government. There was huge support
for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about some
of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along due
to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really messed
up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people trash the
US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot of
them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of them had
anything good to say about their old government. There was huge support
for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
Bill C

Our government murders people from other countries for corporate profit, on
a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social and
environmental policies.

George Bush said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along

due

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really

messed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people trash

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of them

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anything good to say about their old government. There was huge

support

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
Bill C

Our government murders people from other countries for corporate

profit, on

Quoted message said:

a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social and
environmental policies.

Hey [censored]
Move to Cuba and try violently protesting the government like you did
in Seattle at the WTO. Have a great time in the Cuban prison for the
next 20 or 30 years.
Bill C

Bill C said:

George Bush said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along

due

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really

messed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people trash

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of them

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anything good to say about their old government. There was huge

support

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
Bill C

Our government murders people from other countries for corporate

profit, on

Quoted message said:

a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social and
environmental policies.

Hey [censored]
Move to Cuba and try violently protesting the government like you did
in Seattle at the WTO. Have a great time in the Cuban prison for the
next 20 or 30 years.
Bill C

Bill,

Your response is non-sequiter to the previous post. Geometry in 10th
grade was suppose to teach you logic.

And why is the other guy an [censored]?

Magilla

MagillaGorilla said:

Bill C said:

George Bush said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about

some

Quoted message said:

>of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along

due

Quoted message said:

>to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really

messed

Quoted message said:

>up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
>that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
>another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people

trash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

>US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
>paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot

of

Quoted message said:

>them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had

Quoted message said:

>anything good to say about their old government. There was huge

support

Quoted message said:

>for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
> Bill C
>

Our government murders people from other countries for corporate

profit, on

Quoted message said:

a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

environmental policies.

Hey [censored]
Move to Cuba and try violently protesting the government like you

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in Seattle at the WTO. Have a great time in the Cuban prison for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

next 20 or 30 years.
Bill C

Bill,

Your response is non-sequiter to the previous post. Geometry in 10th

Quoted message said:

grade was suppose to teach you logic.

And why is the other guy an [censored]?

Magilla

Actually it's not a non-sequiter, but it is reading into his
commentary a lot more than is actually stated. The comments are typical
of anarchist/leftist types. It was in response to my commenting that
people I know who had experience with the communist government in
Poland did not have good things to say about it. He was not supporting
them, as such. He was trashing our system. My inference was that he
finds our system inferior. I disagree. Our system is far from perfect,
but if you compare the economic, sociological, and environmental danage
that exists in the former eastern block to most western countries it's
not even close. There are large areas of Saxony that I am personally
familiar with that are basically open pit chemical cesspools from
indiscriminate use of mining technology that was controlled here in the
early 20th century. The human cost was, and still is being felt in
massive rates of cancer, birth defects, etc... and that was just one
area of one country which was just part of a systematic disregard for
the people that it was supposedly based on protecting and taking care
of.
I think he's an [censored] for not being aware of how good we have it in
both western Europe, and America compared to most of the world.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just found this but it highlights what I was saying perfectly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1436998,00.html

Blood and coal: the human cost of cheap Chinese goods

Jonathan Watts in Miaowan, Sha'anxi province
Monday March 14, 2005
The Guardian

"Someone has snitched. The security men are coming. Shut the door,
close the curtains and stay quiet."
Moments later, footsteps outside. A rap on the door. A mother squeezes
her child tightly to her breast to muffle his cries. An older woman
holds back sobs, her eyes red with tears. Two others sit on a bed,
exchanging anxious glances. It is my fault the security are here,
bringing trouble to people who have already suffered too much. But why
is a meeting between four middle-aged women and a foreign journalist
considered such a threat?

This is life in a communist country. Compare it to here.
Bill C

Third world people are oppressed at the hand of us 1st world people.
Slavery, poverty and exposure to toxic chemicals far worse than the steroids
you were speaking of are directly proportional to US and 1st WORLD
CONSUMERISM. We are the cause of much suffering throughout the world. I
don't defend this culture nor embrace it, nor do I deserve to be denigrated
because of my understanding.

Bill C said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Bill C said:

George Bush wrote:

>"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>
>
>>I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about

some

>>of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far along

due

>>to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really

messed

>>up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a sport
>>that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it is
>>another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people

trash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

>>US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
>>paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a lot

of

>>them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had

>>anything good to say about their old government. There was huge

support

>>for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
>>Bill C
>>
>
>Our government murders people from other countries for corporate

profit, on

>a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>environmental policies.

Hey [censored]
Move to Cuba and try violently protesting the government like you

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in Seattle at the WTO. Have a great time in the Cuban prison for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

next 20 or 30 years.
Bill C

Bill,

Your response is non-sequiter to the previous post. Geometry in 10th

Quoted message said:

grade was suppose to teach you logic.

And why is the other guy an [censored]?

Magilla

Actually it's not a non-sequiter, but it is reading into his
commentary a lot more than is actually stated. The comments are typical
of anarchist/leftist types. It was in response to my commenting that
people I know who had experience with the communist government in
Poland did not have good things to say about it. He was not supporting
them, as such. He was trashing our system. My inference was that he
finds our system inferior. I disagree. Our system is far from perfect,
but if you compare the economic, sociological, and environmental danage
that exists in the former eastern block to most western countries it's
not even close. There are large areas of Saxony that I am personally
familiar with that are basically open pit chemical cesspools from
indiscriminate use of mining technology that was controlled here in the
early 20th century. The human cost was, and still is being felt in
massive rates of cancer, birth defects, etc... and that was just one
area of one country which was just part of a systematic disregard for
the people that it was supposedly based on protecting and taking care
of.
I think he's an [censored] for not being aware of how good we have it in
both western Europe, and America compared to most of the world.
Bill C

Your response was non-sequiter because it failed to address the issue of
whether or not our government murders innocent people from other countries.

Magilla

"George Bush" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Our government murders people from other countries for corporate profit,
on
a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social and
environmental policies.

Let me guess, you actually think you're clever?

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The comments are typical of anarchist/leftist types.

Yeah, most of them get their entire education from Doonesbury comic strips.

"George Bush" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Third world people are oppressed at the hand of us 1st world people.

And you know this from your years of extensive travel in third world
countries.

Quoted message said:

Slavery, poverty and exposure to toxic chemicals far worse than the
steroids
you were speaking of are directly proportional to US and 1st WORLD
CONSUMERISM.

Now, you almost had us there until you demonstrated that you don't know [censored]
about anything. Slavery and poverty are the stuff that Liberals thrive on.
Why do you think that they hate Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice so much?

And of course the dumbest numbnuts in the world would know that the problem
in most of the third world isn't too much toxic chemicals but too few since
public health and farms are both decimated by disease carrying insects.

Speaking of which, why don't you go and lie down and dream of the beautiful
world there would be if only you had complete and absolute power.

MagillaGorilla said:

Bill C said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Bill C wrote:

>George Bush wrote:
>
>
>>"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>news:[email hidden]...
>>
>>
>>>I've seen some of the pictures and read the horror stories about
>
>some
>
>
>>>of the women who've had sex changes because they were so far

along

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>due
>
>
>>>to the testosterone and steroids they were fed. That is really
>
>messed
>
>
>>>up. If someone voluntarily screws themselves up to win at a

sport

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>that's one thing, but to have the government force you to do it

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>another totally. That's what really pisses me off when people

trash

Quoted message said:

>the
>
>
>>>US, but sing the praises of places like Cuba and other socialist
>>>paradises. This area used to have a huge Polish population, a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>of
>
>
>>>them with a love for Poland and connections to it. Very few of

them

Quoted message said:

>had
>
>
>>>anything good to say about their old government. There was huge
>
>support
>
>
>>>for Walesa and the Solidarity movement.
>>>Bill C
>>>
>>
>>Our government murders people from other countries for corporate
>
>profit, on
>
>
>>a very large scale. We won't even get into its domestic social

and

Quoted message said:

>>environmental policies.
>
>
> Hey [censored]
>Move to Cuba and try violently protesting the government like you

did

Quoted message said:

>in Seattle at the WTO. Have a great time in the Cuban prison for

the

Quoted message said:

>next 20 or 30 years.
>Bill C
>

Bill,

Your response is non-sequiter to the previous post. Geometry in

10th

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

grade was suppose to teach you logic.

And why is the other guy an [censored]?

Magilla

Actually it's not a non-sequiter, but it is reading into his
commentary a lot more than is actually stated. The comments are

typical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of anarchist/leftist types. It was in response to my commenting

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people I know who had experience with the communist government in
Poland did not have good things to say about it. He was not

supporting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them, as such. He was trashing our system. My inference was that he
finds our system inferior. I disagree. Our system is far from

perfect,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but if you compare the economic, sociological, and environmental

danage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that exists in the former eastern block to most western countries

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not even close. There are large areas of Saxony that I am

personally

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

familiar with that are basically open pit chemical cesspools from
indiscriminate use of mining technology that was controlled here in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

early 20th century. The human cost was, and still is being felt in
massive rates of cancer, birth defects, etc... and that was just

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

area of one country which was just part of a systematic disregard

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the people that it was supposedly based on protecting and taking

care

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of.
I think he's an [censored] for not being aware of how good we have it

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

both western Europe, and America compared to most of the world.
Bill C

Your response was non-sequiter because it failed to address the issue

of

Quoted message said:

whether or not our government murders innocent people from other

countries.

Quoted message said:

Magilla

Yep, and so does just about every other one unfortunately. Part of it
depends on what you call innocent too. Canada and a few of the european
countries might not but all the major players do, either through action
or inaction.
You really don't think global geo-politics is a clean game do you?
Bill C

George Bush said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just found this but it highlights what I was saying perfectly:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1436998,00.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Blood and coal: the human cost of cheap Chinese goods

Jonathan Watts in Miaowan, Sha'anxi province
Monday March 14, 2005
The Guardian

"Someone has snitched. The security men are coming. Shut the door,
close the curtains and stay quiet."
Moments later, footsteps outside. A rap on the door. A mother

squeezes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her child tightly to her breast to muffle his cries. An older woman
holds back sobs, her eyes red with tears. Two others sit on a bed,
exchanging anxious glances. It is my fault the security are here,
bringing trouble to people who have already suffered too much. But

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a meeting between four middle-aged women and a foreign

journalist

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

considered such a threat?

This is life in a communist country. Compare it to here.
Bill C

Let's take this point by point for the ignorant and brainwashed here.

Quoted message said:

Third world people are oppressed at the hand of us 1st world people.

Not going to argue that one because for the most part starting with
the first empires people have been exploiting others and if it isn't
from an external source it is frequently from an internal source.

Quoted message said:

Slavery

Was active long before there was a 1st world, and is still active long
after it has been outlawed in the 1st world. Mostly due to tribal,
sexual, and religous exploitation.

, poverty
Yep again see the oppression note.
and exposure to toxic chemicals far worse than the steroids
Yep did you see the stuff on the Chernobyl aftermath, pretty ugly.

Quoted message said:

you were speaking of are directly proportional to US and 1st WORLD
CONSUMERISM.

[censored] for the most part. The biggest tradgedy is the exloding
populations in the worlds poorest countries. These countries for the
most part are unable to feed and care for the current populations so
adding to them in a geometric progression is not a good thing. Nature
is a brutally self correcting system. We have created an artificial
environment at the lowest possible denominator by supporting this
population explosion. Until the first world started artificially making
it possible for populations to outgrow their resources this was
impossible.

Quoted message said:

We are the cause of much suffering throughout the world.

Sorry I refuse to jump into your collective guilt pool. What's in the
past is done and can't be changed now we need to help these countries
become successful in the global economy. They are going through a lot
of the same predictable economic and cultural stages every devoloped
society has had to go through.

Quoted message said:

don't defend this culture nor embrace it,

What are you doing using a computer? Do you own a car? Did you take
advantage of a 1st world culture to attain an education? Do you use
modern health care? Safe food supply from the supermarket or do you
hunt and grow your own? Built your own residence? How far back do we go
in the 1st world? At what level, and how do we cap the aspirations for
a better life from people in the developing world? Do we use force to
deny them consumer goods and medicines that are based on 1st world
research?

Quoted message said:

nor do I deserve to be denigrated
because of my understanding.

No you deserve to be denigrated for your complete and total lack of
understanding how the world really works, and your complete devotion to
propaganda. Your kind have great intentions, tons of [censored], lot's of
hatred, but very few workable solutions.
That's why I'm denigrating you. Now I know you wont thank me for
making you actually think about the issues because you already have all
the answers. Because you got them from your tenured professor who makes
$100,000 a year and claims to be a man of the people but that's OK
because those of us actually being productive and supporting the system
you despise provided for that education that you got so you should
thank us for that too.
Get over yourself, stop spouting rhetoric, and really take a hard look
at the incredibly complex and delicate system that makes this world go
around and you'll start to find some real workable answers for some of
the problems, but until humans evolve into a better species ther aren't
going to good answers for a lot of things.
Bill C

On 03/13/2005 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The comments are typical of anarchist/leftist types.

Yeah, most of them get their entire education from Doonesbury comic strips.

Which thankfully is much more intelligent than your hero, Mallard Fillmore.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

dude, with an email like yours, you must be on some kind of terrorist
watch list.

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 03/13/2005 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The comments are typical of anarchist/leftist types.

Yeah, most of them get their entire education from Doonesbury comic
strips.

Which thankfully is much more intelligent than your hero, Mallard
Fillmore.

Which goes to prove my point. Those with the least idea of how the world
works are most vocal about changing it.