This Land (Wales)

The message <[email hidden]>
from Andy Harbach <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

For those of us in Wales the program "This Land" featuring Snowdonia which was shown on Friday in
England is to be shown on Tuesday at 7:30
p.m. on BBC2 Wales.

I may have mis heard her but I am sure one contributor claimed she chose Snowdonia as it was the
most rugged area in Britain. To me at least it is debatable whether Snowdonia is any more rugged
than The Lake District and neither are a match for parts of the Highlands.

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight

Andy Harbach writes

Quoted message said:

For those of us in Wales the program "This Land" featuring Snowdonia which was shown on Friday in
England is to be shown on Tuesday at 7:30
p.m. on BBC2 Wales.

You should try to resist watching it. The total lack of a Welsh accent will have you reaching for
the matches. Sorry. That was in bad taste. But as a half Welsh person, I thought it a tads rich.
There was even a patronising comment about 'locals' who never go up the mountains.

--
Trevor Dennis Remove s-p-a-m to email

In article <[email hidden]>, Trevor Dennis <[email hidden]-
m.fsnet.co.uk> writes

Quoted message said:

You should try to resist watching it. The total lack of a Welsh accent will have you reaching for
the matches.

I agree about the significant lack of Welsh accents - I recollect only one local (and wasn't really
sure about that one).

Outwith that deficiency, however, I enjoyed the programme. There was plenty of attractive /
atmospheric filming, and I certainly empathised with the sentiments and opinions of the various
walkers, climbers, mountain rescuers, photographers and archaeologists about their lives in
Snowdonia.

There's an interesting cultural difference between Snowdonia and the Lake District with respect to
recreation in the outdoors. In the Lakes there are widespread traditions of endurance fell running
and short, fast hill-races - activities generated by local people. There is nothing similar in
Snowdonia where most fell running among expats. and locals has its origins in the growth of the
sport in the 1970s/80s.

I don't know why that should be so - the environments and economies were/are very similar.

OTOH, am I right in thinking that local rock climbing pioneers in the Lakes, like Bill Peascod,
were not generally Fells people but were coming in from the industrial west coast towns of Barrow
and Workington etc. Rather like the Peak District activists from Sheffield as personified by Eric
Byne and co.

----

Russ Clare

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

OTOH, some of us with no trace of a Welsh accent love living here and are making the effort to
learn the language.

As someone who is all too familiar with hearing a Welsh accent -
S.Wales that is, the accent in N. Wales is "sometimes" tainted with the Scouse accent which can
render it quite alien to a "Welsh" accent.

--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Russ Clare <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I agree about the significant lack of Welsh accents - I recollect only one local (and wasn't really
sure about that one).

Outwith that deficiency, however, I enjoyed the programme.

Fair comment. Compared with other programmes that promised to be interesting but failed, at least
this one die show some lovely shots of Snowdon - not forgetting the train ;-)

I knew little about the mines in the area, so this was quite good.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Paul Saunders writes

Quoted message said:

Trevor Dennis wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But as a half Welsh person,

Really? Which bit?

My mum comes from Llanidloes. I have relatives scattered all over mid Wales.

--
Trevor Dennis Remove s-p-a-m to email

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Tainted? Tainted!!!????? The word is 'Enhanced'!!!

I think I mis-spelled tainted it should have been "tinted" .......................................or
"stained",

We won't fall out over the choice of words - let's agree on "coloured"

(runs & ducks)
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, W. D. Grey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

the accent in N. Wales is "sometimes" tainted with the Scouse accent which can render it quite
alien to a "Welsh" accent.

An interesting comment, Bill. Though I've spent a fair amount of time in N. Wales, I have not
noticed this before.

However, as I listened to one interviewee on the programme - AFAICR she was a National Park Ranger -
I thought, ah she's from Wales, and then, no perhaps she's from Liverpool.
----

Russ Clare

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Andy Harbach writes

Quoted message said:

For those of us in Wales the program "This Land" featuring Snowdonia which was shown on Friday in
England is to be shown on Tuesday at 7:30
p.m. on BBC2 Wales.

You should try to resist watching it. The total lack of a Welsh accent will have you reaching for
the matches. Sorry. That was in bad taste. But as a half Welsh person, I thought it a tads rich.
There was even a patronising comment about 'locals' who never go up the mountains.

OTOH, some of us with no trace of a Welsh accent love living here and are making the effort to learn
the language. As for the comment about locals not taking to the hills, I doubt if it's all that far
from the truth, any more than it is for Londoners who have never visited St Paul's Cathedral, the
Monument, or the Palace of Westminster. None of my friends here in the Rhondda would dream of
walking up any of the lovely hills that surround me; the only reason most of them would even bother
driving up is for the ice cream van at the top.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Trevor Dennis said:

You should try to resist watching it.

I doubt I'll resist.

Quoted message said:

The total lack of a Welsh accent will have you reaching for the matches. Sorry. That was in
bad taste.

I thought it was funny.

Quoted message said:

But as a half Welsh person,

Really? Which bit?

Quoted message said:

I thought it a tads rich.

Well, how many locals know about the mountains anyway? ;-)

Quoted message said:

There was even a patronising comment about 'locals' who never go up the mountains.

Well it might be patronising but it's quite true on the whole. Most people in Swansea have never
climbed a mountain in their lives and probably never will. Far away places such as Spain seem to
have a strange appeal whenever holidays are mentioned, but few hereabouts would ever consider
visiting the Brecon Beacons, let alone actually walking up any of them. The Gower is popular though,
but only the beaches.

The fact is that most "locals" are not "walkers" (for want of a better term) and are certainly not
"mountain climbers". Personally I don't understand the almost complete lack of interest in local
scenery (other than beaches - most people seem to have an inexplicable fascination with sand), but
that's just the way it is. In contrast, most people find my tendency to go camping up mountains in
the middle of winter to be totally crazy,

It's just as well really, isn't it? After all, if all the locals spent their time wandering up their
local hills there'd be no solitude up there, the outdoors would be like the middle of Piccadily
Circus and the town centres would be empty.

Just be grateful that most people prefer shopping in preference to the icy bite of an October
breeze, and sitting down in front of the television instead of the physical effort of a 2000ft
ascent. It's good that most locals leave the hills to us. By us I mean the "outdoor community", with
whom I feel more affinity than my next door neighbours.

Although I admit to feeling a certain patriotism to my mother country, I feel more comfortable
chatting to a fellow hillwalker (be he or she from England, the US or Australia) than a fellow Welsh
person who has no interest in such things. Not that I have anything against my fellow countrymen,
but nor do I have anything against anyone of any other nationality. Racism is so lame.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Roger Chapman said:

To me at least it is debatable whether Snowdonia is any more rugged than The Lake District

I always thought it was, but that's just judging by all the photographs I've seen, not personal
experience of the Lake District.

Is there anything comparable to the Rhinogs in the Lake District? Anything comparable to the Snowdon
Horseshoe? I don't think they have any Tryfans, do they?

I'm not suggesting there's much difference, just a small difference, but I may be wrong.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Roger Chapman said:

I may have mis heard her but I am sure one contributor claimed she chose Snowdonia as it was the
most rugged area in Britain.

Her exact words were these; "Snowdonia is different to other parts of Britain, it is a more rugged
landscape, but it's still impressive, and it's still really beautiful."

It seems odd to say that it's rugged *but* it's still impressive. Why would these be incompatible?
One is the reason for the other.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Really? I would have said "different to".

Yes. Similar to, different from.

BTW "none "is singular. How often do we hear remarks such as "None were injured" from folk who
should know better.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Paul Saunders said:

Roger Chapman said:

To me at least it is debatable whether Snowdonia is any more rugged than The Lake District

I always thought it was, but that's just judging by all the photographs I've seen, not personal
experience of the Lake District.

Is there anything comparable to the Rhinogs in the Lake District?

Hmmm. In the sense that not many people go there The back o Skiddaw. OTH as in rough heather girt
lumps of rock then the Dunnerdale Fells is the closest I can think of.

Quoted message said:

Anything comparable to the Snowdon Horseshoe?

Striding Edge Helvelyn Swirral edge Catstye Cam, Kentmere Horseshoe, Buttermere Horseshoe, Langdale
(Mickleden + Oxendale) Horseshoe

Quoted message said:

I don't think they have any Tryfans, do they?

Pillar, Scafell, err... doh! Bowfell.

Quoted message said:

I'm not suggesting there's much difference, just a small difference, but I may be wrong.

The major difference is that they don't suddenly pretend they can only speak Welsh when you walk in
a local shop. :-)

You'll have to go there one day Paul.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To me at least it is debatable whether Snowdonia is any more rugged than The Lake District

Quoted message said:

I always thought it was, but that's just judging by all the photographs I've seen, not personal
experience of the Lake District.

Phil has beaten me to it so I will try and be brief. :-)

Quoted message said:

Is there anything comparable to the Rhinogs in the Lake District? Anything comparable to the
Snowdon Horseshoe? I don't think they have any Tryfans, do they?

I suspect that if the heather on the Rhinogs was managed they would be much easier to walk over.
They are not particularly rugged in the sense of acres of steep exposed rock. The ELD has a goodly
number of large crags but not much unmanaged heather.

Pillar Rock is probably the closest match to Tryfan. A rock climbing Mecca in the old days when
climbers were prepared to walk a considerable distance for a good climb. It is a pity it doesn't
have the degree of separation from Pillar that Tryfan enjoys from Glyder Fach. But in another
very important aspect it differs from Tryfan, no way can you just walk up it. Lower down the
ranks even the summit of Helm Crag, a mere 1299 feet AMSL, is considerably harder it attain than
the tip of Tryfan.

Quoted message said:

I'm not suggesting there's much difference, just a small difference, but I may be wrong.

I may be biased. I started hill walking in The Lake District as a child. I don't think I got to
North Wales before 1960 (just a year before we went to Scotland for the first time) by which time I
would have enjoyed, in total, some 4 or 5 months in The Lakes. So you will just have to go and see
for yourself. :-)

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Her exact words were these; "Snowdonia is different to other parts

[...]"

Her *exact* words? Are you sure? 'Cos if you are, she deserves a brickbat for appalling grammar.
"Different to" indeed. It should be "different *from*", and she should know that. Humph.

--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Phil Cook said:

You'll have to go there one day Paul.

He must. I'm fairly familiar with both, and I'd say the Lakes has more to offer in every way than
Snowdonia - which is in no way a criticism of Snowdonia.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

You'll have to go there one day Paul.

Seconded. The week I was in the LD was too short, and that was without doing any walking. The whole
area is beautiful, and I'm angling for another holiday there next year when Emily's old enough to
walk further, I'm hopefully a bit fitter, and the older children will be old enough to do their own
thing if they don't want to walk.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

OTOH, some of us with no trace of a Welsh accent love living here and are making the effort to
learn the language.

As someone who is all too familiar with hearing a Welsh accent -
S.Wales that is, the accent in N. Wales is "sometimes" tainted with the Scouse accent which can
render it quite alien to a "Welsh" accent.

Tainted? Tainted!!!????? The word is 'Enhanced'!!!

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 114
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗